Oklahoma, OK?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before. One more hint: it would be impossible for any team that affiliated with the Mets to join this group.

D'oh. Minor League cities larger than their major-league parents.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before. One more hint: it would be impossible for any team that affiliated with the Mets to join this group. D'oh. Minor League cities larger than their major-league parents.

Correct!

[Edgy MD]

One more reason the reserved territory rule of Major League Baseball is destroying America. All six of those teams should unaffiliate and start a third Major League. Or second. Or whatever.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Then maybe we'd get a brand new Major League NL team in New York City. Lacking their own history, initially, the new team might build a Tom Seaver Rotunda. Or erect a statue of Cleon Jones cradling the last out of the '69 series.

[Gwreck]

The "bigger AAA affiliates than their parent" is really just a semantics thing because that's determining population based on city limits, not metropolitan area. The actual city of Cincinnati may be smaller than the city of Louisville but the metro area is a million people larger in Cincinnati.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Edgy DC wrote: One more reason the reserved territory rule of Major League Baseball is destroying America. All six of those teams should unaffiliate and start a third Major League. Or second. Or whatever.

Imagine how much Jason Bay could be overpaid if there were teams in a third league bidding for his services.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville.

Excellent work, Jeff.

[soupcan]

Vegas? That's just stupid.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff.

Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know.

There was really nothing the Mets could do though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff. Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know. There was really nothing the Mets could do though.

Except, you know, be a desirable partner. Instead they are the last kid picked for dodgeball, again.

I know in the grand scheme by itself this is no big deal, but nevertheless its the kind of thing that just gnaws away my fandom. I'm already standing behind a team that fucked up its new stadium, can't score runs, owes everyone money, dies every July, wastes money on shitty players, etc etc... does it also have to be the organization that other cities want no part of?

Cut corners like this and it begins to show.

[Vic Sage]

are people really sad or anxious about the loss of Buffalo as our AAA affiliate? Really? BUFFALO?
I've seen a game at Buffalo folks and we won't be losing much.

who cares where the AAA affiliate is located? Are we the ones buying the airline tix for the CitiField shuttle?
Don't worry; we'll figure out a way to get them here if they belong here. And if a major leaguer needs a short injury rehab, they can play in Brooklyn. I remember watching Shinjo play there once.

Vegas would be great for the AAA team; something to do there that doesn't involve me losing large stacks of cash. Lots of retirees from back east, too.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: are people really sad or anxious about the loss of Buffalo as our AAA affiliate? Really? BUFFALO? I've seen a game at Buffalo folks and we won't be losing much. who cares where the AAA affiliate is located? Are we the ones buying the airline tix for the CitiField shuttle? Don't worry; we'll figure out a way to get them here if they belong here. And if a major leaguer needs a short injury rehab, they can play in Brooklyn. I remember watching Shinjo play there once. Vegas would be great for the AAA team; something to do there that doesn't involve me losing large stacks of cash. Lots of retirees from back east, too.

It's not a big deal, and made less so by the taxi-squad rules in the new CBA, but if say Ruben Tejada wakes up with a stiff back, you can get a guy here from Buffalo in time for a game, not so in Vegas.

From an excuse to go to Vegas again it's great as a fan.

But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly.

Buffalo won't be "happy" with the Blue Jays either. The Bisons may be lashing out at the Mets, but the problems the Bisons have are Buffalo/economy/population based, not Mets attractiveness based. The 5-6 games on SNY a year were probably better for them than anything the Blue Jays can do.

[Vic Sage]

if say Ruben Tejada wakes up with a stiff back, you can get a guy here from Buffalo in time for a game, not so in Vegas.

Tejada sits and Cedeno plays. And Turner plays behind him. that's what a bench is for. the guy from AAA can be there the next day. And there are guys in the 40-man in AA, too, and they're right down the coast. It is NOT a big deal.

But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly.

yeah, Buffalo was a crap stadium, too... and it's in BUFFALO! And yeah, PCL numbers are skewed, but they can be corrected for in any analysis. DePodesta can show you how.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly. yeah, Buffalo was a crap stadium, too... and it's in BUFFALO! And yeah, PCL numbers are skewed, but they can be corrected for in any analysis. DePodesta can show you how.

Buffalo's actually a decent stadium.

Nothing wrong with Buffalo, it's dying, but it has some character.

the more 'correcting' you do for minor league numbers the less confident I am in how it translates to major league production is all.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not.

[seawolf17]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not.

This.

[bmfc1]

Right--it's about making your own decisions for the best interests of the team rather than taking whatever happens to be left over.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

My brother-in-law's parents live in Vegas, and Jeff goes to a 51s game when he's in town. Seems like it.

But I'd also like the team closer. The Tigers seem to do well having Toledo about an hour away, and the Midwest-A team here in Grand Rapids about two hours away.

The team here draws well, and I get to talk to the folks running it once in a while. One time I asked why would they not try to be a AA or AAA team. They answer was interesting. The price to join the league was crazy -- I think she said $80 million, and this was a while ago -- and they didn't think they could draw too many more fans than they do now. So there really wasn't much of an incentive from the team's point of view.

[seawolf17]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: My brother-in-law's parents live in Vegas, and Jeff goes to a 51s game when he's in town. Seems like it. But I'd also like the team closer. The Tigers seem to do well having Toledo about an hour away, and the Midwest-A team here in Grand Rapids about two hours away. The team here draws well, and I get to talk to the folks running it once in a while. One time I asked why would they not try to be a AA or AAA team. They answer was interesting. The price to join the league was crazy -- I think she said $80 million, and this was a while ago -- and they didn't think they could draw too many more fans than they do now. So there really wasn't much of an incentive from the team's point of view.

"Plus, then there's always the chance we get stuck with the Mets. Fuck that."

[Fman99]

I've enjoyed seeing the AAA Mets here in Syracuse the last few years, as a divisional rival to the Chiefs. That being said, I never picked a Chiefs game to attend based on the opponent, except that I avoid going when the baby MFYs are in town because it draws out the goons.

Que sera sera.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff. Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know. There was really nothing the Mets could do though. Except, you know, be a desirable partner. Instead they are the last kid picked for dodgeball, again. I know in the grand scheme by itself this is no big deal, but nevertheless its the kind of thing that just gnaws away my fandom. I'm already standing behind a team that fucked up its new stadium, can't score runs, owes everyone money, dies every July, wastes money on shitty players, etc etc... does it also have to be the organization that other cities want no part of? Cut corners like this and it begins to show.

There's the hats. Don't forget the hats.

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not.

The thing is though, the NYM-Binghamton relationship is one of the longest running in not just the Eastern League but in all of the minors as was the one with Tidewater/Norfolk one by the time it ended, so it's not like two-year-and-out minor league relations has been a long-standing problem with the team.

Now has something changed recently that makes AAA teams in the eastern half of this country not want us?
I dunno. There were vague stories that the Norfolk group felt un-loved by NYM brass, but I also read that had nothing to do with it, that it was a case of that ownership group buying up several teams in the mid-atlantic area which were all Baltimore affiliates and so switching to the Birds gave them a whole vertical alignment of minor league teams and just one organization to deal with.

Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately?
I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately? I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it.

I don't remember what the Norfolk bit was about, but that was a while ago now anyway, this is only the second time the Mets have been dumped. (The shuffle forced them to New Orleans, The Mets didn't want to renew that and grabbed Buffalo, which presumably is part of how the Blue Jays got stuck with Vegas)

Buffalo is choosing to blame the Mets for it's problems that the Blue Jays won't fix. It's simply a refusal to look in the mirror.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frayed Knot wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not. The thing is though, the NYM-Binghamton relationship is one of the longest running in not just the Eastern League but in all of the minors as was the one with Tidewater/Norfolk one by the time it ended, so it's not like two-year-and-out minor league relations has been a long-standing problem with the team. Now has something changed recently that makes AAA teams in the eastern half of this country not want us? I dunno. There were vague stories that the Norfolk group felt un-loved by NYM brass, but I also read that had nothing to do with it, that it was a case of that ownership group buying up several teams in the mid-atlantic area which were all Baltimore affiliates and so switching to the Birds gave them a whole vertical alignment of minor league teams and just one organization to deal with. Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately? I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it.

Well, bad timing and and being unprofitable, lousy, no fun to be around. II think if the Mets could convince some convenient city it can be a good partner, they'd be less likely to look at Baltimore and Toronto as superior alternatives.

[Edgy MD]

The Mets have announced that they've extended their working agreement with Sally League stalwarts in Savannah, so....

[Frayed Knot]

Lousy? - Well if that were the deciding factor then I don't think teams would be running towards Baltimore six years back or Toronto now unless proximity and/or integration were also involved.

Unprofitable? - Yeah, although I don't know how that affects the minor league club since those are independently owned.
If nothing else the lack of FA cash at the top level would lead a team in the Mets situation to concentrate more on the draft

No fun to be around? - I don't really know what that means. Attendance sucks here because the ML team 200/400/1,000 miles away isn't exciting enough?


Like I said, there may be something here that NYM mgmt aren't doing right, although if there is I haven't seen it spelled out yet.
Or it may be something that we're blaming Jeff Wilpon for simply because blaming Jeff Wilpon makes us feel better whether whatever is going on is actually his fault or not.

[Edgy MD]

Eastwood Blames Whole "Chair Thing" on Jeff Wilpon

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm intentionally not being too precise here. The point was it'd just be nicer to be a fan of the Mets if it were the kind of organization a AAA city would be proud to be associated with, not one to whom they're so indifferent and/or willing to cashier. And, let's face it, the Mets by virtue of their own indifference to developing players over the years, more or less broadcasts that they're an organization you don't want to get stuck with, especially when it comes to AAA. In four years at Buffalo they've given the fans up there two last place and two 5th place finishes, and only one winning record (76-68 in 2010). If I'm Buffalo I'd want more. Not to mention the team we're being dumped for has a rep for one of the best systems in the minors.

[Vic Sage]

If I'm Buffalo I'd want more

If i'm Buffalo, I want to be someplace else... anyplace else.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: If I'm Buffalo I'd want more If i'm Buffalo, I want to be someplace else... anyplace else.

Buffalo really ain't that bad.