Win one for Dad IGT 6/16/13 Cubs @ NYM

[Frayed Knot]

Speaking of Olberman, he'll be in the studio for TBS's coverage of their portion of this year's post-season.
Make of that what you will.

[Vic Sage]

i used to be a bit of an apologist for Costas. He is bright and articulate, and clearly loves the game, and so when he gets on his puritanical high horse, i usually think "well, somebody has to advocate for the game itself; nobody in baseball seems to do so."

But this is a just a cheap shot, and niggardly in spirit. I used to think Bob was only small on the outside.

By the way, i was at the Steve Henderson game, with my dad. My voice is still a little hoarse from screaming that night.

[Edgy MD]

I was wondering where Jim Malone stood on this.

[Ceetar]

I felt a little weird about Aarsdma commenting about 'the team needing it' like he was part of much of any of the struggle.

[Edgy MD]

Teams win and teams lose, man. And teams absorb national criticism. I'm sure Aardsma's joy wasn't partiucarly diminished because he wasn't a direct participant. Malone's wasn't. Mine wasn't. I'd rather be the hero, but the struggle was everybody's, the joy was everybody's, and the sting of Costas' comment belongs to everybody also.

[Fman99]

I agree with everyone. Bob Costas can go fuck a tiny inflatable doll with realistic crevices.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Swan Swan H wrote: A solo homer down five runs - the equivalent of your football example below - should be observed by running at a good pace around the bases and politely shaking hands with the third base coach and next batter. A three run homer to cap a last inning four-run comeback is a different thing.

Frayed Knot wrote: At times there occurs obviously pre-planned celebrations that overrun any supposed spontaneity right out of the park (I remember one courtesy of Prince Fielder and the Brewers a few years back); but, at the same time, there's a difference between a play that ends a game--particularly when that play turns what looked like sure defeat into final victory in one brief second--and what the NFL tried to crack down on which were often ridiculous and over-the-top celebrations of a single play within a game that were mostly designed for the sole purpose of calling attention to oneself. Once the game's over, I don't have a problem with whatever they want to do. I was just afraid that Kirk was going to Kendry Morales himself.

The irony here is that pitchers who bean batters who slow-pace it around the bases after a HR, without a reasonable suspicion that they've been purposely shown up, annoy me even more. I suppose that the players are free to allow customs to develop as they collectively see fit. It's their game. But I can't reconcile the Valdespin beaning of a few weeks ago, with yesterday's acceptable over-the-top end of game on-field celebration by the Mets team. Yes, it's obvious that one celebration follows a game winning hit and the other didn't even give Valdy's team a tie, but I'm not convinced that this explanation (an observation, really) justifies one over the other. I know that if I was a player on the Mets opponents in either of the two situations, neither of the two expressions of joy would offend me unless I believed that the celebrations were motivated, in part, by a desire to mock me or my team, or rub it in. If it's OK for a team miles away from contention to whoop it up on the field like yesterday's Mets, after a win, then guys like Valdy shouldn't have to expect beanings after cadillacing their HR's. There's not a whole lot of consistency in determining what goes and what doesn't. Sammy Sosa's bunny hop hop out of the batter's box following long blasts is about the most annoying, contrived thing I've ever seen, in any sport. And I'd hate it even more if I was his teammate instead of his opponent because that dance move surely cost him two or three strides. I'm not aware that Sosa was ever beaned for that hop either. MLB should follow the NFL's approach and prevent players from deciding what is and isn't offensive and then self-enforcing supposed affronts like some Old West posse. Everything goes unless the umps say otherwise.

[metsmarathon]

in fairness, the prince fielder choreographed walk-off celebration was genius. pure genius.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I don't want to quote Batmags post strictly for space purposes, but I totally get where he is going there, and don't entirely disagree. Me, I'd be more offended by a guy putting on a show for a solo homer that put his team up 12-2 than one that put them behind 12-2.

I guess I feel that in baseball if someone does something that wins a game, it's worth celebrating more than any act during the course of the game. The game is over, we won, and let's enjoy it. baseball, by it's nature, lends itself more to this sudden outburst than football, which rarely has overtime games, and basketball, which has timed overtime. When a hockey game ends in OT the players rush the ice and hammer the goal scorer, and nothing is thought of it regardless of the team's place in the standings. Walk-off wins can only happen at home in baseball, which also plays to the celebration factor a bit.

Look, Costas was being a dick. If he was doing a piece on a talk show or a newsmagazine show about celebrations, fine. Provide some historical perspective, and get on with it. This was a cut-in on the US Open in which, repeating myself here, he chose to show one game among the many that had been completed, and he chose it just to make this point. He was playing to an audience of Grand Marquis owners in velcro sneakers, and was waiting for the crowd to raise their liver-spotted fists and shout 'Yer goddamn right.' And most of them probably did.

[Frayed Knot]

I also Bats is seeing almost an equivalency in what I see as a gulf-size difference between a display of self-aggrandizement for a play within a game (especially one which may not wind up having any affect on the game) and the reaction to winning a game. It's the outcome the Mets were celebrating yesterday, not Nieuwenhuis celebrating himself for the HR, not for a sack in the middle of the 2nd quarter, or even Valdy's HR in a blow-out.

MLB should follow the NFL's approach and prevent players from deciding what is and isn't offensive and then self-enforcing supposed affronts like some Old West posse. Everything goes unless the umps say otherwise.

My only reaction to this is that if you're happy with that rule I suspect you're one of the few. To me (admittedly only a casual football fan) it seems like an image-polishing stunt by the league but the line between what's acceptable and what's over the line is far from clear and I don't hear too many hardcore grid fans who like it either.
It all kind of strikes me like the federal gov't trying to define what's art and what's smut. Usually unworkable and it makes no one happy.

[Zvon]

Just to clarify my opinion. A come from behind (in one swing) walk-off homer is a big deal. It stands way above things like walk-off singles, or even a tied game walk-off kaboom. Emotionally its a mood swing that even the players must experience, maybe even more so.

On the other hand, I can't think of any time a player should showboat around the bases (this includes bat tossing) in the middle of a game, regardless of the importance of the home run. Even sticking up your hand with a #1 finger is a bit much IMO, unless the homer literally put the guys team in first place.
There are game ending celebrations, and should be.
For players, anything within the game (batting wise) should only be celebrated on the path from home to the dugout (example:w/3rd base coach:hi 5 / the guy(s) you drove or the on deck guy:hi-5, handshake or whatevr). And in the dugout they can get more animated if they wish to.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Nieuwenhuis to his credit put his head down and ran the bases considerably faster than required for a second-deck, game-winning, 3-run homer to complete an improbable comeback. eff Bob Costas, proof of the decline of western civilization is that people pay him to be on tv at all.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Yeah, and he appeared in BASEketball for chrissake!

[TransMonk]

He's sorry:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/69806/bob-costas-apologizes-to-mets

[metirish]

I like Terry's quote there at the end.

[Zvon]

metirish wrote: I like Terry's quote there at the end.

Ha! Worth repeating:

Asked if he would have been more concerned with no celebration, Collins said: "If they just packed up their crap and went inside, yeah I'd be a little concerned."

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

That would be a whole 'nother level of Mets' ennui.

[Edgy MD]

Mets Win in Dramatic
Fashion, Despair at
Awareness That They
Are Still the Mets
Duda: "It's Not Like That
Somehow Makes Fourth Place
Cool --- Marcum's Still a BP
Pitcher and Frankly, I'm Still
A Golem; Fuck It!"
Two Hurt in Race to Shower

New York (June 13) _______________________
_______________________________________
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_______________________________________
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[dinosaur jesus]

You guys get it. That's why I like coming here. When I hear things like that crap from Costas, my impulse is to get all pontifical (I've won pontification contests; you don't want to mess with me) and say things like "Bob Costas may not care what happens in a Mets-Cubs game. Most baseball fans may not care. But the Mets care, the Cubs care, their fans care, and if something good happens for them in the middle of a miserable season, they have as much right as anyone to celebrate. And where I see the downfall of civilization is in the idea that only the winners matter, that only they are entitled to be excited by a dramatic victory. It isn't only the winners who matter, Mr. Costas. It's all of us--the winners, the losers (who tomorrow might be winners), and the most of us who live somewhere in between. Etc." But you guys already know all that.

I did give some shit to an idiot who posted on Yahoo, though. It felt pretty good.

[Frayed Knot]

The more I think about it the more I think Costas simply thought he was being funny.
I didn't see the original report (I was in and out of the golf) but those in-event breaks usually give him half-a-minute or so for a rest-of-the-world in sports update so he chose to focus on the hi-light combining the best visual and the best opportunity for a combination old-school admonishment/wise-crack.
He missed his mark and probably wasn't prepared for the mini shit-storm that followed but I don't think there was anything particularly malicious about it.

[Zvon]

Costas has many positive attributes but I've never considered a sense of humor among them. So you might be right.

[batmagadanleadoff]

From 1998 (the first year of existence for both the Rays nee Devil Rays and Diamondbacks) through 2012, the Mets have hit three walk off home runs -- tied for next to last with the Royals, and better only than the Cubs. The Reds lead in that category/time period with 15 woHR's - five times as many as the Mets.

Newy's woHR was only the 7th in franchise history coming with the Mets down by two or three runs. (It's impossible to hit a woHR down by more than three).

8-21-62 Thronebery v Pitt (Face) down 4-2
6-7-1963 Snider v StL (Olivo) down 2-0
6-26-63 Harkness v Cubs (Brewer) down 6-4
6-14-80 Henderson v SF (Ripley) down 6-4
9-5-83 Foster v Phil (Holland) down 5-3
8-30-92 Bonilla v Cinn (Dibble) down 3-1 (throwback night - Dibble rips off his throwback top as he walks off mound while Bonilla circles bases)

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/6/18/4440026/bob-costas-mets-kirk-nieuwenhuis-decline-of-western-civilization-chris-holmes-wasp-pool-mother

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: From 1998 ... through 2012, the Mets have hit three walk off home runs --

Three come from behind walk-off HRs

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: From 1998 ... through 2012, the Mets have hit three walk off home runs -- Three come from behind walk-off HRs

[Edgy MD]

Costas backtracks on weak apology. Declares that folks don't get a joke.

Of course we got that it was a joke. The objection is that it was a cheap, mean, snotty joke.