Starting Pitching, ought-nine

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Her name is Alex Curran and she's the WAG of Steven Gerrard, who plays for Liverpool.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Well Augmented Gal?

[metirish]

WAG = Wives & Girlfriends


But you knew that right?

[A Boy Named Seo]

No, I didn't know that. But I do know that WAG's are absolutely not invited to the Man U. Christmas party.

[A Boy Named Seo]

="metsmarathon":qboxnn2q]i really wish we'd look at sheets, and bring in a backup plan as well.[/quote:qboxnn2q] I'm wichoo. Johan's the only guy we know exactly what we're getting from. Hopefully Pelfrey won't regress. I don't think he will. I guess him being the second most known quantity on the staff makes me a little uneasy is all. I don't see how Maine can be counted on for 30 starts at this point. We should really have at least six viable options. Maybe, like, more. I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.

seawolf17 Dec 17 2008 12:44 PM

="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[seawolf17]

="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball

A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM

And Seawolf and Dennis Springer.

metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM

or that japanese chick!

MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM

John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later

Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM

Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson.

seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also.

Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM

good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum!

Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM

If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l

Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM

How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.)

seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM

I thought BtF2 was someone's nym.

TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM

Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per.

metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM

Could we not sign Perez for that money?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM

I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM

Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan.

TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM

="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[A Boy Named Seo]

And Seawolf and Dennis Springer.

[metsmarathon]

or that japanese chick!

[MFS62]

John Maine Interview:

http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe.

While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal.

I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson.

[seawolf17]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]

I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also.

[nymr83]

good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum!

[Bunt the First Two]

If you're going to overpay
Overpay for Ollie
Christmas eve is here today
And Christmas should be jolly
Ollie can be widely variant
But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener
And I know what Keith and Gary meant
When they praised young Ollie's demeanor

So, I'm clinging to the familiar
And I fear the enemy hireling
You may find my perspective sillier
My wife does; as does my sireling
Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray
To think so would be rank folly
But if you're going to overpay
Overpay for Ollie

Joyeux No�l

[Benjamin Grimm]

How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.)

[seawolf17]

I thought BtF2 was someone's nym.

[TransMonk]

Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per.

[metirish]

Could we not sign Perez for that money?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch:

]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan.

[TransMonk]

="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency.

Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM

A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM

I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie.

Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM

Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go.

MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM

According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM

I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?

TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[nymr83]

A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season.

Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140
Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131
Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224
Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211

Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114
Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198

They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.)
Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out?

[A Boy Named Seo]

I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets.

Lowe = already fat.

Oliver Perez is the way to go.

[MFS62]

According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe.

Later

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?

[TransMonk]

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do]

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM

Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day?

Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM

Nowe Lowe!

Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM

Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday."

Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM

="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Derek Lowe for Christmas?

ESPN says no.

]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers.

Newsday also says no.

It seems they are speaking, though.

="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon.

Maybe for Boxing Day?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nowe Lowe!

[Frayed Knot]

Newsday:
The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent.
"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon.

Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf.

The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday."

[Benjamin Grimm]

="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm]

Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM

sounds good to me, lets see what happens

Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM

Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM

="seawolf17"] ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also.

Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM

Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front.

metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM

Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s.

Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM

Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM

="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what?

Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM

I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM

Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis.

metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM

="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album)

Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM

Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM

]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value.

Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM

Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid.

Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM

The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.

Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM

="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"] ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac] ="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6] ="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7] ="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.