Scott Kazmir has bad taste in music anyway probably IGT 6/24

[Edgy MD]

Well, unless a bullpen disaster occurs, that third homer will have to wait for another day.

[Edgy MD]

Guy Conti: genius!!!

Let's interview Young.

[Edgy MD]

And they do!!

[Zvon]

Great game. Very much needed. But truthfully, I had a better idea of what to do with CYoung and our outfield situation before this game. Not complaining. I like these problems.

[Frayed Knot]

And, see, it's actually possible to have a high-scoring game in less than 1-1/2 hours.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Joe West displaying that high-energy that he's known for from coast to coast. How did that not hurt? 75 pounds of padding up front?

Plus the padded Bro� he must be wearing.

[Ceetar]

by the time I remembered to remind the bowling alley to turn the Mets game on instead of ESPN it was already basically over. love it.

caught a Yankees play in the bar area when I was getting a drink. Reyes made a nice play at short to get someone, 6-1 Jays at the time.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: caught a Yankees play in the bar area when I was getting a drink. Reyes made a nice play at short to get someone, 6-1 Jays at the time.

And then Reyes made an error which not only let in two runs and tied things up 6-6 but nearly got his 1st baseman killed in the process
Reyes then led off the 9th with a double and scored the game-winner via a bunt+error on the very next pitch ... so I guess it was a good night on balance

That's actually two in a row for the Jays over the Yanx and four straight losses overall for da bombers.

[MFS62]

The best part was el Capitan had two brain farts that prolonged an inning and led to three Toronto runs. If he hadn't been making the players around him better, who knows how many runs it might have been?


Later

[Ceetar]

okay let's dredge up the yankees thread.

Tell me how awesome this game was I mostly missed for a work networking event (granted, bowling and beer so..)

2 HR for Chris Young actually gives him a higher wRC+ than Eric Young. Did he stave off eminent release? (probably, it's not like we're spoiled with options) Is a small ballpark team looking at him to maximize his diminished value? Could this be the first trade with the Yankees in a long while?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

MFYs don't want Chris Young. They have their own underperforming RH-hitting OF issue in Soriano.

I do think Young is saving his ass here, and I don't think the Mets are foolish to allow him to.

[Edgy MD]

I was trying to think about I'd trade one for the other, and then I realized the Yankees' bitter pill is costing them $10.5 million more to swallow. Crikey.

Alderson may not have rolled the dice on the right guy, but at least he kept the terms so as to limit the burden of the commitment. No dummy, he.

To answer, this game was truly wonderful. It cuddled up with me, spoke sweetly, and didn't stop till I wavered off to sleep, it's perfume sprinkle a summer rain lingering on the roses as I was claimed by a dreamland that could offer me few delights to compare.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: MFYs don't want Chris Young. They have their own underperforming RH-hitting OF issue in Soriano. I do think Young is saving his ass here, and I don't think the Mets are foolish to allow him to.

I just wish David Wright had more home runs than him.

[Vic Sage]

Zvon wrote: Zvon wrote: Joe West displaying that high-energy that he's known for from coast to coast. How did that not hurt? 75 pounds of padding up front? Plus the padded Bro� he must be wearing.

i thought that was called a "Manssiere"

and the "not bunting because of unwritten rule #14" thing...? I think that shit sucks. Hey, if a team is getting beat and doesn't want the opposing team to pile it on, i have an idea... instead of requiring the winning team to take their foot off the gas, how about the losing team showing some sack and play better?

"Sportsmanship"? Where is the sportsmanship in not playing your best at every moment, and doing all you're supposed to do? Frankly, i think that "showing pity" is more disrespectful to the losing team than continuing to play the game correctly. No, you don't want to play your best players (or older, more vulnerable players) every inning of such games, but that is proper marshaling of resources for a long season. Its about winning more games over the course of the season, not about giving the losing team a break in a particular game.

I think bunts are mostly stupid, but if its the pitcher, and you've got a substantial lead, then its appropriate to bunt to add on another one. You don't have to reserve the out in hopes of a big inning; 1 run will do, so bunt. And base stealers should continue to steal, if that's their game, and people should continue to run hard, and slide hard into bases, and run down hits in the OF, and pitchers should continue to throw breaking balls (if they have them) and not just lay it in there. Or are they supposed to stop all that, too? When? If your up by 10 runs or 12 or 8? By what inning? And who do you fire if a team comes back on you after you've stopped playing? The manager, right? And what if he said, "but i was only following the unwritten rule!" Hopefully his GM would laugh in his face and kick his ass out the door.

The reason some rules are unwritten is because they are not rules.

[RealityChuck]

I guess Jim Duquette was right, after all: Kazmir was never going to be able to pitch in Queens.

[Edgy MD]

The difference with the bunt, to me:

1) Let's accept for the moment that taking the extra base and stealing and leaving your best/hottest/older players in when a team has a substantial lead in the late innings is a bad thing. By a Western version of a Japanese code of honor, it is good to honor your opponent by not being aggressive while your opponent is down, by forcing plays that would not otherwise occur, and heck, may risk injury.

2) Even in that context, it's generally accepted that those players remaining in a game should do what it takes to not make outs --- to hit, walk, take extra bases in stand-up situations at least, to complete homerun trots. They have honor of their own to protect. And it honors neither yourself, the game, the fans, nor the opponent to intentionally fail outright and subtract points from one's averages. It's a game of percentages. Failure is counted against you at the end of the year.

3) In that sense, why should the (very weak-hitting) pitcher be forced to give up his naturally occurring role there? He is forced not to accept what is handed to him ---- a sacrifice situation, which spares him the indignity of swinging the bat --- and forced to do what he is worst at and damage his own already abysmal batting record.

It's good to have conversations about the unwritten rules of blowouts once in a while, because it means that our team actually blew somebody out.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vic Sage wrote: and the "not bunting because of unwritten rule #14" thing...? I think that shit sucks. Hey, if a team is getting beat and doesn't want the opposing team to pile it on, i have an idea... instead of requiring the winning team to take their foot off the gas, how about the losing team showing some sack and play better? "Sportsmanship"? Where is the sportsmanship in not playing your best at every moment, and doing all you're supposed to do? Frankly, i think that "showing pity" is more disrespectful to the losing team than continuing to play the game correctly. No, you don't want to play your best players (or older, more vulnerable players) every inning of such games, but that is proper marshaling of resources for a long season. Its about winning more games over the course of the season, not about giving the losing team a break in a particular game. I think bunts are mostly stupid, but if its the pitcher, and you've got a substantial lead, then its appropriate to bunt to add on another one. You don't have to reserve the out in hopes of a big inning; 1 run will do, so bunt. And base stealers should continue to steal, if that's their game, and people should continue to run hard, and slide hard into bases, and run down hits in the OF, and pitchers should continue to throw breaking balls (if they have them) and not just lay it in there. Or are they supposed to stop all that, too? When? If your up by 10 runs or 12 or 8? By what inning? And who do you fire if a team comes back on you after you've stopped playing? The manager, right? And what if he said, "but i was only following the unwritten rule!" Hopefully his GM would laugh in his face and kick his ass out the door. The reason some rules are unwritten is because they are not rules.

Totally agree. If the losing team doesn't wanna get scored on anymore, they can walk off the field and forfeit the game. 'Cause unless they sign a binding stipulation promising not to score any more runs, the team with the lead should keep on trying to score. Now in football, or pre possession clock basketball, a team with a comfortable lead could tone down the offense without risking a loss by simply running out the clock. Can't do that in baseball. Can't run out the clock in baseball. (See, Earl Weaver, Ken Burns Baseball, 1969 Mets footage)

[seawolf17]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Totally agree. If the losing team doesn't wanna get scored on anymore, they can walk off the field and forfeit the game. 'Cause unless they sign a binding stipulation promising not to score any more runs, the team with the lead should keep on trying to score. Now in football, or pre possession clock basketball, a team with a comfortable lead could tone down the offense without risking a loss by simply running out the clock. Can't do that in baseball. Can't run out the clock in baseball. (See, Earl Weaver, Ken Burns Baseball, 1969 Mets footage)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/minor-league-team-clinton-lumberjacks-rally-from-16-run-deficit-to-win-050714

[Vic Sage]

1) Let's accept for the moment that taking the extra base and stealing and leaving your best/hottest/older players in when a team has a substantial lead in the late innings is a bad thing. By a Western version of a Japanese code of honor, it is good to honor your opponent by not being aggressive while your opponent is down, by forcing plays that would not otherwise occur, and heck, may risk injury.

but i don't accept that premise (not that i'm saying its YOUR view, or criticizing you for raising it, since it is very much the current understanding). As i said i agree about not risking your best/oldest players late in such games, but that's just about protecting assets for future use, not about "honoring" the opponent. But the idea that taking the extra base or stealing in that situation, or otherwise playing aggressively, is verboten out of a sense of honor, is what i reject. I think its dishonorable to your opponent (and to your fans, and employers) to to give less than your best effort at all times, regardless of score or situation.

I recognize that this is not the accepted view, and running with a big lead in late innings could end up with a pitcher putting his next pitch in the hitter's ear. But i look at like guys who don't bother to run down hard to 1b on an a lazy fly ball. Yeah, hardly any of them do it, so its unfair to call out Robbie Cano (for example) for doing it, but it still sucks and disrespects the game.

All that fans have a right to expect from their teams is maximum effort, all the time. You can't always have the best players, or the best team, but there is no reason everybody shouldn't be doing everything they're supposed to do, and when they don't (out of respect for some sort of jock fraternalism, or out of laziness or stupidity), i get pissed off.

[Edgy MD]

Well, I'm just asking you to accept it for the sake of argument. For an ephemeral moment, in order to explore the logic of the bunt play. It's a non-committal thing.

[Vic Sage]

i took your meaning.
i'm just sayin'...

[Centerfield]

Press Release from NY Mets

Dear Opponents:

This is to let all of you know that we have instructed our players to play hard every inning of every game regardless of score. Should we do so in a game where we are up by a considerable margin, do not take this as a slight. We do this out of respect to your ability to come back and win.

Also our bullpen sucks. We are relying on guys like Dana Eveland. Who is Dana Eveland? Exactly. Farnsworth, Valverde, Scott Rice, cut us a break here. Even our closer now is doing it for the first time ever, and our 8th inning guy has trouble throwing strikes.

So don't be a dick and throw a tantrum when we bunt a runner over when we are up by 5. Ok?

Sincerely, the New York Mets.

[Guest themetfairy]

Press Release from NY Mets Dear Opponents: This is to let all of you know that we have instructed our players to play hard every inning of every game regardless of score. Should we do so in a game where we are up by a considerable margin, do not take this as a slight. We do this out of respect to your ability to come back and win. Also our bullpen sucks. We are relying on guys like Dana Eveland. Who is Dana Eveland? Exactly. Farnsworth, Valverde, Scott Rice, cut us a break here. Even our closer now is doing it for the first time ever, and our 8th inning guy has trouble throwing strikes. So don't be a dick and throw a tantrum when we bunt a runner over when we are up by 5. Ok? Love and Kisses, the New York Mets.

There - fixed

[batmagadanleadoff]

The irony over this "bunt" brouhaha is that if major league baseball players weren't so fucking stupid, they'd understand that the Mets, by bunting, were in fact being merciful.

[Frayed Knot]

Flicked by Francesa's show for literally ten seconds or so this afternoon and caught the tail end of some caller complaining about Murphy NOT bunting. Since I didn't hear the beginning of the call I'm not sure of his exact beef but it seemed to be about the 1st inning last night when Muffy K'd after EYJ's leadoff single before he later got picked off.
Caller seemed to think that instructing your top BA hitter to intentionally make an out in the 1st inning was both a proper and necessary move. To Francesa's credit he wasn't buying any of it.


And, yeah, it wasn't good to hear both Keith & Ron agree with the no-bunt edict during Colon's last AB, but nor was it surprising. Old habits die hard and here you've got two 60 & 55-ish y/o ex-players whose time was now a quarter century or more ago and learned the game from their fathers whose time obviously goes back a quarter century or so before that. And since they both played there seems to be less of a chance that they're going to be open to thinking they can learn new things from those who didn't play at their level.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The irony over this "bunt" brouhaha is that if major league baseball players weren't so fucking stupid, they'd understand that the Mets, by bunting, were in fact being merciful.

Well, I wouldn't call it a brouhaha. I just brought it up because of all the moral ambiguity.

I don't think Keith and Ron were endorsing so much as reporting the wherefores. It's a small thing to make a big stink over one way or the other.