Gwreck

I did not know that was Willie's full name, and that neither Willie nor Larry is short for anything. Torre is the last HOF member not yet named on this list. [th]Name[/th][th]WAR[/th][td]Willie Mays[/td][td]156.2[/td][td]Willie Randolph[/td][td]65.9[/td][td]Richie Ashburn[/td][td]64.3[/td][td][/td][td]61.6[/td][td]Gary Sheffield[/td][td]60.5[/td][td][/td][td]60.2[/td][td]Yogi Berra[/td][td]59.5[/td][td]Joe Torre[/td][td]57.7[/td][td][/td][td]55.7[/td][td][/td][td]51.1[/td][td][/td][td]49.1[/td][td]Rusty Staub[/td][td]45.8[/td][td][/td][td]44.4[/td][td]Gil Hodges[/td][td]43.8[/td][td][/td][td]43.6[/td][td][/td][td]42.6[/td][td]Moises Alou[/td][td]39.9[/td][td][/td][td]39.3[/td][td][/td][td]37.2[/td][td][/td][td]32.5[/td][td][/td][td]31.6[/td][td][/td][td]30.8[/td][td][/td][td]30.1[/td]

[th]Name[/th][th]WAR[/th][td]Willie Mays[/td][td]156.2[/td][td][/td][td]65.9[/td][td]Richie Ashburn[/td][td]64.3[/td][td][/td][td]61.6[/td][td]Gary Sheffield[/td][td]60.5[/td][td][/td][td]60.2[/td][td]Yogi Berra[/td][td]59.5[/td][td][/td][td]57.7[/td][td][/td][td]55.7[/td][td][/td][td]51.1[/td][td][/td][td]49.1[/td][td]Rusty Staub[/td][td]45.8[/td][td][/td][td]44.4[/td][td]Gil Hodges[/td][td]43.8[/td][td][/td][td]43.6[/td][td][/td][td]42.6[/td][td]Moises Alou[/td][td]39.9[/td][td][/td][td]39.3[/td][td][/td][td]37.2[/td][td][/td][td]32.5[/td][td][/td][td]31.6[/td][td][/td][td]30.8[/td][td][/td][td]30.1[/td]

[th]Name[/th][th]WAR[/th][td]Willie Mays[/td][td]156.2[/td][td][/td][td]65.9[/td][td]Richie Ashburn[/td][td]64.3[/td][td][/td][td]61.6[/td][td]Gary Sheffield[/td][td]60.5[/td][td][/td][td]60.2[/td][td]Yogi Berra[/td][td]59.5[/td][td][/td][td]57.7[/td][td][/td][td]55.7[/td][td][/td][td]51.1[/td][td][/td][td]49.1[/td][td][/td][td]45.8[/td][td][/td][td]44.4[/td][td]Gil Hodges[/td][td]43.8[/td][td][/td][td]43.6[/td][td][/td][td]42.6[/td][td]Moises Alou[/td][td]39.9[/td][td][/td][td]39.3[/td][td][/td][td]37.2[/td][td][/td][td]32.5[/td][td][/td][td]31.6[/td][td][/td][td]30.8[/td][td][/td][td]30.1[/td]

Larry finished with only 22.8 career WAR. List was created with a cutoff of 30 WAR, roughly corresponding to the top ~900 players of all time.

This is what happens when one uses form tables and doesn't proofread the headings... [th]Name[/th][th]WAR[/th][td]Willie Mays[/td][td]156.2[/td][td][/td][td]65.9[/td][td][/td][td]64.3[/td][td][/td][td]61.6[/td][td]Gary Sheffield[/td][td]60.5[/td][td][/td][td]60.2[/td][td][/td][td]59.5[/td][td][/td][td]57.7[/td][td][/td][td]55.7[/td][td][/td][td]51.1[/td][td][/td][td]49.1[/td][td][/td][td]45.8[/td][td][/td][td]44.4[/td][td][/td][td]43.8[/td][td][/td][td]43.6[/td][td][/td][td]42.6[/td][td]Moises Alou[/td][td]39.9[/td][td][/td][td]39.3[/td][td][/td][td]37.2[/td][td][/td][td]32.5[/td][td][/td][td]31.6[/td][td][/td][td]30.8[/td][td][/td][td]30.1[/td]

Inspired by the recent release of the Hall of Fame Ballot and the recent recollection that Rick Porcello (!) finished his career as a Met. Can you name the all-time best players (as per WAR) whose last/most recent major league game was with the New York Mets? Degree of difficulty: easy for some (there are 4 members of the HOF here besides Mays) and basically impossible for others. Hints will be forthcoming if this proves too difficult. [th]Name[/th][th]WAR[/th][td]Willie Mays[/td][td]156.2[/td][td][/td][td]65.9[/td][td][/td][td]64.3[/td][td][/td][td]61.6[/td][td][/td][td]60.5[/td][td][/td][td]60.2[/td][td][/td][td]59.5[/td][td][/td][td]57.7[/td][td][/td][td]55.7[/td][td][/td][td]51.1[/td][td][/td][td]49.1[/td][td][/td][td]45.8[/td][td][/td][td]44.4[/td][td][/td][td]43.8[/td][td][/td][td]43.6[/td][td][/td][td]42.6[/td][td][/td][td]39.9[/td][td][/td][td]39.3[/td][td][/td][td]37.2[/td][td][/td][td]32.5[/td][td][/td][td]31.6[/td][td][/td][td]30.8[/td][td][/td][td]30.1[/td]

I believe Santana earned that right after the 2012 season (he was hurt and never pitched again in the majors, of course) but he was under Mets control through 2013. And before Beltran: Trachsel, 2006 Piazza, 2003 John Franco, circa 1995

The full article had the arguments built out a lot more, but basically it came down to: -the internal options to replace Diaz aren’t nearly as good -external options are either several years older (Robert Suarez, Rasiel Iglesias) or have had some recent challenging times in New York (Devin Williams, Ryan Helsley) and thus probably unlikely to sign with the Mets. -this is the sort of player a team like the Mets should sign given their financial advantage. -Even if Diaz ages poorly and loses the closer role by the end of the contract, he can still be a useful part of the bullpen and wouldn’t just be dead space on the roster. I think all of these are good points, but I also agree with The Hot Corner’s analysis: the Mets would have been happy for Diaz to not opt-out and stay for 2 more years. Giving Diaz what is effectively a 2 or 3 year extension isn’t exactly outrageous, and we know Uncle Stevie’s got the cash.

Unlike several of the recent retirements, a retirement for Beltran’s number would be appropriate if/when he is elected to the Hall of Fame. The cynical among us would note that occasion would provide the opportunity for a separate celebration/increased ticket draw day. Which, I recall, is what happened with Piazza — he was inducted into the Mets HOF a couple years before his MLB HOF induction (after which his number was retired).

I’ll go a step further and say that Mazzilli is both *not* worthy and the weakest player inductee into the Mets HOF. The only retired-but-not-yet-inducted players I’d consider for the Mets HOF are: Reyes (a complicated case) and John Stearns. (Obviously deGrom, Alonso, Lindor, and Nimmo will all get in after their careers are over).

Tyrone Taylor.

And he plays a multitude of positions. Every year since about 2020 I’ve been of the opinion that the Mets would be well served by not even factoring McNeil in the first instance when trying to fill out a lineup, knowing that he’ll get 700 PAs anyway because there’s always slumps/injuries/etc. and he can be fit in to play almost anywhere.

Wasn’t the 2018 Supreme Court case which opened Pandora’s box a suit by New Jersey against MLB (and the other major leagues plus the NCAA)? I’m fully aware that MLB’s stance has changed somewhat after the Supreme Court decided Murphy but MLB was not on the side of legalizing betting nationwide in the first instance. MLB seeking to get their share of the money once that change in the law occured is…not exactly indefensible. And, while it’s a bit beside the point, didn’t California Proposition 27 get defeated by something like a 4-to-1 margin?

Agreed 100%. But…while that may make MLB hypocritical if it was going to now complain about the negative effects of gambling…I’m not as sure that MLB owns the blame for this incident. Did they actively try to have the laws changed to legalize the gambling? Not really. Were there scandals involving players when you could only legally gamble in NV? Yes. Does MLB have the harshest possible penalty (lifetime ban) for gambling infractions? It does. Should gambling on sports be illegal? Ehhhh…

I am not a Manfred fan here (and he’s made some dumb comments about gambling recently) but where is it that MLB ignored this issue? The reporting is that they (1) suspended the pitchers while an investigation was pending (2) and shared information with the prosecutors. That sure seems like what they’re supposed to do, no?

Key positives: -Massive infusion of resources for on-field talent. This is the #1 responsibility of an owner (willingness/ability to spend money to make team competitive) and ownership is best-in-class on this point. -Stadium upgrades. Fixing the scoreboard was the single most important change that could have been made to Citi Field and it is outstanding. -Improvements in scouting, player development, and analytics. Doesn’t get as much attention but these have all been built out, expanded, and/or upgraded over the last few years. -Reputation and impression of organization. Players want to come to NY, the organization is viewed as a favorable place to work, etc. Major PR gaffes/debacles have been significantly reduced. Key negatives: -Field manager turnover. In fairness, Rojas was inherited, but the Buck Showalter experiment and dismissal was messy. -Waiting for Stearns to become available left the GM/baseball operations leadership in flux for a couple years. Mixed: -Games won/time in first place in the standings has improved significantly…but final position and playoff outcomes have underwhelmed. Too soon to tell: -Revamping player development, scouting, drafting, etc. is a long-term process and we won’t know how successful it’s been for years down the road. -Stearns. Obviously way too soon to fully know how effective he will be as POBO. Some positives but also coming up short in 2025 was problematic.

Could you be more specific as to your definition of “lofty position?” I think that’s a pretty optimistic look at the team currently and an even more optimistic assessment of the unproven players in the minors. The Lindor-Alonso-Nimmo-McNeil-Diaz core of the past 5 years has zero division titles and one once got to 90 wins…

Could you be more specific as to your definition of “lofty position?”

Britton did a piece a few weeks back about what the payroll would look like at $244 million (below luxury tax threshold), $284 million (below penalty level where draft position is lived back) and at $340 million. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6695773/2025/10/07/new-york-mets-roster-offseason-budget/ Takeaway: He had $340M as a level at which the Mets could (1) retain Alonso and Diaz; (2) sign a Shane Bieber or Michael King as a starter; (3) add a couple luxury bullpen arms (Shelby Miller, Brad Keller). At the $340M level though, that’s still putting McNeil at 2B, Baty at 3B, Vientos at DH, and Taylor in CF as part of the everyday starting lineup (under the theory that Benge and Williams are likely to help later in the year, but won’t be on the opening day roster).

I believe it’s announced closer to the vote. An additional wrinkle is that each committee member can only vote for 3 players. By way of reference, the “classic era” committee that elected Allen and Parker was: Hall of Fame Players (5): Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Tony Perez, Lee Smith, Ozzie Smith Hall of Fame Managers (1): Joe Torre Executives (5): Sandy Alderson, Terry McGuirk, Dayton Moore, Arte Moreno, Brian Sabean Media/Historians (5): Bob Elliott, Leslie Heaphy, Steve Hirdt, Dick Kaegel and Larry Lester.

8 candidates announced for the ballot: Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Carlos Delgado Jeff Kent Don Mattingly Dale Murphy Gary Sheffield Fernando Valenzuela Ballot was selected by 11-member panel of baseball historians. A 16-member committee (composition not yet announced) will meet in December. 12 votes needed for election. Fewer than 5 votes means a candidate is ineligible for the next Contemporary Era ballot in 2029. Garnering fewer than 5 votes on two Contemporary Era Ballots (e.g., if they return in 2032 and again get <5 votes again) they are ineligible for further HOF consideration.

Mets had 147 steals (5th most in MLB) and a ridiculous 89% success rate. Obviously that’s not *all* due to Richardson but hard to say he didn’t significantly help the team be better.

All of those uniforms — other than the classic white with blue pinstripes — are ghastly.

I’m not so sure that helps him. I guess if Utley gets in it will help Kent’s candidacy but there are a lot of other second basemen who I think compare favorably to Kent and also aren’t in: Lou Whitaker and Bobby Grich, probably Utley, and also the not-yet-eligible Jose Altuve. And also Cano, who I suppose is in a separate category.

With both Scherzer and Kershaw advancing to the WS again (for the last time, probably), I was reflecting on the fact that at least one of the no-doubt HOF pitchers Greinke, Kershaw, Scherzer, and Verlander had been involved in almost every WS from 2017 to present. Thus, barring some strange revelations between now and voting, there are only 4 World Series in which there’s no current likelihood that either team will have had a Hall of Fame player in that series: 1. 2002 (Bonds may some day get in of course. Perhaps Kenny Lofton is re-evaluated by the modern era committee) 2. 2008 (Rollins and Utley still on the ballot, but not exactly close to election) 3. 2016 (A little early, but between Lindor, Jose Ramirez, and Kyle Schwarber, someone will probably make it) and… 4. 2015. Best bets are the two still-active players, deGrom and Salvador Perez, but neither one is that likely.