Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 8 candidates announced for the ballot:Barry BondsRoger ClemensCarlos DelgadoJeff KentDon MattinglyDale MurphyGary SheffieldFernando ValenzuelaBallot was selected by 11-member panel of baseball historians.A 16-member committee (composition not yet announced) will meet in December. 12 votes needed for election. Fewer than 5 votes means a candidate is ineligible for the next Contemporary Era ballot in 2029. Garnering fewer than 5 votes on two Contemporary Era Ballots (e.g., if they return in 2032 and again get <5 votes again) they are ineligible for further HOF consideration.
Marshmallowmilkshake Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 Lou Whitaker denied again. Would rather see him on there than the PED users.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 Most interesting to me would be finding out who is on this committee. Back-door committees should probably be made up entirely of Hall-of-Famers (it's their club, in the end), but they tend to make them hybrids of Hall members, executives, and veteran/retired writers.
Cowtipper Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 There seems to be a trend toward electing at least one guy per committee lately (last shutout was 2016) and two seems the most common number electees in this most recent run of elections (2017-today) so I expect two will be elected. If more modern guys are on the committee, I could see more lenience toward the steroid guys.
MFS62 Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 One more thing to be considered. Diaper Don has said that Clemens belongs in the hall. (They've played golf together). And since some ballplayers (and other possible voters Edgy mentioned) tend to be conservative, that might sway their votes toward the fat coward, bat tosser getting in.Later
stevejrogers Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 Valenzuela seems like a lock.I can see Delgado, Mattingly or Murphy barely getting enough votes to get in.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 Why do you think Fernando is a lock?He has a cultural significance, and that is not nothing, but just sticking to Met-related lefthanders, it is hard to argue that Jerry Koosman, Frank Viola, and Johan Santana didn't all have stronger overall careers. (OE: Frank Tanana, too, while I am working within that subset.)He was a better hitter than all of them, and a better fielder than all of them save Santana, but even so.
MFS62 Old-Timey Member Posted November 3, 2025 Posted November 3, 2025 Are we voting for who we think might get elected or who we would vote for if we were voting them into the hall? I voted the latter. Later
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted November 4, 2025 Author Posted November 4, 2025 Most interesting to me would be finding out who is on this committee. I believe it’s announced closer to the vote. An additional wrinkle is that each committee member can only vote for 3 players.By way of reference, the “classic era” committee that elected Allen and Parker was:Hall of Fame Players (5): Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Tony Perez, Lee Smith, Ozzie SmithHall of Fame Managers (1): Joe TorreExecutives (5): Sandy Alderson, Terry McGuirk, Dayton Moore, Arte Moreno, Brian SabeanMedia/Historians (5): Bob Elliott, Leslie Heaphy, Steve Hirdt, Dick Kaegel and Larry Lester.
stevejrogers Old-Timey Member Posted November 4, 2025 Posted November 4, 2025 Why do you think Fernando is a lock?He has a cultural significance, and that is not nothing, but just sticking to Met-related lefthanders, it is hard to argue that Jerry Koosman, Frank Viola, and Johan Santana didn't all have stronger overall careers. (OE: Frank Tanana, too, while I am working within that subset.)He was a better hitter than all of them, and a better fielder than all of them save Santana, but even so. Feels like there has been a groundswell of late, seems like he’s on the Dick Allen track, getting his number retired, and sadly it would be a posthumous induction.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted November 4, 2025 Posted November 4, 2025 Dick Allen has a track!Four other Met-related lefthanders occurred to me last night, each with non-HoF pitching careers that were probably stronger, if less celebrated, than Fernando's: John Candeleria, Jon Matlack, Mickey Lolich, Kenny Rogers. Not that I would complain to see him in, but Sandy Koufax he was not.
Fman99 Old-Timey Member Posted November 4, 2025 Posted November 4, 2025 Rooting against Clemens and Bonds because eff those guys
Benjamin Grimm Old-Timey Member Posted November 4, 2025 Posted November 4, 2025 Rooting against Clemens and Bonds because eff those guys Yup!
Cowtipper Old-Timey Member Posted November 5, 2025 Posted November 5, 2025 I don't see a case for Valenzuela, unless you really emphasize the more intangible and less-stat heavy "fame" and "story" and "legend" angles of the Hall of Fame (a la Catfish Hunter), however I support all the rest and voted for everyone but Valenzuela.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted December 2, 2025 Author Posted December 2, 2025 The 16 voters have been announced:HOF PlayersFerguson JenkinsJim KaatJuan MarichalTony PerezOzzie SmithAlan TrammellRobin YountOwnersMark AttanasioArte MorenoExecutivesDoug MelvinKim NgTony ReagansTerry RyanOthersTyler KepnerJayson StarkSteve Hirdt (former EVP, Elias Sports Bureau)Of note, Stark is on record having voted for Bonds and Clemens when they were on the writers’ ballot. Kepner has taken the position that the period before PED testing/suspension is different that the 2004 and later process, and thus did not vote for Ramirez or Rodriguez in recent years because of their PED suspensions.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted December 3, 2025 Posted December 3, 2025 I don't see a case for Valenzuela, unless you really emphasize the more intangible and less-stat heavy "fame" and "story" and "legend" angles of the Hall of Fame (a la Catfish Hunter), however I support all the rest and voted for everyone but Valenzuela. Catfish had all that, and climbed the magic 200-victory summit.Pitching wins are certainly a deceptive stat, and plenty of guys with fewer victories probably had stronger careers, but that seems to be a threshold that matters to voters.
Cowtipper Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Jeff Kent was elected. Good choice. More than good enough to have been elected by the BBWAA.
stevejrogers Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Kent got in with 14 votesDelgado was next with 9, Mattingly and Murphy tied with 6, and the other four had fewer than 5 votes.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Holy ****! The Mets traded a Hall-of-Famer for Carlos Baerga!
Marshmallowmilkshake Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 I’m stunned Kent got more votes than Murphy and Mattingly. I also don’t see a path for Clemens or Bonds anytime soon. This was probably their best shot and they weren’t even close.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Dale Murphy & Don Mattingly had HoF first half of their careers but not second halves.People should stop insisting that half a HoF career is enough to get someone in.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 It appears Fernando Valenzuela wasn't so much a lock as all of that.The path for Bonds and Clemens is still open as Manny Ramirez (for one last year, anyhow) and Alex Rodriguez remain on the BBWAA ballot, and in an otherwise weak year, they could certainly break through.If and when one such character breaks through, it likely becomes a breach in the seawall keeping all PED violators out.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Author Posted December 8, 2025 If and when one such character breaks through, it likely becomes a breach in the seawall keeping all PED violators out. And yet the stunning hypocrisy of electing Bud Selig doesn’t seem to have caused such breach.
stevejrogers Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 It appears Fernando Valenzuela wasn't so much a lock as all of that. Yeah, I guess after reading, or listening to the audiobook, of Daybreak At Chavez Ravine, a bio on Fernando that really put forward a case of him being a “Johnny Appleseed” like figure for Latin America, and specifically the Mexican market as being enough to put him in, I thought there must be some groundswell of support from the “its the hall of FAME (ie notoriety should be as equal of a reason for induction as overall counting statistics)” and intangibles crowd.Then you had the Dodgers officially putting #34 in mothballs, which I took as a similar “GET WITH THE PROGRAM COOPERSTOWN” as with the number retirement ceremonies for Phil Rizzuto, Ron Santo and Dick Allen. Though obviously, sadly now it was pretty much “give him the Jim Gilliam treatment while he is completely able to fully take part in, and appreciate the honor, instead of AFTER his passing.”
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 If and when one such character breaks through, it likely becomes a breach in the seawall keeping all PED violators out. And yet the stunning hypocrisy of electing Bud Selig doesn’t seem to have caused such breach. Who is supposed to get through the Bud Selig breach? George Steinbrenner and George W. Bush? Or maybe Marvin Miller?I figure that the standard is already established with commissioners. If you last for twenty years or more, by hook or by crook, you are likely to get in. It's too embarrassing for baseball, keeping around somebody for that long while acknowledging that he wasn't such a special figure after all, so they pretend he is.
Centerfield Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Holy ****! The Mets traded a Hall-of-Famer for Carlos Baerga! It's funny to me that this trade isn't cited in any list of worst Mets trades of all time. Trading a future Hall of Famer for a washed up Carlos Baerga has to be up there. I think part of it is because it was so well received at the time, and it took us a while for us to realize how bad the trade was. Though in fairness, we should have known right away. Kent hit 29 HRS the year after the trade and never looked back. Stayed productive until almost 40 Baerga was washed up at 27.Craziness.
stevejrogers Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 Holy ****! The Mets traded a Hall-of-Famer for Carlos Baerga! It's funny to me that this trade isn't cited in any list of worst Mets trades of all time. Trading a future Hall of Famer for a washed up Carlos Baerga has to be up there. I think part of it is because it was so well received at the time, and it took us a while for us to realize how bad the trade was. Though in fairness, we should have known right away. Kent hit 29 HRS the year after the trade and never looked back. Stayed productive until almost 40 Baerga was washed up at 27.Craziness. True, but Alfonzo’s emergence, though at third not his usual second, did take the sting out of it.FWIW, I saw a journalist on BlueSky/Facebook remind followers of the domestic abuse injury that the “truck washing incident” was a cover story for. While I think that was as a Giant, not a Met, there is for sure more of a “bullet dodged” feeling with him that also overrides a ****** ass return for trading him.
MFS62 Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Posted December 8, 2025 The Mets got Baerga for Kent, after they had acquired Kent for David Cone.Later
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted December 8, 2025 Author Posted December 8, 2025 It's funny to me that this trade isn't cited in any list of worst Mets trades of all time. Trading a future Hall of Famer for a washed up Carlos Baerga has to be up there. I think part of it is because it was so well received at the time, and it took us a while for us to realize how bad the trade was. Though in fairness, we should have known right away. Kent hit 29 HRS the year after the trade and never looked back. Stayed productive until almost 40 Baerga was washed up at 27.Craziness. You sort of answer your own question here. Kent’s WAR and OPS+ in New York:1992: 0.4, 91 (37 games after being traded from Toronto)1993: 0.3, 106 (140 games)1994: 2.7, 111 (107 games, strike year)1995: 3.2, 110 (125 games)1996: 1.7, 105 (89 games before being traded)Those are…not Hall of Fame numbers. And as you note, Baerga dropping off a cliff at 27 is not exactly the standard age curve for previously productive major leaguers.This is much more of a bad luck trade than, say, acquiring a guy with a massive contract who was recently suspended for PEDs and is on the wrong side of 35.
Elian Pena St. Lucie Mets - A SS In St. Lucie's Wednesday doubleheader, the 18-year-old shortstop went 3-for-7 with a walk and his 7th and 8th doubles. He's hitting .346/.460/.481 (.941). Also 8 steals in 9 attempts. Explore Elian Pena News >
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