How Do You Feel?

[Ceetar]

Lefty Specialist wrote: That said, Wilpons cheap, yada,yada,yada. They could tighten the purse strings, but the Madoff excuse no longer applies. You did it once, you can do it again.

Well, the base revenue and expected 2016 returns is significantly higher now. I still don't expect them to exceed that though.

[seawolf17]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's be honest with ourselves: Regardless of your expectations going into the year, and notwithstanding how heroically and deservedly they earned their way in, we have to confront the reality that the Mets played like absolute shit in this series, and that really sucks. We all understand how hard it is to get in. Then to go out and put up 4 stinkers out of 5. So disheartening. I feel like they owed themselves, and the baseball-watching world, a better effort.

I agree, but that was also a weakness of this team. Our big guns -- Duda and Cespedes -- are streaky as hell, and were ice cold. Defensively, Wilmer and Murphy ain't exactly Ozzie Smith and Tom Herr If Tom Herr Was a Good Defensive Second Baseman I Don't Remember to begin with. Tyler Clippard didn't record an out after August.

Yes, they played like shit, but in a five-game stretch, sometimes that happens.

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

Ceetar wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: 2006 featured a lot of experienced vets who began showing their age in ensuing years. 2015 featured a lot of hot young players. They could just be getting started (yay!) or they may have peaked early (boo!). Time will tell. I think a lot of that is hindsight.

Not really. I was critical of Minaya at the time for relying so heavily on "name" players to fill the gaps when I thought he might be better off finding less-known but more durable younger players who could offer the same production. Guys like LoDuca, El Duque, Valentin, Franco, Wagner, Alou, Green, and Oliver all contributed that year but it wasn't a team built for the long haul. In the ensuing years Minaya continued to sign older players who'd been successful elsewhere but wasn't as lucky having them click in Flushing.

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

seawolf17 wrote: Let's be honest with ourselves: Regardless of your expectations going into the year, and notwithstanding how heroically and deservedly they earned their way in, we have to confront the reality that the Mets played like absolute shit in this series, and that really sucks. We all understand how hard it is to get in. Then to go out and put up 4 stinkers out of 5. So disheartening. I feel like they owed themselves, and the baseball-watching world, a better effort. I agree, but that was also a weakness of this team. Our big guns -- Duda and Cespedes -- are streaky as hell, and were ice cold. Defensively, Wilmer and Murphy ain't exactly Ozzie Smith and Tom Herr If Tom Herr Was a Good Defensive Second Baseman I Don't Remember to begin with. Tyler Clippard didn't record an out after August. Yes, they played like shit, but in a five-game stretch, sometimes that happens.

And I know people don't like to admit it, but the other team was pretty damned good and exploited the Mets' weaknesses. The best team in baseball doesn't always win, but in 2015, I think they did (c/w 2000 and 2006 where the Mets lost to clearly inferior teams).

Edited November 3, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

I agree.

Valentin was cool, though. And they got him on an NRI deal.

Most otherwise, though, they bought that team.

[seawolf17]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: And I know people don't like to admit it, but the other team was pretty damned good and exploited the Mets' weaknesses. The best team in baseball doesn't always win, but in 2015, I think they did (c/w 2000 and 2006 where the Mets lost to clearly inferior teams).

Very much agree. Our strengths were pitchers who strike guys out and batters who hit home runs. We didn't strike anyone out and our home runs didn't amount to enough.

[TransMonk]

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: Let's be honest with ourselves: Regardless of your expectations going into the year, and notwithstanding how heroically and deservedly they earned their way in, we have to confront the reality that the Mets played like absolute shit in this series, and that really sucks. We all understand how hard it is to get in. Then to go out and put up 4 stinkers out of 5. So disheartening. I feel like they owed themselves, and the baseball-watching world, a better effort. This. If they played like they did in the Cubs or Dodgers series and lost, it would have hurt a lot less. From the Cespedes failed circus trick in Game 1 to Muffy's error in Game 5, their performance was a dog's breakfast.

Again, I'll say the Mets had KNOWN weaknesses (i.e., average bullpen, average fielding, inability to hold on and throw out base runners). These weaknesses were a part of why they lost. The heads talked leading up to the series about how much better the Royals were in their bullpen and with their defense. They are what they are...it's not like they played stellar D all year and then lost it last week.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think the Mets bullpen was average. I think it was and is a strong bullpen. They had a 3.48 bullpen ERA (compared to a league average of 3.66) and a WHIP of 1.235 (league average = 1.298). And they were augmented in the end by two strong starters.

Average fielding? Well, I'd say that's probably as generous as the notion of an average bullpen is ungenerous. At least.

[G-Fafif]

I feel like Game Six tonight, deGrom refreshed and ready to make amends for Game Two, the offense prepared to quash Cueto. Let's tie this Series and send it to Game Seven!

What?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, a few weeks ago I was comparing the list of home-grown (meaning never played for any big league team other than the Mets) players from 2006 who were getting their first playoff experience to the those on the 2015 Mets. And the 2015 list is A LOT longer.

2006 had Wright and Reyes. And Maine and Heilman. And Feliciano. And maybe one or two others who I'm forgetting now.

But 2015? Harvey. DeGrom. Syndergaard. Matz. Familia. Duda. Murphy. Lagares. Conforto. Flores. Tejada. Robles. Niese. Nieuwenhuis. D'Arnaud. I think I felt a stronger connection to the 2015 team because of this.

(The lists in 1986 and 1969 were also longer than the list in 2006.)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

seawolf17 wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: And I know people don't like to admit it, but the other team was pretty damned good and exploited the Mets' weaknesses. The best team in baseball doesn't always win, but in 2015, I think they did (c/w 2000 and 2006 where the Mets lost to clearly inferior teams). Very much agree. Our strengths were pitchers who strike guys out and batters who hit home runs. We didn't strike anyone out and our home runs didn't amount to enough.

Isn't that a big ugly failure then? I'm not diminishing anything, but we had supposed weaknesses and lost with them. The Royals had weaknesses (below-average scoring, terrible OBP) and won with them. In some cases (cough Clippard! cough) their weaknesses became strengths in this series. That sucks!

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

TransMonk wrote: Let's be honest with ourselves: Regardless of your expectations going into the year, and notwithstanding how heroically and deservedly they earned their way in, we have to confront the reality that the Mets played like absolute shit in this series, and that really sucks. We all understand how hard it is to get in. Then to go out and put up 4 stinkers out of 5. So disheartening. I feel like they owed themselves, and the baseball-watching world, a better effort. This. If they played like they did in the Cubs or Dodgers series and lost, it would have hurt a lot less. From the Cespedes failed circus trick in Game 1 to Muffy's error in Game 5, their performance was a dog's breakfast. Again, I'll say the Mets had KNOWN weaknesses (i.e., average bullpen, average fielding, inability to hold on and throw out base runners). These weaknesses were a part of why they lost. The heads talked leading up to the series about how much better the Royals were in their bullpen and with their defense. They are what they are...it's not like they played stellar D all year and then lost it last week.

I acknowledge the weaknesses -- but you don't beat 3 of the best pitchers in baseball and sweep a 97 game winner one day and then play like shit on cheesy biscuits the next. This is why for me most of the blame should fall on the manager, not the players.

A long time ago somebody told me "when you think you're doing well, double your efforts." In the Mets case, they halved their efforts.

[Ceetar]

to me the Mets biggest strength advantage was starting pitching, and the Royals stepped up in that department. The Royals made mistakes too, they just came at better times. They bunched their hits better. Mets home runs came before walks instead of after them.

Take the last game, plenty of people were all "3 hits doesn't get it done" forgetting that they'd had a few more baserunners than the Royals to that point.

It happens. They didn't play well but I think a lot of that gets compounded by some bad timing too. Their gambles worked out, ours didn't.

Royals are pretty good. Pirates and Blue Jays might've been better. It's really hard to say for sure, but yeah, it's not like they lost to some 87 win team that backed into the playoffs and had just enough to get to the WS and have their guys perform in that small 5 game sample.

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

Ceetar wrote: to me the Mets biggest strength advantage was starting pitching, and the Royals stepped up in that department. The Royals made mistakes too, they just came at better times. They bunched their hits better. Mets home runs came before walks instead of after them.

Yep. Facing a team that doesn't whiff was always going to nullify the Mets greatest strength. I posted about this in the TOR-KC IST.

[TransMonk]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think the Mets bullpen was average. I think it was and is a strong bullpen. They had a 3.48 bullpen ERA (compared to a league average of 3.66) and a WHIP of 1.235 (league average = 1.298)

The bullpen ERA in Sep/Oct was 4.65 (24th in MLB) and a 1.32 WHIP (20th in MLB)...and that's with Familia's 2.19 ERA and 1.135WHIP over that stretch. Over the season they were above average, but it seems to me that they limped into the post.

[Ceetar]

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: Ceetar wrote: to me the Mets biggest strength advantage was starting pitching, and the Royals stepped up in that department. The Royals made mistakes too, they just came at better times. They bunched their hits better. Mets home runs came before walks instead of after them. Yep. Facing a team that doesn't whiff was always going to nullify the Mets greatest strength. I posted about this in the TOR-KC IST.

Actually evidence suggests it was fatigue that nullified the strength, the Royals just were best situated to take advantage of it. I meant that the Royals pitchers performed better than expected.

[Centerfield]

I don't know. I'm still so mad.

I guess it's ok.

I'm starting to realize being distracted at work didn't have anything to do with the World Series.

[Edgy MD]

I think Harvey deserves credit for adapting. Our starters pound the strike zone, and they were facing a lineup that makes good contact, but doesn't walk. The adaptation was to make them chase.

I think all the starters were adapting and would have continued, but they ran out of time. The offense and defense didn't buy them enough time.

I'm not particularly disappointed in the starting pitching. They kept us in every game. But, you know, we could have made that pivot before game one.

[Frayed Knot]

Do you feel like we do? -- Bob Mayo on keyboards, Bob Mayo

[Centerfield]

I'm much better today. Probably the first time since Saturday night I have not felt the need to curse every time my mind wanders.

The funny thing is, if the Mets had failed to make the playoffs, or been bounced early, I think I would be really looking forward to 2016 as the year we make our big move. But because they went to the World Series, I've been moping around thinking they blew their big chance, and they may never get back there again. This is foolish. And I'm starting to realize that now.

Everyone talked about how exceptional it is that KC lost one year and won it the next. And how the Mets should not expect that to happen for them. And although this exact scenario is strange, multiple World Series appearances are not. In fact, it's pretty common. In the past 10 years, there have been only 11 participants. And that's because seven of those teams (Giants, Cardinals, Red Sox, Royals, Rangers, Phillies, Tigers) have appeared at least twice (Giants and Cardinals have appeared 3x each). Only four teams (Rockies, Rays, Yankees and Mets) are one-time participants. The Rockies and Rays were flukish and were dismantled afterwards. The Yankees suck. And the Mets are just starting their run. So what this tells us, is that good teams tend to make the World Series, and chances are, they tend to get there more than once. And I would argue that none of those other 10 teams had the rotation the Mets have just built.

Of the last ten WS Champions, 3 of them (4 if you count the Cardinals twice) have also lost a World Series during this run.

Sure. It's tough when you think about 1986 and 2006. But there are key differences. In the 80's, only 2 teams made the playoffs. I read someplace that if there were four divisions and Wild Cards, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year from '85 to '90. That's 6 Octobers. You'd think they would find a way to get back there at least once (imagine '85 Gooden in the playoffs? Wow). And I tend to think the 2006 team had no pitching at all. Think about that team, not one starter would make the post-season roster in 2015. Glavine maybe beats out Niese for 5th starter during the year, but it's close.

So fuck the wound-licking. Fuck the talk of 16 years until our next one. Let's go on our run. We're going to win it all next year.

[Centerfield]

(and if not, we'll win it the year after that.)

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

Edgy MD wrote: I think Harvey deserves credit for adapting. Our starters pound the strike zone, and they were facing a lineup that makes good contact, but doesn't walk. The adaptation was to make them chase. I think all the starters were adapting and would have continued, but they ran out of time. The offense and defense didn't buy them enough time.

This is actually an astute observation.

[Edgy MD]

It happens sometimes. Weird, isn't it?

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

Woke up one other day
The pain won't go away
I am growing
In peculiar ways
Into a light I pass
Another dream, another trance
This time, this time
This time I'm gonna rise into the light
In or out of time

[Lefty Specialist]

[Vic Sage]

what CF said... ditto.

I should make that my avatar.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: There's no point in fretting about the possibilities. Let's just hope they field a good team each year, and if they make it into October, we root for them just like we did this year. Nothing is guaranteed. We shouldn't expect anything to be guaranteed.

Very true, because expecting an annual World Series appearance to be guaranteed would make us too much like Yankee fans. Assuredly, none of us want that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: In the 80's, only 2 teams made the playoffs. I read someplace that if there were four divisions and Wild Cards, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year from '85 to '90. That's 6 Octobers. You'd think they would find a way to get back there at least once (imagine '85 Gooden in the playoffs? Wow).

'85 Doc in the playoffs is definitely a "wow" to think about. Plus Doc saved his best for the end of the regular season, just like Mike Scott did the following year. Any carry-over and Doc singlehandeldy might've carried those Mets.

But extra playoff teams in the 80's cuts both ways. If there were more teams qualifying, both the '86 crown and pennant are now at risk because the Mets woulda hadda win an extra series. And because all baseball playoff series are essentially coin flips, even if one of the teams won 108 regular season games ....

[Guest d'Kong76]

I feel like it should be 12:20 still, this week can't end fast enough.

[Centerfield]

Vic Sage wrote: what CF said... ditto. I should make that my avatar.

I think to myself, well I can't be all that crazy. Vic agrees with me more often than not.

If ever you get carted away in a straightjacket, I'm going to do a lot of self-reflection.