Shortstop 2015

[Edgy MD]

What shortstop would you trade Syndergaard --- or Syndergaard-plus --- for?

The likes of Seagar and Addison Russell aren't big-league ready. Correa is still two steps away and sustained a leg injury which has kept him out since June. Francisco Lindor seems to need some polish too, as his bat isn't there yet.

I think signs are pointed away from the team stockpiling prospects and toward graduating them and reinforcing at the big league level. Beyond signs, Alderson has said pretty explicitly that in trades he will be looking for big-league or big-league ready talent.

[Frayed Knot]

One caution about SS prospects is to choose which ones you expect to remain a SS - cuz those who don't often won't have to bat to be all that valuable once they're off of SS

[Edgy MD]

And that would put Lindor at the top of the list. Near big league ready and no questions about the defense. But Steamer agrees with me that the offense isn't looking to be ready, and projects 73 games and a 0.7 WAR for 2015.

I think we have to be prepared for a return of Flores and/or Tejada to be at least be an option. Or perhaps Flores at second and the shortstop the team gets being a more seasoned dude acquired for one or more of Murphy/Niese/Gee/Colon/Tejada.

Because if I'm trading Syndergaard for an unproven young shortstop, he'd better be named Robin Ripken or Ozzie Larkin.

[Centerfield]

I'm fine with Flores/Reynolds/Tejada. Hopefully they can get the job done until Cechini is ready.

Get me a corner outfielder (or two) that can mash and let's win the World Series.

[Theoldmole]

May be too early to give up on Flores developing as a hitter.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I'm not pretending to know what the answer at shortstop is, but I'm fairly sure that Tejada isn't it.

[Frayed Knot]

TheOldMole wrote: May be too early to give up on Flores developing as a hitter.

As a hitter? ... definitely too early.
As a short-stop? ... not so sure. I have little confidence that he'll ever be anything other than an occasional fill-in there.

[Vic Sage]

I don't know what his defensive numbers were this year, but Flores certainly passed the eye test for me. He has a strong, accurate arm and soft hands. Range is obviously the issue for him, but there have been HoF SSs with less than good range, if they made up for it with intelligent positioning and consistency on D, and a productive bat. Ripken and Jeter come immediately to mind.

I think the best is yet to come with Flores, and Tejada is a utility player at best. Reynolds? Who knows.

[Edgy MD]

Not so much for me. Strong, accurate arm? Certainly. Soft hands? Mostly.

But beyond the lack of range, there seemed to be a lack of footwork, flexibility, instinct, and imagination. All that may come, of course, as most of it is improvable if the commitment is there (both by the player and the organization).

But the real question is the bat. if that doesn't come, whether he can hack it on defense is a moot point.

[Ceetar]

The 2015 Mets can't afford to play around with Flores. As of Opening Day, he's not the answer. He can't hit or field enough.

He's got no position and potential. You swap him for someone, perhaps a slugging 1B/OF that's got unrealized potential. or a CI guy that can backup David who MUST get more offdays next year and maybe play first against some of the tougher lefties.

[Edgy MD]

He's got no potential?

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: He's got no potential?

he's got no position AND he has potential.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

What makes you so convinced? The kid is 22 and hit the living shit out of the ball. Limited defensively I'd say, probably not a good SS over a long period even, but I'd bet he'll outproduce Muffy beginning in '15, given equal opportunity to play. What do you say? Let's bet a beer on it.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What makes you so convinced? The kid is 22 and hit the living shit out of the ball. Limited defensively I'd say, probably not a good SS over a long period even, but I'd bet he'll outproduce Muffy beginning in '15, given equal opportunity to play. What do you say? Let's bet a beer on it.

He didn't even outproduce Tejada with the bat in 2014.

It's not that I'm convinced, it's that the facts suggest he's not a good hitter. I'm not denying he's not young and full of potential and very well might hit well in 2015, I'm just saying I don't see the 2015 Mets as a team that should make that gamble at the onset. He certainly hasn't gotten enough exposure to say boom or bust either, but nor has he gotten enough reps at SS to proclaim that either.

I'd be willing to make the bet but I'm not sure they'll get equal opportunity to play to really figure it out.

[Edgy MD]

And he's got top-shelf taste in beer.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: And he's got top-shelf taste in beer.

hmm? I missed that.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Sorry I thought you said he had no potential either. As often the case, the "facts" we look at tend to matter. If you discount to irregular work Flores got over the opening months of the season where he yo-yoed up and back and was used as a bench player, it's clear he was very much a better hitter than Tejada (and Tejada, it should be noted, was actually better once his regular gig went away and his PT became sporadic).

I know you shouldn't pick and choose what data to believe but context matters in this case especially. Flores was a poor player at first, an ok player when he first got a starting job then a friggin monster once he settled in, generating a line you might expect given how well he'd been hitting in the minors. He's a good hitter, I'm convinced. Look out for this goofy bastard in 15.

[Edgy MD]

I didn't see that as much. I thought he was all arms and could do almost nothing better than grounding out on pitches away.

Great hand/eye coordination could definitely keep him in at bats, and he crushed inside pitches and curves in his wheelhouse, and he certainly can adapt to those hard sliders.

So I'm certainly not bearish on his potential. I just liked Dilson's swing better, though I disagree with Centrifuge that Dilson looks like our opening day second baseman.

[Lefty Specialist]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What makes you so convinced? The kid is 22 and hit the living shit out of the ball. Limited defensively I'd say, probably not a good SS over a long period even, but I'd bet he'll outproduce Muffy beginning in '15, given equal opportunity to play. What do you say? Let's bet a beer on it.

If Flores was given one position and was allowed to remain in the lineup every day, I have no doubt he'd outproduce Murph over the course of a season. And that's no slight against Murphy, who is what he is- an above-average singles and doubles hitter and a less-than-average fielder.

Flores, in addition to being much younger, is a better fielder and has much more pop. He was told to play shortstop and did it passably. Now imagine Murphy at shortstop.

The problem is that you can't have both of them in the lineup as the middle infielders. One position has to be manned by a good fielder to help cover for the deficiencies of the other.

I don't think Murphy's going to get better or have more trade value than he does right now. So that, plus the realities of the Wilpons (much as we hate them) means he needs to be traded this winter.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not so convinced that Flores is necessarily a better fielder than Muh.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not sure Flores is a better hitter than Murph either - at least not initially.
More HR pop (in a small sample) and a decent minor lg resume, but fewer doubles, less speed, neither one walks all that much

The biggest problem with Murphy is his status as a player one year removed from FA. Even setting aside the questions about the Wilpon's finances for now, the big Matzoh ball out there is still the question as to how smart it would be to commit to Muffy on a multi-year deal starting when he turns 31 (~OD - 2016)
That essentially leads you with the choices of:
- seeing if he wants to sign now for a long-ish term contract and approx how much that would entail
- keeping him for 2015 at whatever the going rate for a single year is, then either doing the same dance next year or risk losing him for nothing
- dealing him now to fill holes elsewhere while we've got (younger/cheaper) others who can play his position (whether for better or worse still to be determined)

I find it tough to make arguments for choices A or B here

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy MD wrote: So I'm certainly not bearish on his potential. I just liked Dilson's swing better, though I disagree with Centrifuge that Dilson looks like our opening day second baseman.

You shut your whorish mouth.

[seawolf17]

"I miss you guys so much."

[Edgy MD]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So I'm certainly not bearish on his potential. I just liked Dilson's swing better, though I disagree with Centrifuge that Dilson looks like our opening day second baseman. You shut your whorish mouth.

Dimson nlooks mlike a heguva flayer, but mm'm not cghure mrushing him noo the smarting wineup wibout a mnay in toople-A izh a mnood igea.

[Lefty Specialist]

seawolf17 wrote: "I miss you guys so much."

Even if Toronto paid 2/3 of what he's owed the Wilpons wouldn't bite. He would solve 2 problems (SS and leadoff), but I just can't imagine a scenario where this would happen.

Plus, he hasn't been quite the same player since he left. Which is too bad because he was as electric as a player can get for a couple of years there with the Mets.

[Edgy MD]

Three problems: shortstop, leadoff, and fan faith.

I mean, I don't think his acquisition would actually solve any of those three, but it would speak to them.

[seawolf17]

For Murphy and Colon, and the Mets eat the entire salary.

MAKE IT HAPPEN, SANDY.

[Edgy MD]

Mets don't eat that way. Uh, uh.

The Mets didn't want the contract with the cheaper years and the younger Reyes coming off his best season included. Why would they want it now? It's paying top dollar for muffin stumps.

[ashie62]

I'd focus my attention talking to the Cubs about Starlin Castro or Addison Russell. Russell is likely near untouchable.

[Lefty Specialist]

Don't like Castro. When I see him play I think of this scene from Bull Durham: