duan Old-Timey Member Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 he could try this "five bottles of beer and sex with his girlfriend at least four times . . . it was her birthday, the lady deserved a treat,"
Centerfield Old-Timey Member Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Maybe he was watching SNY.
TransMonk Old-Timey Member Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 It should be interesting what the excuse is and whether MLB will waiver on their policy.I can't imagine MLB coming out with these allegations against the newly-crowned NL MVP and all around good-guy Braun unless they were pretty sure.If Braun has an excuse that would change the test results, then I would think that the whole dope testing policy would need to be reviewed.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Couple of things here:- Braun is appealing the finding - which I assume is a right under terms of the agreement - so nothing's going to happen until that process is through. This is the kind of thing that's supposed to remain under wraps while being appealed although obviously it was leaked.- Statement from Braun's camp: "There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. While Ryan has impeccable character and no previous history, unfortunately, because of the process we have to maintain confidentiality and are not able to discuss it any further, but we are confident he will ultimately be exonerated."Be interesting to see what they define as "highly unusual" although other reports (Ken Rosenthal) are citing sources describing Braun's results as being �never seen in the history of (baseball�s) drug-prevention program. ... everyone was just scratching their head.� which the Braun camp may see as signs of irregularities in the process.Also various reports say that while the positive was for a 'banned substance' it's not for a performance enhancing one. If true that still shouldn't change the punishment IMO although it might help his rep.- While there is no case that we know of that's been over-turned since this testing program began, it's certainly possible that players whose appeals were NOT leaked subsequently were exonerated and therefore the first positive never saw the light of day. - From the Milwaukee-Journal Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt: "Just spoke to someone familiar with the details of Braun's test and was assured he will be found innocent. If so, horrible this leaked out." Sounds odd to me that some in on the details but without a dog in the fight would speak to a newspaper man but it's always possible.- Braun requested a second test which reportedly came up clean although it's not clear what the time gap between that second sample and the first one is as that's something that clearly can affect the results.
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Well that certainly would throw the cat among the pigeons if he can prove his innocence, and I hope he is innocent but it all sounds very familiar his claims of nothing intentional, highly unusual circumstances yyybbb.
Ceetar Grand Central Contributor Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Frayed Knot wrote:- Braun requested a second test which reportedly came up clean although it's not clear what the time gap between that second sample and the first one is as that's something that clearly can affect the results.It's well into the offseason too, so no surprise if it didn't come up clear right now.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 The website TMZ.com cited "sources directly connected with Major League Baseball" in reporting on Monday that star Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun's positive test under Major League Baseball's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Policy was triggered by medication for a [u:2wmpqx0b]private medical issue[/u:2wmpqx0b]."Private medical issue"; is that what they're calling 'herpes' these days?
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 How disillusioning it would be to find out that TMZ sat on dirt like that.
MFS62 Old-Timey Member Posted December 20, 2011 Posted December 20, 2011 Frayed Knot wrote:"Private medical issue"; is that what they're calling 'herpes' these days?This brings new meaning to the old adage that alimony was the screwing you get for the screwing you got.Later
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Braun won his appeal case just now.....some conflicting stuff out there, some from the APhttp://www.jsonline.com/Brewers blogRyan Braun wins appeal of positive drug teste-mail print By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal SentinelUpdated: 4:10 p.m. |(10) COMMENTSPhoenix - Milwaukee Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun became the first major-league player to have a positive drug test overturned when he was informed Thursday that an arbitration panel ruled in his favor on appeal and decided against a 50-game suspension for the reigning National League most valuable player.There has been no official announcement of the verdict but the Journal Sentinel has confirmed that Braun won his appeal. Someone familiar with the decision said the appeal went Braun's way not so much on contesting the result of the test but the testing process itself, some kind of technicality. And it was arbitrator Shyam Das who decided to rule in favor on that technicality, making it a 2-1 decision by the three-man panel. Whatever the reason, the ruling was a tremendous boost for both Braun, whose reputation was at stake, and the Brewers, already missing free agent Prince Fielder from their 2011 NL Central championship club. Instead of having to figure out a way to replace Braun for the first 50 games of the season, the team can move forward with its original plans. Braun is expected to report to the Brewers' camp Friday on schedule, and now will not have the cloud of a suspension hanging over his head. It had become a point of noticeable nervousness and anxiety among other players and staff as well as they awaited what many feared would be a negative outcome.Braun appealed the positive test that took place in early October, at the outset of the playoffs. His hearing before a three-man arbitration panel was held in New York on Jan. 19-20, when noted attorney David Cornwell presented his case against the test result and suspension.The three-man panel included Major League Baseball Players Association executive director Michael Weiner, MLB vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred and independent arbitrator Shyam Das. The history of such hearings suggested Weiner would back the player and Manfred would support the testing procedure, leaving Das to cast the decisive vote.The MLB drug policy calls for a maximum of 25 days for the panel to render its verdict but that is considered more of a guideline than a rigid deadline. Accordingly, the panel took much longer to announce its decision. Thursday marked five weeks since the appeal hearing began. There had been speculation that the delay was because Braun already had been told he won the case and his side hadn't announced it. The commissioner's office wouldn't announce the player had won the appeal because the process is supposed to be confidential. But a source familiar with the decision said Braun was not informed until Thursday. An MLB source familiar with the history of game�s drug testing said none of the previous 12 major leaguers who appealed a positive result were able to overturn a suspension. Thus, even though successful appeals are not announced because of confidentiality, someone familiar with the process said Braun was the first major-leaguer to win an appeal.Originally, players were suspended for 10 days but that penalty was stiffened to 50 games in 2006, with pay forfeited.The burden of proof rests squarely on the player in such hearings because he must prove the banned substance was not in his system by his fault or through negligence. The MLB drug policy has a �strict liability� provision in which players are not exonerated merely because they ingested a banned substance unknowingly.Braun�s positive test reportedly included �insanely high levels� of testosterone, by far the most ever detected in a player. He requested an independent drug test a few weeks after testing positive, which was clean, but it was not authorized nor recognized as exculpatory by MLB.After ESPN reported Braun�s positive test, he immediately proclaimed his innocence, sending this test message to the Journal Sentinel: �I am completely innocent. This is B.S.�Braun indicated he wanted to give his side of the story but was instructed not to by his advisors. But his camp went on the offensive, citing �highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan�s complete innocence and demonstrate that there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program.�The agency that represents Braun, CAA Sports, hired noted attorney David Cornwell to present his case before the panel. Cornwell had defended other high-profile athletes in such matters as well as other legal entanglements.Shortly after taking the case, Cornwell issued a statement saying, �Any report that Ryan ingested a performance-enhancing drug is wrong.�Cornwell limited his comments to that and the Braun camp closely guarded its defense strategy prior to the hearing. Word leaked, however, that Cornwell would attack the test finding on several fronts, questioning the veracity of the test itself because Braun�s testosterone level was more than twice as high as any previously recorded.A source familiar with MLB�s drug policy indicated there were only a few ways to overturn a positive test, such as proving a chain-of-custody issue, a flaw in the collection process or providing proof that the player�s team signed off on the substance. Otherwise, the �strict liability� aspect of the policy makes it extremely difficult to exonerate a player.Apparently, Braun won his appeal by contesting something in the process itself.Braun claimed 20 of 32 first-place votes for NL MVP after batting .332 with 33 home runs, 111 runs batted in, 109 runs scored and 33 stolen bases in 150 games. He led the league with a .597 slugging percentage. Braun has done a lot of amazing things during his big-league career, but considering the history of the drug program and its appeals, some might consider his biggest accomplishment.
TransMonk Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 What a load of crap.Someone familiar with the decision said the appeal went Braun's way not so much on contesting the result of the test but the testing process itself, some kind of technicality.I want answers.http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140213003.html
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I know right, does this prove he is innocent?, no right?Heyman, the biggest lick arse on twitter is predictably proclaiming Braun innocent, great guy yyybbb and that we should all consider "Braun a clean ballplayer"
TransMonk Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 That is bullshit. He's an even bigger cheater in my mind now.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 TransMonk wrote:That is bullshit. He's an even bigger cheater in my mind now.I think it's best to wait for more details.I am very surprised by the result and I'd really like to know what the flaw in the process was too.
bmfc1 Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Jose leaving the last game of the season doesn't seem so bad now, does it? Jose got a lot of heat for it but if he didn't, Braun might have won the batting title.
Edgy MD Site Manager Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 The three-man panel included Major League Baseball Players Association executive director Michael Weiner, MLB vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred and independent arbitrator Shyam Das.Kinda makes the whole three-man-panel idea seem pointless when two of them have obviously compromised loyalties.I don't think this really relates to Jose Reyes decision.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Edgy DC wrote:Kinda makes the whole three-man-panel idea seem pointless when two of them have obviously compromised loyalties.Indeed. I think part of the problem is that neither side trusts the other enough to just have a 3-person impartial panel.
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Meanwhile the samples are what now?, still positive?
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 If there was no proper chain of custody, it's as if the samples didn't exist in the first place.Assuming the samples were indeed from Braun's urine, this tidbit from the New York Times is curious:The test sample at issue revealed that Braun had significantly elevated levels of testosterone in his body. The test showed a prohibited substance in Braun�s body, but not a steroid, according to another person familiar with the appeals process.So what exactly was in his body? If it caused elevated levels of testosterone, it seems it wasn't a masking agent. Was it something he was taking for a medical issue? Was it some other non-steroidal PED?
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 If there was no proper chain of custody, it's as if the samples didn't exist in the first place.Assuming the samples were indeed from Braun's urine, this tidbit from the New York Times is curious:The test sample at issue revealed that Braun had significantly elevated levels of testosterone in his body. The test showed a prohibited substance in Braun�s body, but not a steroid, according to another person familiar with the appeals process.So what exactly was in his body? If it caused elevated levels of testosterone, it seems it wasn't a masking agent. Was it something he was taking for a medical issue? Was it some other non-steroidal PED?Damn, what a mess.
smg58 Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 The sample was supposed to be shipped immediately, but the person responsible didn't think FedEx was open on a Saturday night. The delay in processing violated the terms of the testing agreement. Like it or not (and I don't, for one), you have to respect the rules of the agreement. And fire people who are responsible for shipping and don't know the hours of FedEx.
metsmarathon Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 what i don't understand is, was there an established procedure for handling the sample in lieu of a readily available shipping location? it almost sounds like there was, but the article is vague.if the bag and box remained sealed, then is the concern that the samples could have deteriorated due to exposure to suboptimal temperature conditions? if so, there should be some straightforward chemistry that would explain why or why not the detected substances and levels thereof could come about. is the guy's refrigerator any less secure than a fedex box truck? is it any less temperature-controlled?and how did braun know of the handling that enabled him to immediately claim that it was bullshit due to some specific circumstances that he didn't want to get into then and there? was the chain of custody expressed to him immediately upon informing him of the results?
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 If the over-turn is strictly the result of a technicality (some sources are citing a chain of custody issue) then, while he probably still deserves to be exonerated, it won't help him out in the court of public perception.If it's more than that, if the test itself were called into question, then the blame turns towards the testers and overseers (MLB? ... USADA?) and Braun gets at least some benefit of the doubt.I don't claim to be an expert of this stuff but, learning a wee bit about this type of process from reading about the procedures in the cycling world, the results are not always so cut-n-dried; almost as much art as science is how I've heard it described. So while it might be easy from the outside to say; well was the damn thing positive or not?!??, there frequently is some grey area that makes it not as simple as in some HS Chem lab where the test paper either turns blue or it turns red.MLB is clearly pissed, but the early leader in the dope of the day award contest seems to be Aaron Rogers who - while probably a friend of Braun's and sticking up for his fellow 'Sconnie' state pro - is tweeting daggers towards MLB about trying "to take an innocent man down" as if the league had some kind of motive to frame their newly crowned MVP who also happens to play for the Commish's favorite team. Get a grip Rogers.
metsmarathon Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the refrigerator story was come up with after the fact. but that guy's a kook.
smg58 Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 metsmarathon wrote:is the guy's refrigerator any less secure than a fedex box truck? Maybe, maybe not, but evidently it raises enough doubt.
MFS62 Old-Timey Member Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (Chanelling Johnny Cochrane) "If the sample was mis-handled a bit, then you've got to acquit."Later
TransMonk Old-Timey Member Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I'll be very interested to see how Bruan will respond to the inevitable question:"Ryan, can you tell your fans, especially the children who may be listening or watching, that regardless of the results of your test or appeal, you have never used any banned performance enhancing drugs?"
Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Guests Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I know I won't be able to look at Ryan Braun's urine the same way again.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 TransMonk wrote:I'll be very interested to see how Bruan will respond to the inevitable question:"Ryan, can you tell your fans, especially the children who may be listening or watching, that regardless of the results of your test or appeal, you have never used any banned performance enhancing drugs?"I think he already answered it when he claimed innocence immediately upon hearing the results.
Gwreck Old-Timey Member Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Some more interesting revelations here from the Daily NewsIn a two-day hearing on Jan. 19 and 20, Braun and his legal team raised the chain-of-custody issues and pointed out that the 28-year-old left fielder had never failed a test before, and that he easily passed another test not administered by MLB shortly after he was told of his positive test.Braun�s positive test (his testosterone to epitestosterone ratio was 20:1; the trigger point for a positive is 4:1) was described to the Daily News in December by a source familiar with his case as reflecting �insanely high� levels of testosterone. �(It was) the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken,� said the source, and was used as evidence that Braun would not have knowingly taken such a large dose of a substance that would trigger such a high positive.�It was more than just (the CDT representative) not giving it to FedEx promptly,� said a source familiar with the case. �Isn�t it odd that of 40,000 tests, the one that goes missing for two days has a higher ratio than any test ever?�According to the source, there were also noticeable differences in Braun�s test and samples from two other players held by the same collector. �The pH level changed,� said the source, �from the original recording to the time it reached the lab. The sample deteriorated.� The director of the Montreal lab, Christiane Ayotte, however, testified during the hearing that it was not unusual for the pH balance to change from the original reading, which is conducted, as one source said, at the collection site with something resembling a dip stick, and that the equipment used in the field is not as accurate as the equipment in the lab.
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