Let's talk about Francisco Lindor

[Benjamin Grimm]

https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/francisco-lindor-mets-1.50046649Francisco Lindor to Mets? Steve Cohen could make it happen

[Edgy MD]

I'd like Franciso Lindor better if he could catch or play center.

[Frayed Knot]

And you run the risk of having it be a one year rental.

Just because Mookie Betts signed w/the Dodgers following his trade under similar conditions doesn't mean Lindor is going to follow the same path.



The other thing that would worry me is the idea that Cohen would want to make this kind of a 'Backpage-Grabbing' move while ignoring the potential fit issues just to see the splash it makes.

[Benjamin Grimm]

John Harper suggests that the Mets deal Giminez, Rosario, and Davis for Lindor. His position seems to be that a deal that doesn't require the Mets giving up Smith or Alonso is worth doing.

[Edgy MD]

I'm ag'in' that idea.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Do the Mets really need Gimenez and Rosario if they're signing Lindnor?

[nymr83]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: John Harper suggests that the Mets deal Giminez, Rosario, and Davis for Lindor. His position seems to be that a deal that doesn't require the Mets giving up Smith or Alonso is worth doing.

I'd rather give up Smith than BOTH Rosario and Giminez - If they both hit, one could slide to 2B at some point even with Lindor here. Even if Alonso/Smith both hit, its a liability in left field unless the Mets have "insider knowledge" that the DH is here to stay.



Carlos Carrasco didn't have a great short year and is owed 12 million each of the next 2 years. Does Cleveland need finincial relief in this environment?



How about Carrasco and Lindor for Smith, Rosario, and a C-level prospect?

[batmagadanleadoff]

=nymr83 post_id=50310 time=1604981925 user_id=54]




I'd rather give up Smith than BOTH Rosario and Giminez - If they both hit, one could slide to 2B at some point even with Lindor here.

[nymr83]

fine, but can we still take Carrasco's contract off their hands?



its nice have an owner whose money we can pretend to spend!

[batmagadanleadoff]

=nymr83 post_id=50312 time=1604983964 user_id=54]
fine, but can we still take Carrasco's contract off their hands?



its nice have an owner whose money we can pretend to spend!

[Frayed Knot]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=50308 time=1604981711 user_id=68]
Do the Mets really need Gimenez and Rosario if they're signing Lindnor?

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure I can get with the idea that trading Kelenic, Dunn, Bruce, Bautista, and Swarzak for Diaz, Canó, and cash is the automatic ace card that disqualifies Brody Van Wangenen, but giving up J.D. Davis, Andrés Giménez, and Amed Rosario for a year's worth of Francisco Lindor is something to be excited about.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I would think that there would have to be a negotiating window as part of the deal.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I don;t really "know" Lindor, so I'm kinda wary. Also between Gimenez, Rosie and the upcoming Mauricio it seems like middle infielders with ability is not necessarily the shortcoming we need to address for 2021. We could use a MLB catcher and a world-class centerfielder and probably 2 good starting pitchers

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree with that. My sense is (so far anyway) that the Indians are more interested in the Mets than the Mets are in Lindor.

[Lefty Specialist]

SS is just not a major need right now. Lindor's a great player, but a lot of great players will be available this offseason as teams tighten their belts.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=50311 time=1604982195 user_id=68]
=nymr83 post_id=50310 time=1604981925 user_id=54]




I'd rather give up Smith than BOTH Rosario and Giminez - If they both hit, one could slide to 2B at some point even with Lindor here.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Just saying, you can't necessarily get everyone and can only trade a guy once.



A right handed hitting center fielder like that Springer guy seems like the area of greatest need, followed closely by starting pitching. You might do better surrendering some of that middle infield talent for a pitcher in a trade.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Steve Cohen is baseball's wealthiest owner and I now expect the Mets to be run like a powerhouse. And let's not mince any more words about Amed Rosario and act like he's the second coming of Godot. He fucking sucks. He's a .250 hitter -- at best -- who never walks and doesn't hit nearly enough homers to make up for his crappiness. And that's all he's ever been after, now, four years of MLB experience. He has a clueless command of the strike zone and is always swinging at terrible pitches. And then, when he's inevitably down two strikes, has to swing at even more crappy pitches to protect the plate. This, as you would expect, leads to terrible contact, if he even makes contact and an awful at-bat. And Rosario has at least one at bat like that almost every game he plays.



So let's let those other poor teams who don't have an owner as rich as Steve Cohen waste two or three more years of giving Rosario 500+ plate appearances a year while they wait to see if Rosario develops into the next Honus Wagner. Let them watch and hope for a miracle while the world passes them by.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

You keep discussing this as if there aren't players involved, you did the same w/Realmuto over the past two years.

No one is disputing that Lindor would be an upgrade or that our new friend Stevie won't be able to afford him. The issues are: because he's only signed thru 2021, and because there are bigger weaknesses with less depth than SS, is this the best place to spend the chips it would take to get him??

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: You keep discussing this as if there aren't players involved, you did the same w/Realmuto over the past two years. No one is disputing that Lindor would be an upgrade or that our new friend Stevie won't be able to afford him. The issues are: because he's only signed thru 2021, and because there are bigger weaknesses with less depth than SS, is this the best place to spend the chips it would take to get him??

In my fantasy world, Lindnor signs with the Mets. That's a no-brainer. I'm not talking risk of a one-year rental.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: You keep discussing this as if there aren't players involved, you did the same w/Realmuto over the past two years. No one is disputing that Lindor would be an upgrade or that our new friend Stevie won't be able to afford him. The issues are: because he's only signed thru 2021, and because there are bigger weaknesses with less depth than SS, is this the best place to spend the chips it would take to get him?? In my fantasy world, Lindnor signs with the Mets. That's a no-brainer. I'm not talking risk of a one-year rental.

And Realmuto and Springer are free agents. It won't take any trade capital to get those two. Just money, which Cohen has lotsa.

[Frayed Knot]

Frayed Knot wrote: You keep discussing this as if there aren't players involved, you did the same w/Realmuto over the past two years. No one is disputing that Lindor would be an upgrade or that our new friend Stevie won't be able to afford him. The issues are: because he's only signed thru 2021, and because there are bigger weaknesses with less depth than SS, is this the best place to spend the chips it would take to get him?? In my fantasy world, Lindnor signs with the Mets. That's a no-brainer. I'm not talking risk of a one-year rental.

Then that's a question for next winter. In the meantime, the topic being discussed here was dealing Rosario + Gimenez + ??? for him this winter specifically as a

one-year rental because there's no other way but a trade to get him right now.

And Realmuto and Springer are free agents. It won't take any trade capital to get those two. Just money, which Cohen has lotsa.

Which is again not what's being discussed or is something anyone is disputing. It's like you're arguing with ghosts just so you'll have someone to disagree with.

The only reason I even brought up Realmuto is that, like you seem to be doing with Lindor here, you've said multiple times that the cheap-ass Wilpons should

have signed him two years ago ignoring the fact that he wasn't available for signing until around two weeks ago.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Frayed Knot wrote: Then that's a question for next winter. In the meantime, the topic being discussed here was dealing Rosario + Gimenez + ??? for him this winter specifically as a one-year rental because there's no other way but a trade to get him right now.

But that trade could include a negotiating window. I think that that's the only way the Mets should make any kind of deal for Lindor, unless they're giving up a lesser package of players than what was proposed.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But that trade could include a negotiating window.

Possibly. Those are rare but they do happen occasionally. Johan came here that way and the oddity there was at his insistence that it be done that way.

Most players, particularly those not yet 30 and at or near the top of their game, don't like to simply give away their maybe one and only shot at the free market.

And would that still be the best use of resources? Folks can argue all they want that money is now limitless (although even limitless money has limits) but here

you'd be spending FA bucks AND skimming your best young trade chips off the top who would then not be available for potential different deals for positions

where we have clearer needs and less depth.



Make the smarter moves, even if they aren't always the splashiest ones. I always thought that the best quote from MONEYBALL (the book, not the movie) was

that it's easier to recover from the player you don't sign than it is to recover from the guy you sign at the wrong price. And price can mean dollars or bodies or

a combo of the two.

[Centerfield]

The key being what other pieces are available via trade. I wonder if a top tier starter with a big contract might be dangled.

[Benjamin Grimm]

During the conference today, Cohen said that there will be teams looking to unload big contracts, and that the Mets will be in a position to take advantage of that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: You keep discussing this as if there aren't players involved, you did the same w/Realmuto over the past two years. No one is disputing that Lindor would be an upgrade or that our new friend Stevie won't be able to afford him. The issues are: because he's only signed thru 2021, and because there are bigger weaknesses with less depth than SS, is this the best place to spend the chips it would take to get him?? In my fantasy world, Lindnor signs with the Mets. That's a no-brainer. I'm not talking risk of a one-year rental. Then that's a question for next winter. In the meantime, the topic being discussed here was dealing Rosario + Gimenez + ??? for him this winter specifically as a one-year rental because there's no other way but a trade to get him right now. And Realmuto and Springer are free agents. It won't take any trade capital to get those two. Just money, which Cohen has lotsa. Which is again not what's being discussed or is something anyone is disputing. It's like you're arguing with ghosts just so you'll have someone to disagree with. The only reason I even brought up Realmuto is that, like you seem to be doing with Lindor here, you've said multiple times that the cheap-ass Wilpons should have signed him two years ago ignoring the fact that he wasn't available for signing until around two weeks ago.

Uh, no! I'm not arguing with ghosts and I'm not moving the goalposts or making irrelevant points. When one poster criticizes a potential Lindnor acquisition on grounds that the Mets need to fill other positions first, specifically a catcher --- and another poster cites that we need that trade capital to acquire other positions of greater need, it's fair game for me to remind everyone that Realmuto, among others, are free agents that won't require that the Mets use up their finite trade chips on.



And what any of this has to do with the Mets failure to get Realmuto two years ago, I have no idea.



And as to the Mets being able to sign Lindnor to their own contract after acquiring him, I'd say that the odds of that happening are about 100% at this moment in time, with a brand new owner with money coming out of his whatever and looking to make a splash.

[Frayed Knot]

And what any of this has to do with the Mets failure to get Realmuto two years ago, I have no idea.

Because you've griped multiple times here over the last couple of years about the Mets failure to sign Realmuto back when Philly got him, including as recently as a month ago:

"The Mets should've signed Realmuto two years ago when they signed Ramos. But the fucking Wilpons." as if the facts of his acquisition are irrelevant, and you certainly

seem to be doing the same with Lindor as recently as a couple of hours ago: "Do the Mets really need Gimenez and Rosario if they're signing Lindnor?"



If you want to argue for a trade this off-season involving Lindor on the assumption that he's a lock to sign a year and that some of your more tradable chips won't be needed

for other spots, then do that. But otherwise you're arguing against points that aren't being made here, in opposition to an owner who no longer owns, and for signings

that either couldn't then (Realmuto) or can't now (Lindor) be made.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Seems like the Mets had a kinda sorta comparable situation when they had the opportunity to get Mike Piazza. They already had a catcher at the time -- and All-Star, too. Was Piazza a bigger star than Lindor? I think so. Is the upgrade from Rosario/Jiminez to Lindor as large as the upgrade from Hundley to Piazza?



I wouldn't make the Lindor trade without a negotiating window.