Baseball Passings 2013

[G-Fafif]

The 2012 thread is here. The 2013 thread begins with sad news regarding the reported suicide of light-hitting 1970s Padre shorstop Enzo Hernandez, 62.

[Edgy MD]

Sheesh. Suiciding shortstops. Make it stop.

[G-Fafif]

Fred Talbot, Seattle Pilot, 71.

[Frayed Knot]

Hope it wasn't the stress from that fake paternity suit that did him in.

[stevejrogers]

Hall of Famer, The Earl of Baltimore, Earl Weaver

[Benjamin Grimm]

Even though he's now dead, I'd still be willing to replace Terry Collins with him.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Greatest manager that ever managed in my lifetime as a baseball fan. (Though he couldn't beat the Metsies).

R.I.P.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

ugh.

[nymr83]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Even though he's now dead, I'd still be willing to replace Terry Collins with him.

He does a nice job of ripping bunting as a strategy in his book, before "bunting is dumb" was widely accepted (by everyone but mets management)

[Edgy MD]

It's odd. You think "Who was the greatest manager of my lifetime?" and many of the names that come up --- Weaver, Whitey Herzog, Davey Johnson, Bobby Cox --- were guys that won one and only one championship.

[DocTee]

Tony LaRussa begs to differ...

[stevejrogers]

DocTee wrote: Tony LaRussa begs to differ...

Bobby Valentine would beg to differ as well!

Not to mention legions of MFY fans, depending on era they grew up in, clamoring for either Saint Joe or Battlin' Billy.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy MD wrote: It's odd. You think "Who was the greatest manager of my lifetime?" and many of the names that come up --- Weaver, Whitey Herzog, Davey Johnson, Bobby Cox --- were guys that won one and only one championship.

Do you want to give Earl an "honorary" title for 1983?

[Edgy MD]

Nymr83 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Even though he's now dead, I'd still be willing to replace Terry Collins with him. He does a nice job of ripping bunting as a strategy in his book, before "bunting is dumb" was widely accepted (by everyone but mets management)

I'd be willing to bet this isn't close to true. The Mets were right at the league average of 64 successful sacrifice hits last year. This number may not be exactly indicative of where they stand in terms of general usage --- as one would have to account for bunting opportunities and unsuccessful bunts --- but it certainly is enough for me to think they do not, in fact, stand apart from the league as far as their attitude toward bunting.

[Edgy MD]

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy MD wrote: It's odd. You think "Who was the greatest manager of my lifetime?" and many of the names that come up --- Weaver, Whitey Herzog, Davey Johnson, Bobby Cox --- were guys that won one and only one championship. Do you want to give Earl an "honorary" title for 1983?

No. My point was largely about how (1) the World Series winner doesn't necessarily give you the best team, and (2) great managing doesn't necessarily result in successful teams.

Earl's best years came in the midst of the rise three of baseball's great teams --- the Swinging A's, the Red Machine, and the Battlin' Bombers, plus some damn good Dodger and Red Sox and Phillie teams, but I'd take Weaver over Williams, Anderson, and Martin (and Zimmer and LaSorda, and Green), probably without even thinking too long on the issue.

(I'd think long and hard about Herzog, though.)

[MFS62]

RIP, Earl.
Umpires and fans everywhere will remember you.

Later

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Geeze... Musial, too?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

"Here stands baseball's perfect warrior. Here stands baseball's perfect knight."

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The Man had been in bad health for awhile (or good health for a 92 year old, however you wanna look at it). Vescey's book on Musial was one of the best things I read last year.

[metirish]

There can't be too many days like this when the games loses two giants.

RIP.

[seawolf17]

Common thread: the Rochester Red Wings. Both in their Hall of Fame.

[MFS62]

RIP, Stan
We'll remember that stance that we tried to copy as kids.

Later

[seawolf17]

Bought a lithograph of Frontier Field right before we left Rochester in 1999, and framed it with autographed cards from Red Wings legends and guys we enjoyed watching over the few years we were there. Stan never played at Frontier Field, but I made sure to put him front and center when I put it together.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Very cool, gotta love stuff like that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Joe Posnanski on Earl Weaver (with a nod to GPrince for the link-to):

In 1979, for instance, [Weaver] had ... a a 35-year-old defensive legend named Mark Belanger.... Belanger? Couldn't hit. At all. But could still play a brilliant shortstop. He played 101 games -- but only 40 of them were full games. He started and was pinch-hit for in 14 games. And he came in a defensive replacement in 47 games.

It's too bad that 1999 SI cover boy - the uber-feeble Rey Ordonez - didn't receive the Earl Weaver treatment that season. There probably would've been a Subway Series a year before the Subway Series. Instead, the Mets gave the Willie Mays treatment to a scrub that usually couldn't hit the ball past the pitcher's mound even if you spotted him five and a half bounces. Then a year later, the Mets trade a shortstop who would put up MVP caliber numbers over the course of the decade because they preferred their Rey replacement to be more like Rey and less like Ripken.

On small ball: "If you play for one run, that's all you'll get."

Playing against Weaver's Birds almost 20 times a season obviously didn't rub off even a smidgen on Wee Willie Small Balls. Otherwise, the Mets probably make the playoffs three straight years.

His teams finished first or second 12 times in his 15 years as manager of the Orioles (not counting the ill advised year and a half when he returned in the mid-1980s).

In 1979, for instance, he had a 34-year-old Pat Kelly, who had kicked around for a decade, who was on his fourth team, who was about at the end. He also had a 32-year-old John Lowenstein, who had also kicked around for about a decade and had only been an everyday player once... a 28-year-old Benny Ayala and so on. Well, here's what he knew about Pat Kelly: Guy can hit with power against right-handed pitchers. So, he gave Kelly 177 plate-appearances -- 164 of them against righties -- and the guy banged nine homers and slugged .536 for him. Lowenstein? Crushes righties. He got 215 of his 232 plate appearances against righties and he hit 11 homers and slugged. 500. Ayala? He could hit lefties pretty well. He had 85 of his 94 plate appearances against lefties and slugged .513.... This gets at the heart of Weaver -- he didn't care what the player looked like or, more to the point, he did not let a players' weaknesses define him. The player is the player. The manager is the one who has to figure out how to get the most out of his. The 1979 Orioles went to the World Series.

Earl woulda batted Magadan leadoff.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41037246/

[MFS62]

Every kid who saw him wanted to try Stan's batting stance at least once (I did).
Every manager who saw him wanted to kick dirt on an umpire like Earl Weaver. He raised "Pissing off an Umpire" to an art form.

They will both be missed.

Later

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Had the pleasure of meeting both of them. Both seemed very nice, especially Musial.

[nymr83]

According to Jason Stark, Musial was one of only two players (the other was Ted Williams) to hit 400+ HRs and walk more than twice the number of times he struck out.

[G-Fafif]

Musial drove in the first run ever scored against the Mets, went 3-for-3 in their first game and never stopped taking it to them until he retired.

[ashie62]

MFS62 wrote: RIP, Earl. Umpires and fans everywhere will remember you. Later

For sure..