Mike & The Mikettes: 2014 HOF Ballot

[metsmarathon]

Ceetar wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Gwreck wrote: -Larry Rocca votes for Trammell, Raines, Jack Morris and Hideo Nomo. Rocca followed Bobby V to the Chiba Lotte Marines as his Jay Horwitz, so maybe there's something about Nomo's role as a pioneer in the US that appealed to him. That's the only reason I can come up with for any vote for Nomo, two no-hitters and fantastic rookie season notwithstanding. But why he'd omit Maddux is a mystery (unless he was protecting the 98.84% legacy, in which case, what a great voter!). He explained on facebook and someone tweeted. Nomo he felt because he came from Japan and was a pioneer and presumed clean, by him, that that's good. Glavine and Maddux on the other hand, those bums, didn't use their connections to clean up the game, so as guilty as everyone else that played during that time.

i would be willing to accept some sort of game-theory answer on voting for marginal players as opposed to top-line players who all the other voters would be voting for, with the intent of ensuring they hang around the ballot for just a little bit longer until such time as there's a less meaty ballot to weigh.

though unless the guys you're not voting for are such "first-ballot locks" as maddux and the like, this strategy could easily backfire into more of a logjam if enough voters were to try it.



not voting for maddux because he could've spoken up more is stupid.

they all could have.

in fact every player since the dawn of hte players union is at fault for not ensuring that their house is clean, be it from greenies, steroids, anything. there's blood on ALL of their hands.

where was the leadership in the supposed "pre-steroid" era to get the amphetamines out of the game? why didn't they lock down the doors at the first hints of steroids as a performance enhancer back in the 70s (and probably sooner)? fucking utter bullshit.

to hold this current crop of hall of fame candidates at fault for the history of the league and the players association and, hell, all of human history and human nature, is bullshit. especially when those who could have been the voice of the public, could have spoken up at any point.

but none of the writers did, did they?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Heck, here is a list of hall the writers who sounded the alarm:









So if there is blame for not speaking up, it's on their hands as well. Deciding to write about bacne and back hair a decade later is crap.

[Edgy MD]

Well, playing Rocca here for a minute, I imagine the thinking is that, yes, they all could've, but he voted against everyone except three who secured their legacies before the strike and one who was new to the league and spoke little English.

He also might hold the Braves clubhouse as particularly polluted (I would guess it was in the middle) and Maddux enjoyed way too much benefit from polluted sluggers in his lineup.

It's a slim hair, but one that I don't blame writers for working hard at trying to split. Challenge him to follow his logic to its conclusion, sure, but outrage I think is unwarranted. Clearly he's trying to construct an honest and consistent position.

[G-Fafif]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Heck, here is a list of hall the writers who sounded the alarm: So if there is blame for not speaking up, it's on their hands as well. Deciding to write about bacne and back hair a decade later is crap.

Bryan Curtis on the silent alarms:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10261642/mlb-hall-fame-voting-steroid-era

[Frayed Knot]

I suspect some of this "not speaking up" stuff is slyly being directed at Glavine on account of his being one of the top dogs within the Player's Association during a chunk of his career.
It would be nice if someone is going to think that way that he'd have the guts to come out and actually say so.

[Edgy MD]

Slow down, little girl.

[youtube:3c9q4i87]uGSyc1FZoOI[/youtube:3c9q4i87]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

lololololollllollol. GENIUS

[Edgy MD]

It is genius. What a vocabulary that guy has. Given sometimes as little as a second to embody a guy, one small hand gesture or bat loop or eye squint does the trick.

[Edgy MD]

I just rewatched and didn't get the ending until now.

[Frayed Knot]

[G-Fafif]

That got better and better until it couldn't get any better...and then it did anyway.

[Zvon]

Absolutely classic. Big laugh at Clemens. He knows his shit. Those kids were great too.

[Benjamin Grimm]

LaRussa and Maddux to have "blank" caps on the Hall of Fame plaques.

[Edgy MD]

Maddux? Strange.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: Maddux? Strange.

Divided allegiances between Cubs and Braves?

[Edgy MD]

I would guess that, like Gary Carter in the Mets cap, there's just too much Chicago-based money available to allow yourself to be represented as a Brave in perpetuity.

Hey, remember when Roger Clemens said that he would refuse to show up to his own HoF induction ceremony if he had anything other than a Yankee logo on his plaque?

[Benjamin Grimm]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Divided allegiances between Cubs and Braves?

I'm sure that's it, but I think of him in Atlanta much more than in Chicago.

Cox and Glavine will have Atlanta caps on their plaques. Torre a Yankee, Thomas a White Sock.

[TransMonk]

Blank? Ugh.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't care at all about hats on plaques. So dumb! The real challenge is getting the guys' face right.

[MFS62]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't care at all about hats on plaques. So dumb! The real challenge is getting the guys' face right.

In the case of Joe Torre, I'm not sure they will want to be all that accurate.

Later

[HahnSolo]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: Divided allegiances between Cubs and Braves? I'm sure that's it, but I think of him in Atlanta much more than in Chicago. Cox and Glavine will have Atlanta caps on their plaques. Torre a Yankee, Thomas a White Sock.

11 full years as a Brave, 8 full seasons but parts of 10 with the Cubs. But yeah, I would have thought he'd go in as a Brave.

[batmagadanleadoff]

This business with the which cap on the plaque is so antiquated. And stupid. Players like Greg Maddux have to make a zero sum choice between teams that they've played on for significant portions of their careers and made meaningful contributions to their history. Why not ditch the plaques for some computerized plasma screen for each player? With changing images. Depicting the HOF'er in every phase of his career. So that his whole career is represented?

[stevejrogers]

For obvious reasons baseball is the only one of the big four Halls where this tends to be an issue

Pro Football Hall of Fame


Basketball Hall of Fame

[batmagadanleadoff]

Having never been to either the Basketball or Football Halls of Fame, I can't figure out what your trying to say, or what those pictures depict.

OE -- OK. I see that the football HOF'er busts are logoless. Head shots. That's probably so because a football helmet would obscure the HOFers' facial features ... not some compromise related to the teams each HOF'er played for.

[Frayed Knot]

In a world where Oscar Gamble is in the HoF and Cooperstown displayed busts without hats, would his be carved with a giant afro?
Man I hope so.

There's got to be some NFL player with a serious '70s 'fro. Or maybe John Riggins with his mohawk.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: This business with the which cap on the plaque is so antiquated. And stupid. Players like Greg Maddux have to make a zero sum choice between teams that they've played on for significant portions of their careers and made meaningful contributions to their history. Why not ditch the plaques for some computerized plasma screen for each player? With changing images. Depicting the HOF'er in every phase of his career. So that his whole career is represented?

Makes sense to me.

And often times these decisions reflect back to the team. If Maddux chooses a Cubs hat for instance, does he still get hired by the Braves to do things? Or vice versa? If he's looking to get in the radio booth one day, does having the wrong cap reflect badly on his chances to get the job?

Well, still better than setting fire to the woods behind your house I guess.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Having never been to either the Basketball or Football Halls of Fame, I can't figure out what your trying to say, or what those pictures depict. OE -- OK. I see that the football HOF'er busts are logoless. Head shots. That's probably so because a football helmet would obscure the HOFers' facial features ... not some compromise related to the teams each HOF'er played for.

So basically "off with their hats!"
Thats a tough sell for a few reasons. I would endorse hats on if the choice was left in the players hands. Since its not I have np with hats off. Cept for Piazza.

And Wright.

[stevejrogers]

Frayed Knot wrote: In a world where Oscar Gamble is in the HoF and Cooperstown displayed busts without hats, would his be carved with a giant afro? Man I hope so. There's got to be some NFL player with a serious '70s 'fro. Or maybe John Riggins with his mohawk.

Sadly no to Riggins

[stevejrogers]

Warren Sapp's braids did make it though...

[Frayed Knot]

Frayed Knot wrote: I have no problem believing that Piazza took steroids (as I've said before, anyone and everyone is suspect from that era) but parts of what Chass here is basing it on is either demonstrably false or highly speculative. �There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids,� says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. �Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. �Power from nowhere,� we called it.� Fine, but Piazza was always big, bigger than his brothers (even the older one), bigger than other kids his age, and worked at his strength from a young age. And this "power from nowhere" stuff doesn't hold up either, not as an amateur and not when he was hitting 50+ HRs over two seasons in the minors as a 22/23 y/o. The bottom line is that what Chass seems to be doing here is looking for one instance, one second-hand rumor, or one twice-relayed statement that will allow him to disqualify someone for taking PEDs. So if some third party says that he thinks Biggio took drugs or that someone told someone else that he did then that's good enough for him. He's allowed his opinion but it's a stupid way to go filling out a HoF ballot.

The "fact" that Piazza was a player who "sucked" until suddenly becoming a late bloomer as a power hitter gets further rebuttal over at Amazin' Avenue