Giants vs. Phillies -- NLCS IST

[G-Fafif]

And his name is Dan Uggla!

Or Chase Utley. In the field, hard to tell them apart.

[G-Fafif]

Cody Ross playing in front of the equivalent of five home crowds that he's used to.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Cain is able to get outta the 7h. whew

[G-Fafif]

Cain through seven, no runs, 119 pitches, presumably done. Fabulous (though he shouldn't have [crossout:3sk96dgo]taunted[/crossout:3sk96dgo] reacted to the Citi Field crowd when they booed him for beaning Wright).

[G-Fafif]

Three-man, three-hit shutout! Phillies down 2-1.

I mean Giants up 2-1.

[G-Fafif]

Brian Wilson called it a "marvelous pitching duel". How Dickeyesque.

[G-Fafif]

Matt Yallof on MLBN -- didn't care for him on SNY. Still don't care for him. Nor Matt Vasgersian. No offense to the Matts of the world, but they suck at this particular discipline.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

"How glib. You're being... glib."

[MFS62]

On radio, one of the announcers quipped that Wilson led the NL with 48 saves, then added that he made his manager nervous in 46 of them.
The other guy (Soup Campbell?) added (a close paraphrase) "That's like when Earl Weaver had Tim Stoddard closing for him. He would go through an entire pack of cigarettes during the ninth inning."

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

The notinon of stress-free saves are an illusion, the pursuit of which has caused an endless number of counterproductive personnel decisions.

Brian Wilson has stressed his manager all the way to the brink of the World Series.

You want stress-free baseball, study yoga and meditation, and pursue detachment. Achiefe a state in which you overcome your attachment to desire for things, people, or concepts of the world and thus attain a heightened perspective.

Don't rag on your closer. Or, God help me, your "eighth-inning guy."

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Well, to be fair, Bochy's not ragging on the closer.

"To be fair" part two: Wilson's part of the 80 percent of closers who actually do put runners on base more often than not (7+ hits/9, 3+ BB/9). [To rebut that bit, though: he's also had his most dominant year in the saddle during each those 48 "shaky" saves, and his K-rates have climbed each of the last three seasons to a Ryan-y 11.2 K/9 this year.]

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, I wasn't speaking of Bochy per se, but those like the two announcers intellectually putting themselves in the place of those managers, and holding those closers responsible for stress created.

Cigarettes, saves... a jedi craves not these things.

[Vic Sage]

i think it's interesting to look at closers in terms of their WHIP, to derive some sort of "alka seltzer" quotient.

Going back the last 3 seasons, only 1 pitcher in baseball has gotten over 30 saves per season, with a WHIP of 1.00 of less each of those years (I bet you can guess who!). In addition to the inimitable Mr. Rivera, Joe Nathan has done it 2 of the last 3 seasons (he was on the DL this year -- go Seawolves!). Even if you lower the floor to 25 saves a season, you only add Billy Wagner and the unsung Andrew Bailey, who've both done it 2 of the last 3 seasons. So, yes, its a ridiculously small percentage of closers who can consistently be counted on to give you a clean 9th inning. And holding all relievers up to that standard will inevitably cause agita, to managers and fans alike.

And far worse than agita, such unrealistic expectations by management can lead (as Edgy has already noted) to disastrous personnel decisions.

[Frayed Knot]

As I pointed out in another thread a month or two back, less than 1/3 of all saves (1-inning saves anyway) are done with perfect 1-2-3 innings. So, going on the idea that a baserunner - any baserunner: via walk, hit, HR, etc. - makes a fan nervous in a 1, 2, or 3 run game, then "nervous" is much closer to the norm than the exception.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Vic Sage wrote: i think it's interesting to look at closers in terms of their WHIP, to derive some sort of "alka seltzer" quotient. Going back the last 3 seasons, only 1 pitcher in baseball has gotten over 30 saves per season, with a WHIP of 1.00 of less each of those years (I bet you can guess who!). In addition to the inimitable Mr. Rivera, Joe Nathan has done it 2 of the last 3 seasons (he was on the DL this year -- go Seawolves!). Even if you lower the floor to 25 saves a season, you only add Billy Wagner and the unsung Andrew Bailey, who've both done it 2 of the last 3 seasons. So, yes, its a ridiculously small percentage of closers who can consistently be counted on to give you a clean 9th inning. And holding all relievers up to that standard will inevitably cause agita, to managers and fans alike. And far worse than agita, such unrealistic expectations by management can lead (as Edgy has already noted) to disastrous personnel decisions.

Agreed on the general point... but Wilson's 1.17 WHIP this year was actually his career low by a LOT, and lowered his career baserunners-per-IP to just under 1.3. Which is closer to major-league average for everybody than for end-of-game/setup relievers.

[Vic Sage]

i wasn't commenting on Wilson in particular.
And, of course, you could use whatever cutoff for WHIP that one can make a logical argument for.

But what i think is interesting is the general lack of consistency you'll find among even the "best" closers, in terms of their annual WHIP, even if they're consistently getting 25+ saves a year. The point is that too many fans, managers and general managers overvalue the "closer", because its as much a function of opportunity and luck as it is any particular moral virtue. With the rare exception of Mr. Rivera in the current era, even the best ones can cause stress, because they are most likely pitching the last inning of a close game.

which is why tying up big $$ in guys who pitch 50 innings a year is stupid... stupid as a bunt.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And nobody churns stomache acid over the saves the other teams' closers pile up.

So you look at Francisco Rodriguez, you see him break 60 saves, and it's all good.

Then you drop a ton of money signing him and things are different.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

You know that supremely annoying Maddux thing where he gives hitters something to whack, only it's placed so that he can't whack it fair?

Bumgartner's got that mojo working.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Yanking Bumgartner after 4 2/3 IP/80-something pitches?

[seawolf17]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: You know that supremely annoying Maddux thing where he gives hitters something to whack, only it's placed so that he can't whack it fair? Bumgartner's got that mojo working.

Plus, he makes silly faces when he pitches.

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Yanking Bumgartner after 4 2/3 IP/80-something pitches?

Yeah, I thought that was a bit premature also. He was having some trouble there in the 5th, but I would have trusted him to get one more out and his replacement only made it worse.
This might have been the type of game where you could go to Zito for a few innings.


But the Giants fought back and are in the lead in the 7th.

[metsmarathon]

the mphph do gba way better than the mfy

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

You hafta wonder whether Joe Buck ever gets sick of himself. I hate him.

The radio guys, Dave Shulman (?) and Soupy Campbell, were pretty good.

[Guest Edgy DC]

No out and runner on second.

Billies are gonna phunt here, right?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Howard leadoff double does present a monkeywrench.

Romo on now to [crossout:35iniabo]overthrow Batista[/crossout:35iniabo] face Werth.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Kadubble!

A punch in the face to playing for the tie.

[Guest Edgy DC]

We're in the ninth and tied. San Francisco has gone to Wilson.

Knedrick, Romero, and Lidge left for the Phillies. Let's see if Manuel holds Lidge out.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Oswalt on to pitch the 9th.

This hasn't been the best-played game ever but it's been fun to experience

[Willets Point]

Aubrey Huff is due.

[Willets Point]

Bring him home Buster.