Benjamin Grimm

That rocking back and forth was probably driving them insane. I don't know how Bobby Cox tolerated it all those years. I would have been tempted to strangle the guy.

And here are the births. Save caveats apply. A player who debuted with another team and then came to the Mets in the same season would be incorrectly included here. (Can't think of any offhand, but maybe I'll spot one or two once I read the list.) 1962 Ray Daviault 1962 Rick Herrscher 1962 Jim Hickman 1962 Willard Hunter 1962 Rod Kanehl 1962 Ed Kranepool 1962 Bob Moorhead 1963 Larry Bearnarth 1963 Steve Dillon 1963 Ron Hunt 1963 Cleon Jones 1963 Al Moran 1963 Grover Powell 1963 Don Rowe 1963 Ted Schreiber 1963 Dick Smith 1964 Jerry Hinsley 1964 Bobby Klaus 1964 Gary Kroll 1964 Ron Locke 1964 Dennis Ribant 1964 Johnny Stephenson 1964 Darrell Sutherland 1964 Bill Wakefield 1965 Jim Bethke 1965 Kevin Collins 1965 Rob Gardner 1965 Greg Goossen 1965 Bud Harrelson 1965 Tug McGraw 1965 Dennis Musgraves 1965 Danny Napoleon 1965 Dick Selma 1965 Ron Swoboda 1966 Shaun Fitzmaurice 1966 Bill Hepler 1966 Billy Murphy 1966 Dick Rusteck 1966 Nolan Ryan 1967 Ken Boswell 1967 Bill Denehy 1967 Danny Frisella 1967 Bob Heise 1967 Jerry Koosman 1967 Joe Moock 1967 Amos Otis 1967 Les Rohr 1967 Al Schmelz 1967 Tom Seaver 1967 Don Shaw 1967 Billy Wynne 1968 Duffy Dyer 1968 Mike Jorgensen 1968 Jim McAndrew 1969 Jack DiLauro 1969 Wayne Garrett 1969 Rod Gaspar 1969 Gary Gentry 1969 Jessie Hudson 1969 Bob Johnson 1969 Bobby Pfeil 1970 Tim Foli 1970 Rich Folkers 1970 Ted Martinez 1970 Ken Singleton 1970 Leroy Stanton 1971 Buzz Capra 1971 Francisco Estrada 1971 Jon Matlack 1971 John Milner 1971 Don Rose 1971 Charlie Williams 1972 Lute Barnes 1972 Tommy Moore 1972 Joe Nolan 1972 Bob Rauch 1972 Dave Schneck 1972 Brent Strom 1972 Hank Webb 1973 Bob Apodaca 1973 Greg Harts 1973 Ron Hodges 1973 Brian Ostrosser 1973 Craig Swan 1973 George Theodore 1974 Benny Ayala 1974 Bruce Boisclair 1974 Nino Espinosa 1974 Ike Hampton 1974 Brock Pemberton 1974 Rich Puig 1974 Randy Sterling 1975 Rick Baldwin 1975 Roy Staiger 1975 Randy Tate 1975 Mike Vail 1976 Leon Brown 1976 Jay Kleven 1976 Lee Mazzilli 1976 Bob Myrick 1977 Steve Henderson 1977 Roy Lee Jackson 1977 Dan Norman 1977 John Pacella 1977 Luis Rosado 1977 Jackson Todd 1978 Butch Benton 1978 Juan Berenguer 1978 Dwight Bernard 1978 Mike Bruhert 1978 Mardie Cornejo 1978 Alex Trevi�o 1979 Neil Allen 1979 Kelvin Chapman 1979 Jesse Orosco 1979 Jeff Reardon 1979 Mike Scott 1980 Wally Backman 1980 Hubie Brooks 1980 Scott Holman 1980 Ed Lynch 1980 Jos� Moreno 1980 Mario Ramirez 1980 Mookie Wilson 1981 Ron Gardenhire 1981 Brian Giles 1981 Greg Harris 1981 Mike Howard 1981 Terry Leach 1981 Tim Leary 1981 Charlie Puleo 1981 Ray Searage 1982 Carlos Diaz 1982 Brent Gaff 1982 Rick Ownbey 1982 Gary Rajsich 1982 Ronn Reynolds 1982 Doug Sisk 1982 Walt Terrell 1982 Rusty Tillman 1983 Mike Bishop 1983 Ron Darling 1983 Mike Fitzgerald 1983 Jos� Oquendo 1983 Darryl Strawberry 1984 Billy Beane 1984 John Christensen 1984 Wes Gardner 1984 John Gibbons 1984 Dwight Gooden 1984 Ross Jones 1984 Kevin Mitchell 1984 Calvin Schiraldi 1984 Herm Winningham 1985 Rick Aguilera 1985 Terry Blocker 1985 Lenny Dykstra 1985 Bill Latham 1985 Roger McDowell 1985 Randy Myers 1986 Rick Anderson 1986 Kevin Elster 1986 Ed Hearn 1986 Stan Jefferson 1986 Barry Lyons 1986 Dave Magadan 1986 John Mitchell 1987 Mark Carreon 1987 Tom Edens 1987 Jeff Innis 1987 Gregg Jefferies 1987 Keith Miller 1987 Randy Milligan 1987 Al Pedrique 1988 Dave West 1989 Blaine Beatty 1989 Julio Machado 1989 Jeff McKnight 1989 Kevin Tapani 1989 Wally Whitehurst 1990 Kevin Baez 1990 Kevin Brown 1990 Chuck Carr 1990 Todd Hundley 1990 Chris Jelic 1990 Dave Liddell 1990 Darren Reed 1990 Julio Valera 1991 Terry Bross 1991 Chris Donnels 1991 Jeff Gardner 1991 Terry McDaniel 1991 Pete Schourek 1991 Doug Simons 1991 Anthony Young 1992 D. J. Dozier 1992 Eric Hillman 1992 Pat Howell 1992 Jeff Kent 1992 Ryan Thompson 1992 Joe Vitko 1993 Tim Bogar 1993 Jeromy Burnitz 1993 Mike Draper 1993 Kenny Greer 1993 Butch Huskey 1993 Bobby Jones 1993 Tito Navarro 1993 Doug Saunders 1993 Dave Telgheder 1994 Juan Castillo 1994 Jason Jacome 1994 Kelly Stinnett 1995 Edgardo Alfonzo 1995 Jeff Barry 1995 Paul Byrd 1995 Alberto Castillo 1995 Reid Cornelius 1995 Don Florence 1995 Brook Fordyce 1995 Jason Isringhausen 1995 Aaron Ledesma 1995 Kevin Lomon 1995 Alex Ochoa 1995 Ricky Otero 1995 Robert Person 1995 Bill Pulsipher 1995 Pete Walker 1996 Mike Fyhrie 1996 Charlie Greene 1996 Jason Hardtke 1996 Rey Ord��ez 1996 Derek Wallace 1996 Paul Wilson 1997 Steve Bieser 1997 Joe Crawford 1997 Shawn Gilbert 1997 Takashi Kashiwada 1997 Cory Lidle 1997 Carlos Mendoza 1997 Kevin Morgan 1998 Benny Agbayani 1998 Mike Kinkade 1998 Jay Payton 1998 Jeff Tam 1998 Preston Wilson 1998 Masato Yoshii 1999 Octavio Dotel 1999 Terrence Long 1999 Melvin Mora 1999 Dan Murray 1999 Jorge Toca 1999 Vance Wilson 2000 Eric Cammack 2000 Jim Mann 2000 Timo Perez 2000 Jerrod Riggan 2000 Grant Roberts 2000 Jason Tyner 2001 Mark Corey 2001 Alex Escobar 2001 Dicky Gonzalez 2001 Jason Phillips 2001 Tsuyoshi Shinjo 2002 Jaime Cerda 2002 Pedro Feliciano 2002 Satoru Komiyama 2002 Marco Scutaro 2002 Jae Seo 2002 Esix Snead 2002 Pat Strange 2002 Tyler Walker 2002 Ty Wigginton 2003 Edwin Almonte 2003 Jason Anderson 2003 Joe DePastino 2003 Jeff Duncan 2003 Danny Garcia 2003 Mike Glavine 2003 Jeremy Griffiths 2003 Aaron Heilman 2003 Prentice Redman 2003 Jos� Reyes 2003 Jason Roach 2003 Matt Watson 2004 Heath Bell 2004 Craig Brazell 2004 Victor Diaz 2004 Bartolome Fortunato 2004 Joe Hietpas 2004 Jeff Keppinger 2004 Kaz Matsui 2004 David Wright 2004 Tyler Yates 2005 Tim Hamulack 2005 Anderson Hernandez 2005 Mike Jacobs 2005 Dae-Sung Koo 2005 Royce Ring 2006 Brian Bannister 2006 Philip Humber 2006 Lastings Milledge 2006 Henry Owens 2006 Mike Pelfrey 2006 Alay Soler 2007 Willie Collazo 2007 Carlos Gomez 2007 Carlos Muniz 2007 Joe Smith

Some big names on this list. It even starts with a Hall-of-Famer. (As I said above, this list has at least a few names that don't belong. I mentioned Cleon Jones and George Foster. Craig Swan is another who fits that category. So is Lee Mazzilli.) 1962 Richie Ashburn 1962 Ed Bouchee 1962 Elio Chacon 1962 Harry Chiti 1962 Ray Daviault 1962 John DeMerit 1962 Sammy Drake 1962 Larry Foss 1962 Joe Ginsberg 1962 Rick Herrscher 1962 Dave Hillman 1962 Sherman Jones 1962 Clem Labine 1962 Jim Marshall 1962 Bob Miller 1962 Vinegar Bend Mizell 1962 Herb Moford 1962 Joe Pignatano 1962 Gene Woodling 1963 Cliff Cook 1963 Chico Fernandez 1963 Pumpsie Green 1963 Joe Hicks 1963 Gil Hodges 1963 Charlie Neal 1963 Grover Powell 1963 Don Rowe 1963 Ted Schreiber 1963 Norm Sherry 1963 Sammy Taylor 1963 Marv Throneberry 1964 Craig Anderson 1964 Ed Bauta 1964 Larry Burright 1964 Steve Dillon 1964 Wayne Graham 1964 Tim Harkness 1964 Jay Hook 1964 Willard Hunter 1964 Rod Kanehl 1964 Ron Locke 1964 Al Moran 1964 Amado Samuel 1964 Tom Sturdivant 1964 Bill Wakefield 1965 Yogi Berra 1965 Jim Bethke 1965 Bobby Klaus 1965 Frank Lary 1965 Bob Moorhead 1965 Dennis Musgraves 1965 Tom Parsons 1965 Warren Spahn 1965 Carl Willey 1966 Choo Choo Coleman 1966 Larry Elliot 1966 Shaun Fitzmaurice 1966 Bob Friend 1966 Bill Hepler 1966 Roy McMillan 1966 Larry Miller 1966 Billy Murphy 1966 Danny Napoleon 1966 Gordie Richardson 1966 Dick Rusteck 1967 Chuck Estrada 1967 Bill Graham 1967 Bob Hendley 1967 Jerry Hinsley 1967 Johnny Lewis 1967 Al Luplow 1967 Joe Moock 1967 Hal Reniff 1967 Al Schmelz 1967 Bob Shaw 1967 Ralph Terry 1967 Nick Willhite 1968 Jerry Buchek 1968 Bill Connors 1968 Phil Linz 1969 Ed Charles 1969 Jessie Hudson 1969 Al Jackson 1969 Les Rohr 1970 Don Cardwell 1971 Bob Aspromonte 1971 Francisco Estrada 1971 Al Weis 1972 Bob Rauch 1973 Lute Barnes 1973 Jim Beauchamp 1973 Greg Harts 1973 Phil Hennigan 1973 Jerry May 1973 Willie Mays 1973 Brian Ostrosser 1974 Jack Aker 1974 Jim Gosger 1974 Bob Miller 1974 Rich Puig 1974 Dave Schneck 1974 Randy Sterling 1974 John Strohmayer 1974 George Theodore 1975 Bob Gallagher 1975 Brock Pemberton 1975 George Stone 1975 Randy Tate 1976 Billy Baldwin 1976 Leon Brown 1976 Jay Kleven 1976 Ken Sanders 1977 Luis Alvarado 1977 Bob Apodaca 1977 Rick Baldwin 1977 Leo Foster 1977 Pepe Mangual 1977 Felix Millan 1977 Ray Sadecki 1977 Joe Torre 1978 Mike Bruhert 1978 Mardie Cornejo 1978 Butch Metzger 1978 Bob Myrick 1978 Paul Siebert 1979 Bruce Boisclair 1979 Dock Ellis 1979 Sergio Ferrer 1979 Gil Flores 1979 Ed Kranepool 1979 Wayne Twitchell 1980 Jos� Cardenal 1980 Kevin Kobel 1980 Elliott Maddox 1980 Luis Rosado 1981 Mike Cubbage 1981 Mike Marshall 1981 Dyar Miller 1981 Dave Roberts 1982 Tom Hausman 1982 Randy Jones 1982 Phil Mankowski 1983 Mike Bishop 1983 Mark Bradley 1983 Scott Holman 1983 Mike Howard 1984 Brent Gaff 1984 Ron Hodges 1984 Jerry Martin 1984 John Stearns 1984 Craig Swan 1984 Dick Tidrow 1984 Mike Torrez 1985 Larry Bowa 1985 Kelvin Chapman 1985 Ron Gardenhire 1985 Rusty Staub 1986 Bruce Berenyi 1986 Tim Corcoran 1986 George Foster 1986 John Gibbons 1987 Bob Gibson 1987 Clint Hurdle 1988 Gene Walter 1989 Manny Hernandez 1989 Phil Lombardi 1989 Lee Mazzilli 1990 Chris Jelic 1990 Dave Liddell 1990 Orlando Mercado 1990 Jeff Musselman 1990 Tom O'Malley 1990 Lou Thornton 1990 Alex Trevi�o 1991 Blaine Beatty 1991 Tom Herr 1991 Terry McDaniel 1991 Garry Templeton 1991 Kelvin Torve 1992 Tim Burke 1992 D. J. Dozier 1992 Tom Filer 1992 Pat Howell 1992 Rodney McCray 1992 Willie Randolph 1992 Steve Springer 1992 Joe Vitko 1993 Kevin Baez 1993 Mike Draper 1993 Wayne Housie 1993 Jeff Innis 1993 Jeff Kaiser 1993 Ced Landrum 1993 Tito Navarro 1993 Doug Saunders 1993 Frank Tanana 1993 Chico Walker 1993 Mickey Weston 1994 Juan Castillo 1994 Mauro Gozzo 1994 Eric Hillman 1994 Jonathan Hurst 1994 Jim Lindeman 1994 Roger Mason 1994 Jeff McKnight 1994 Kevin McReynolds 1994 Frank Seminara 1995 Mike Birkbeck 1995 Don Florence 1996 Rob MacDonald 1996 Kevin Roberson 1997 Joe Crawford 1997 Takashi Kashiwada 1997 Carlos Mendoza 1997 Kevin Morgan 1997 Gary Thurman 1997 Rick Trlicek 1998 Todd Haney 1998 Wayne Kirby 1998 Ralph Milliard 1998 Mel Rojas 1998 Jim Tatum 1999 Jermaine Allensworth 1999 Brian McRae 2000 Eric Cammack 2000 Jon Nunnally 2001 Darryl Hamilton 2001 Brett Hinchliffe 2001 Brian Rose 2001 Jorge Toca 2002 McKay Christensen 2002 Mark Johnson 2002 Satoru Komiyama 2002 Mark Little 2002 Tony Tarasco 2002 John Valentin 2003 Edwin Almonte 2003 Jay Bell 2003 David Cone 2003 Joe DePastino 2003 Mike Glavine 2003 Graeme Lloyd 2003 Jason Middlebrook 2003 Prentice Redman 2003 Jason Roach 2003 Tsuyoshi Shinjo 2003 Pat Strange 2003 Mo Vaughn 2003 Matt Watson 2004 Craig Brazell 2004 Brian Buchanan 2004 Wilson Delgado 2004 Jeff Duncan 2004 Danny Garcia 2004 Karim Garcia 2004 Ricky Gutierrez 2004 Joe Hietpas 2004 Orber Moreno 2004 Jos� Parra 2004 Grant Roberts 2004 Esix Snead 2004 Shane Spencer 2004 Tom Wilson 2004 Todd Zeile 2005 Manny Aybar 2005 Brian Daubach 2005 Felix Heredia 2005 Kaz Ishii 2005 Dae-Sung Koo 2005 Mike Matthews 2005 Jos� Offerman 2005 Juan Padilla 2005 Jos� Santiago 2005 Shingo Takatsu 2005 Eric Valent 2005 Gerald Williams 2006 Bartolome Fortunato 2006 Jeremi Gonzalez 2006 Jos� Lima 2006 Eli Marrero 2006 Duaner Sanchez 2006 Alay Soler 2006 Michael Tucker

Right after the season ended I had somebody submit some angry posts to Fred Wilpon's page. I didn't approve them because the guy thought he was sending an e-mail to Fred. He included his phone number and practically dared Fred to call him. Of course, Wilpon never saw the message and now that fool is probably thinking that he was too cowardly to phone.

Frayed Knot wrote: If UMDB doesn't have lists like these for all-timers I bet it could come up with them fairly quickly. Might make for an interesting feature. Willie Randolph, for instance, is a D-a-M. I could probably come close. I could get a list of players who played for the Mets in their final season. But it would include guys like Cleon Jones and George Foster who made a brief stop elsewhere (in both cases, the White Sox) before meeting their demise.

Yikes! Cleon called it, only twelve months early.

Edgy DC wrote: Indeed. You must have been bonkered to the c. and forgotten. Well, thanks for remembering and keeping the dream alive! EDIT: Your memory is remarkable: http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/5000/f1_t5016.shtml

Maybe I did! Was that when I was trying to sound like Metirish?

="Edgy DC"]Yancy coined it. I"m just doing my part. Huh?

Well, then maybe Easley has too many points. That doesn't mean that Wagner has too few. I'm not putting Wagner down in any way. I just see him as a supporting player (because of his role) and can't see him as one of the top ten most important players on the team.

I know that some saves are more difficult than others, but many of them are not all that difficult. And I don't believe that the ninth inning closer faces tougher hitters than any other pitchers. The opposing team can be at any point in their lineup when he comes into the game. They could be at 3-4-5 or at 7-8-9. And the available pinch hitters in the ninth inning may or may not be dangerous. I don't like, and don't agree with, the whole role of the modern day closer. Does Wagner contribute to wins? Sure he does. But not nearly as much as the guys who score or drive in runs or the guys who pitch six, seven, or eight innings. Bullpens are important. If you add up the Schaefer points of Wagner, Heilman, Feliciano, Smith, Schoeneweis, Mota, Sele, and Sosa (excluding his starts) you'll get a total that shows how important the bullpen is. But the way things are today, I can't argue that any one individual should be that highly ranked.

Because all they're contributing is a lack of failure. They're asked to get three outs without giving up two runs.

I agree, G. I'm not sure that Schaefer is gypping the closer as much as it's exposing that it's not such a role that gets credited with more importance than it deserves. Their only job, really, is to not screw up. It was different when they'd truly be "firemen," coming in to a game to get their team out of a jam. How many times this year did Billy Wagner enter a game with runners on base? If it was more than twice I'd be surprised. If it was zero I wouldn't be surprised at all.

What was that Norman and Sophie story? The newscaster seemed like he didn't even want to do that story, and when he was done he didn't seem to know if he had reported a news story or told a joke that bombed.

metbaseball wrote: I'd put Milledge in the trade market. He's too flaky, and Randolph can't seem to control him. That's more of a reason to get rid of Randolph than it is to get rid of Milledge.

I'd be okay with a return by Kaz. I don't know if he's the BEST option, but he's probably not the worst either. (I'm more interested in giving Barfield a shot.) But I do like your point about a second baseman who can bat leadoff. I hope that whoever we get can be a candidate for that spot in the lineup. I'd like a fallback in case Jose Reyes needs to spend some time further down in the lineup. (If he's still popping up all the time I'd consider moving him down to 7th or 8th.)

How much do the tampering rules apply to players? I remember Darryl Strawberry getting in a little hot water because he telegraphed his intentions to go to Los Angeles while he was still playing for the Mets. But in that case, it was a player sending a signal to a future employer. David Wright can't negotiate on behalf of the Mets. (At least not until he's granted Al Leiter powers!) So nothing he says would be interpreted as a signal to Rodriguez that the Mets were interested in him.

I remember each and every one of those Mets moments. I was there in person for numbers 26 and 27. (Not the best of the bunch by any means.)

I guess it's possible that Delgado will have a bounceback year, but it's more likely that his season was due to aging and not aberrations.

But that would mean that Mike Francesa was wrong!

He only becomes less valuable off third base if you don't replace him with a quality offensive third baseman. And, if you make him a second baseman, (and he's able to handle it) you actually make him more valuable.

Lastings Milledge falls somewhere between Gomez and Guerrero. (Much closer to Gomez, of course.)

metsmarathon wrote: why are we assuming that arod would be the better third baseman, forcing wright to move to either first or second? Another option (not that I'm endorsing it) would be to return Rodriguez to shortstop and put Reyes at second.

Well, you have to be careful to not get cause mixed up with effect. Maybe he was smiling and dancing less because he wasn't playing as well as he had been. Did he slump because he was less happy? Or was he less happy because he was slumping? I wouldn't spend too much time delving into why he was less happy when the reason may be right in front of us: he kept popping up the damn ball.

He became a pop up machine.