Manny to Mets Rumors Rear Their Hideous Heads . . . Again

[Guest Rotblatt]

Alterternately, this could be placed in the "Worst Trade Proposol Ever" Thread.

From the Boston Herald:

]The centerpiece of the deal, coming from the Mets’ side, would be center fielder Mike Cameron and two of the following three prospects: outfielder Lastings Milledge and right-handers Aaron Heilman and Yusmeiro Petit.

They're desperate to move Manny at this point. He's gone so far as to say that he wouldn't report to Spring Training unless he gets moved. We're one of the few teams that can afford him.

Why the fuck would we give up two of the best prospects in baseball for a declining slugger owed over $60M?

For that much, we should be getting someone like Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard--cheap(er), good production, young and FILLS A HOLE IN OUR LINEUP. I mean, what are we going to do with two left fielders? Three, if you include Diaz, who hasn't proved he's competent in right.

We should laugh at Lucchino, tell everyone who'll listen that the Sox are living in la-la land, then wait for him to call us back.

FWIW, my idea of a decent trade would be Cameron + one of Zambrano or Trachsel + 2nd-tier prospect (maybe Diaz or Hernandez).

If we get Shoppach back, we throw in cash and a third-tier prospect.

[Elster88]

I really don't want to go through this again. Can't we just link to that other thread? All of the conversation about pretty much exact same deal has been played out. It'll save some time.

[smg58]

The Manny rumors won't go away until he's actually dealt somewhere. The price suggested here is too steep, but if the Red Sox are that desperate to deal -- and so far, I can't trust the accuracy of anything being reported -- the price should come down far below this level.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]I really don't want to go through this again. Can't we just link to that other thread? All of the conversation about pretty much exact same deal has been played out. It'll save some time.

I couldn't actually find a "Manny Only" thread, although I did find a poll entitled "Alternatives to Manny" so there must have been one at some point. Of course, I just searched for the word "Manny," though, so if someone got clever in the naming, I might have missed it.

I can move this into the A-P thread, but I figured this merited its own thread.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Make this the Manny thread.

I wouldn't yet call Petit one of the best prospects in baseball, though Milledge qualifies.

And, yeah, I'm ag'in' this deal.

[metirish]

I'm so sick of this Manny talk, like most are I'm sure, sure I wouldn't say no to him but it seems the price is high, no need for Omar to go crazy here, he should be playing the Sox,wait them out and see what you can get him for.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Playin' Hardball at the GM meetings.

Red Sox: "Ramirez for Milledge, Heilman, Cameron, and Petit!"

Mets: "How about Ramirez for Felix Hereida?"

Red Sox: "Please. How about Ramirez for Milledge, Heilman, Cameron, and Bannister?"

Mets: "How about Ramirez for a scorecard from Pedro's last shutout? Would you like one of those? Which one of you four guys am I dealing with anyhow?"

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I want Manny only if he comes ridiculously cheap, and if he don;t he don't.

If the Red Sox come with that offer, Omar should just cue a laugh track until they come down. Way down.

[metirish]

LOL.....ok ok the Sox aren't that desperate yet......could be come Feburary though.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Mets really are in a good situation right now and should let teams come to them.

[MFS62]

If they're that anxious to rid themselves of him and his big salary, if I were Omar I'd start the negotiations by offering Prentice Redman, Craig Brazell and Heredia.

When you have them by the,er, wallets, their hearts and minds will follow.

Later

[Willets Point]

The Point-Petit family are strongly against this trade. The nice thing is that Yusmeiro is desirable since his name comes up in every freaking trade proposal.

[Vic Sage]

- Cameron, Trax & V. Diaz (+ Bannister, if they include Shoppach)

We take on the 3 remaining years of Manny's contract (with all its cost, potential risk and potential reward), without sacrificing either the future or the present,

Boston gets rid of huge payroll obligation/problem-child who wants out, and they get a desperately needed solid SPer, a solid CFer to replace Damon, and a young bat with some promise. They can also have a 2nd tier pitching prospect like Bannister if they include Shoppach.

I'd also have to consider including Petit instead of Bannister + V.Diaz (since I don't have much confidence in AA pitchers), but any deal for Manny that includes Milledge should be laughed at.

As for dealing for "need" and "position"... thats a crock. The Mets have a DESPERATE need for a .300/30hr/120rbi bat in the middle of the lineup. He can play LF, and Cliff can either move to RF or 1B (both of which he's played before, adequately). If you can get a bat like Manny's, you shouldn't concern yourself overmuch with, of all things, LF DEFENSE!

[Guest Rotblatt]

="Vic Sage"]As for dealing for "need" and "position"... thats a crock. The Mets have a DESPERATE need for a .300/30hr/120rbi bat in the middle of the lineup. He can play LF, and Cliff can either move to RF or 1B (both of which he's played before, adequately). If you can get a bat like Manny's, you shouldn't concern yourself overmuch with, of all things, LF DEFENSE!

Well, it was actually RF defense I was worried about (although Manny's defense at LF is marginally troubling to me, as is his age & baserunning--all outweighed by his bat so far), but I think you missed my bigger point, which is that if we're going to give up that much, we shouldn't have to move people out of position--we should get exactly what we need handed to us on a silver platter.

IMO, exactly what we need = Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard.

[nymr83]

maybe we should start a new Armando-bashing thread too, they're going to be far outnumbered by Manny threads soon.

i doubt Howard is available. if Dunn is i want him now and at whatever cost (in prospects and cash.) Milledge and Pettit? Diaz, Petit, and Bannister?

[Frayed Knot]

"at whatever cost" is a phrase that'll get you into trouble almost every time.

Which is what's at the heart of any potential Manny story.
No one wants to say no to that kind of bat. It's just when it comes to taking the whole package: the defense, the money still owed, the options beyond that, the baserunning, discipline and concentration lapses that make Manny so infuriating to his current employer, then there is a cost at which you say no and walk away.
And that goes for Manny, Wagner, Dunn or whoever.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I also fear a pursuit of Jim Thome.

[metsmarathon]

cameron, trax, and diaz i could live more comfortably with.

cameron, heilman, and petit/milledge, not so much at all.

granted, i like cameron, so i think i'd prolly lean the most towards an HBO position. until we can work them down to diaz and trax, with no cammy, that is.

[nymr83]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I also fear a pursuit of Jim Thome.

Mo Vaughn part II. I hope they'll stay away.

[Elster88]

He was hurt, yes. But he doesn't weigh 350 lbs., either. Why all the hate? A slugging lefty first baseman? Hmmmm....

Staying away from Thome because of Mo was like when Fred got gunshy after Mo/Burnitz/Alomar and refused to go after Vlad. Speaking of Vladdy Daddy, how does everyone feel about his back these days? (No, I will not get over it.)

[Centerfield]

If Vlad were here there would be all this talk about how he can't handle playing in New York because of his struggles in the post-season.

"I can't describe it man, it just takes something extra to handle the pressure of playing in New York and this guy clearly doesn't have it."

[Elster88]

That's all well and good. It would still be nice to be hearing Met-related playoff discussion, even one as assinine as the one you describe.

[smg58]

Centerfield wrote: If Vlad were here there would be all this talk about how he can't handle playing in New York because of his struggles in the post-season. "I can't describe it man, it just takes something extra to handle the pressure of playing in New York and this guy clearly doesn't have it."

But that would mean we were actually IN the postseason!

Give me some idea how healthy Thome is and I'll tell you if he's worth pursuing. Given how the Phillies didn't return our calls when they shopped Schilling, I'd be nervous if they were eager to talk to us here. I'd be a lot less nervous about Thome if they also start shopping Ryan Howard, but I consider that a very remote possibility.

Dunn's home/road splits aren't quite as scary as Soriano's, but they concern me enough that I wouldn't consider emptying the farm system, or even giving one of Milledge or Petit, for him (.221 BA, 14 HR, .805 OPS on the road this year; .230 BA, 46 HR, .835 OPS on the road from 02 to 04). He could turn into Burnitz (with more walks being the only difference) very easily.

[Frayed Knot]

I'd be more cautious about getting Thome than I would about Manny.
He's almost as expensive per/year and is nearly 2 years older. He also Ks more, hits for a lower average, runs slower (even if more enthusiastically), doesn't have appreciably more power, and is about on the same place on the defensive spectrum.

[MFS62]

The Many rumor came up again this morning, along with my breakfast, when I was listening to the 20-20 update on ESPN Radio.
The announcer said there is talk about a "3 team deal that would bring Manny to the Mets". But then he gave no details.

Has anyone else heard or read the details of this rumored deal?

Later

[Guest sharpie]

Could involve the D-Rays which would be the nexus of 2 threads.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Funny note, the national ESPN guy mentioned it as the Mets talking to the DRays about Baes and Huff for part of the three way and when it was picked up by the local guy, he made it sound that the deal was geared towards accquiring Baes for the bullpen!

In other words, yet another reason not to listen to 20/20 speculations

[Vic Sage]

]Well, it was actually RF defense I was worried about (although Manny's defense at LF is marginally troubling to me, as is his age & baserunning--all outweighed by his bat so far),

Why would moving Floyd to RF, where he was a starter for the Marlins just a few years ago, create a RF defense to worry about? He was practically a gold-glover this year, with a great number of assists. Do you really think he'd be such a defensive LIABILITY in RF as to be any factor at all in whether or not to acquire Manny's bat? Yes, Manny in LF is troublesome, but as i said, you don't necessarily pass on a bat like his because you're concerned about LF DEFENSE!

]but I think you missed my bigger point, which is that if we're going to give up that much, we shouldn't have to move people out of position--we should get exactly what we need handed to us on a silver platter.

I don't think giving up Cammy, Trax and Diaz (which was MY proposal), is giving up so much that we need to be too concerned about Cliff's move back to RF.

]IMO, exactly what we need = Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard.

well, i'd agree, of course. They're both young, relatively inexpensive and highly productive. But that's precisely why i don't think we could get either of those guys without giving up significantly more than we might have to for an older, very expensive headcase.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]I don't think giving up Cammy, Trax and Diaz (which was MY proposal)

Or was it . . . MINE?

]FWIW, my idea of a decent trade would be Cameron + one of Zambrano or Trachsel + 2nd-tier prospect (maybe Diaz or Hernandez).

-Rotblatt, first post in thread.

]Why would moving Floyd to RF, where he was a starter for the Marlins just a few years ago, create a RF defense to worry about? He was practically a gold-glover this year, with a great number of assists. Do you really think he'd be such a defensive LIABILITY in RF as to be any factor at all in whether or not to acquire Manny's bat? Yes, Manny in LF is troublesome, but as i said, you don't necessarily pass on a bat like his because you're concerned about LF DEFENSE!

Chill out, dude. We're on the exact same page. Well, not exactly, because I'm marginally concerned about Manny's defense, baserunning and diva-ness, but we both think his bat outweighs any potential problems and both think the alleged proposal in the article stunk.

Let's agree to agree, shall we?

[Guest HappyRecap]

tired of thinking of him as a Met, let alone discussing him.

Whatever they give up, if they do a deal, will be too much.

HappyRecap