Madoff's Curveball" by Jeffrey Toobin & other Wilpon stories

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: He had to have meant those comments to be off the record. No?

I would guess probably so, given the context. A. It was a long, 5 meetings, interview process. B. It wouldn't about baseball really.

Who knows if he even meant it or it was an in-game overblown reaction like many fans have?

Of course, that doesn't actually change anything. He's still an idiot for saying it to a reporter, and an idiot of he lets Wright or Reyes get away.

[metirish]

Fred doesn't like bunting, that's a good thing.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

metirish wrote: Read this on the train in , brilliant stuff from Toobin , reading it again to let it soak in. love this line from Toobin Wilpon must prove that he was a dupe rather than a crook

He goes a long way toward proving this with going on the record and forgetting himself with Toobin. This all smacks of a dupe thinking he's playing a shark's PR game. The thing is, even if the access works to make him seem more honest and innocuous in re: Madoffstuff, it ultimately makes it near-impossible for him to keep and run his business effectively. That which may help him hold onto his business financially will only help kill said business (which, as we all know, is far from healthy)-- call it the Chemo PR Treatment.

As a bunch of people have said here and elsewhere, the content of what he's saying about the team is pretty damn tame considering what Mets fans were saying at the time; the game they attended, IIRC, was just before the 6-game winning streak, just about at the nadir for anyone with any sort of emotional connection to the Mets. So, yeah, it's understandable as an excited utterance. It's still admissible, though, so to speak.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Toobin on Brian Lehrer's show on WNYC now, discussing the article.

He offers his doubts about the validity of Picard's charges-- "Why would he keep half of his liquid assets in the world in something he suspected was a Ponzi scheme? Even if you assume he's a rational bad guy... that would be a crazy thing to do."

[Willets Point]

Thinking: "Maybe he was a dupe after all. He's not smart enough to be a conspirator."

Oh wait that's a different Picard.

[metirish]

By Adam Rubin
David Wright offered this response to Fred Wilpon's comments labeling him not a superstar (but a very nice guy):

"Fred is a good man and is obviously going through some difficult times. There is nothing more productive that I can say at this time."

[Fman99]

What dopey shit coming from Fred. George Steinbrenner must be rolling around on his bed of coals reading this.

[Ceetar]

Fman99 wrote: What dopey shit coming from Fred. George Steinbrenner must be rolling around on his bed of coals reading this.

George would probably be thinking "That wuss, I would've walked down to the clubhouse after than and fired Beltran myself!"

I'm bored of this story already. Blah blah rich owner guy runs his mouth. wish it wasn't an offday.

[seawolf17]

Well, yes, except that he's the rich guy who signs the checks, and therefore the single most important guy who determines what happens with this franchise that we allegedly love, despite the fact that they kick us in the collective nuts every chance they get.

[TransMonk]

Maybe Fred believed The Rapture was going to occur on Saturday and none of his comments would actually make it to print today.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: Centerfield wrote: He had to have meant those comments to be off the record. No? I would guess probably so, given the context. A. It was a long, 5 meetings, interview process. B. It wouldn't about baseball really. Who knows if he even meant it or it was an in-game overblown reaction like many fans have? Of course, that doesn't actually change anything. He's still an idiot for saying it to a reporter, and an idiot of he lets Wright or Reyes get away.

Toobin was asked this during the WNYC interview. He said, "Yeah, it's possible," and praised Fred at all times for being a "good" and "standup" guy who wouldn't back away from any of this stuff.

Toobin also mentioned that he had his pad out at virtually all times, even at the stadium. THAT probably should have been Fred's first clue that he wasn't off-the-record.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm honestly not concerned with the player's feelings getting hurt, or whether Wilpon's remarks aren't a thousand times milder than what other folks who also love the Mets say here every day.

The real damage here is to Wilpon's entire perception by and relationship to the fans. There is no way Reyes goes to another team now without the fans pinning it on Fred Wilpon forever. Really, it was a favor to the players who can now get away with "betraying" the fans when they make their decisions.

[Valadius]

Really, the only hope for this team is for the Wilpons to sell it.

[Guest themetfairy]

Toobin/Wilpon = Pearlman/Rocker

[ashie62]

The potential Exodus of Pelfrey, KRod, Beltran, Reyes will be this generations 'massacre" and management will be blamed with little ill will towards the players.

[seawolf17]

Yes to both Vlad and Ashie.

[metirish]

Joelsherman1 Supposedly Wilpon's ace p.r. men crafting follow-up statement My guess: "Fred wants to apologize for omitting that Jason Bay sucks, too."


the denial or mis-representation of things said is often ugly and this will probably prove the same.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The real damage here is to Wilpon's entire perception by and relationship to the fans. There is no way Reyes goes to another team now without the fans pinning it on Fred Wilpon forever.

Good. That's another log on the "not resigning Reyes would be a disaster" pyre. Soon it'll be big enough even Steve Phillips would've seen it.



I assume Wilpon will say he was frustrated with the results and may have exaggerated his feelings.

[batmagadanleadoff]

One possibility is that Fred's comments were very calculated, and purposely designed to eventually push his stars to other teams. Perhaps Fred crunched the financials and already knows without doubt, that which we fans still hope isn't true -- that the Mets won't be able to afford to re-sign either Reyes or Wright, no matter how things break.

Just one theory.

[seawolf17]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: One possibility is that Fred's comments were very calculated, and purposely designed to eventually push his stars to other teams. Perhaps Fred crunched the financials and already knows without doubt, that which we fans still hope isn't true -- that the Mets won't be able to afford to re-sign either Reyes or Wright, no matter how things break. Just one theory.

I hat this organization.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: One possibility is that Fred's comments were very calculated, and purposely designed to eventually push his stars to other teams. Perhaps Fred crunched the financials and already knows without doubt, that which we fans still hope isn't true -- that the Mets won't be able to afford to re-sign either Reyes or Wright, no matter how things break. Just one theory.

He doesn't need to push anybody anywhere.

[batmagadanleadoff]

seawolf17 wrote: I hat this organization.

What's maddening is that I've been enjoying this Mets team much more than I thought I would a month and a half ago. With three key players due back in the near-term (Wright, Davis & Pagan) the Mets aren't too far back of the Wild Card leader -- and none of the other Wild Card contenders appear to be dominant or un-catchable. In any other season, I'd say that the Mets are one pick-up away (a starting pitcher, ideally) from helping themselves considerably. But given the economic problems that surround the Mets, I wonder just how feasible that one pick-up is?

It's also possible that ownership's reckless spending has already doomed the Mets to years of mediocrity and that the mediocrity clock has begun to tick -- and the team hasn't yet paid out a single penny in damages from the Picard lawsuit.

[Edgy MD]

Well, try and think of the pickup as something from among Davis, Wright, Pagan, and Santana --- or just Santana if you were already factoring the other three into your optimism --- and you can maintain your hope, if you can keep away the very rational doubts that Santana will have much to offer this this season.

[Gwreck]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: It's also possible that ownership's reckless spending has already doomed the Mets to years of mediocrity

There's nothing wrong with the Mets that can't be fixed with large infusions of cash, whether its in the form of premium free agents, the bonuses necessary to obtain top talent in the draft or whatever (even construction costs to reconfigure the left-field wall). The bad signings of the past are only a burden if the team doesn't have the financial ability to recover from them.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: One possibility is that Fred's comments were very calculated, and purposely designed to eventually push his stars to other teams. Perhaps Fred crunched the financials and already knows without doubt, that which we fans still hope isn't true -- that the Mets won't be able to afford to re-sign either Reyes or Wright, no matter how things break. Just one theory. He doesn't need to push anybody anywhere.

He might. What if the Mets are so broke that they know that they wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign their stars even if the stars offered the franchise a home team discount? Perhaps Wilpon would rather offend his players to the point of no return in order to mask his inability to re-sign them.

[Ceetar]

Maybe what Wilpon is trying to say is, there is no way Jose gets Crawford money, because he's already signed an extension that hasn't been announced and it's less than that.

I don't think the Mets are doomed to mediocrity in payroll. We'll see I guess, what Alderson does around the deadline, and of course where the Mets are. I wonder if that would convince people? If they brought in someone 'expensive'? But the i believe this argument basically reaffirmed that the 200million goes to the team, but if they lose the lawsuit they'll have to sell.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd like to remark on how terrific an article this was, capturing Fred as the loving-but-clueless father of Everything That's Wrong With The Mets, from its lukewarm support of its own players, to the dumb stadium, to the spoiled son playing with private jets, to the mismanaged finances, to ownership's overinflated confidence in its own baseball smarts, to the tin ear for fans and good media, to the stupid patriotic hats which make me hate America.

Well done Toobin and Fred!!!!!

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: One possibility is that Fred's comments were very calculated, and purposely designed to eventually push his stars to other teams. Perhaps Fred crunched the financials and already knows without doubt, that which we fans still hope isn't true -- that the Mets won't be able to afford to re-sign either Reyes or Wright, no matter how things break. Just one theory. He doesn't need to push anybody anywhere. He might. What if the Mets are so broke that they know that they wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign their stars even if the stars offered the franchise a home team discount? Perhaps Wilpon would rather offend his players to the point of no return in order to mask his inability to re-sign them.

He doesn't have to say anything to not resign them. Being a dick certainly makes him look worse than being broke.

[Theoldmole]

Get rid of the Wilpons.

[dgwphotography]

I'm just shaking my head here...