Mets land Estrada

[Frayed Knot]

]what is the advantage in a catcher that draws walks?

Because if he's drawing walks then he's not making outs - something Estrada did at a better than 70% clip last season.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

yost may have just been being a manager, but made a point after his shoving match with Estrada that Johnny was only defending another teammate.

What I recall about Estrada was that he was traded for Kevin Millwood.

[metirish]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: yost may have just been being a manager, but made a point after his shoving match with Estrada that Johnny was only defending another teammate. What I recall about Estrada was that he was traded for Kevin Millwood.

Yes and I remember at the time the Braves were being questioned for that move because Millwood was a stud (sorta) at the time, had a big year the season before IIRC.

The Braves though maintained they were getting a future star catcher.

[Frayed Knot]

That was the year the Braves offered potential FA Greg Maddux arbitration in order to get draft picks when he left only to see him fool them all by accepting the offer. That unexpected move wound up blowing apart the Braves' budget prompting them to trade Millwood for the then young backup catcher Estrada. Much chuckling ensued amid wondering if Schurholz had lost it until Estrada wound up having a better year than Millwood.

[nymr83]

i love this trade.
go omar!

[Mex17]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11212007/sports/mets/mota_motive_134133.htm

Estrada is arbitration eligible in January, and a team source indicated it's possible the Mets will simply allow him to become a free agent.

Either the Post is making crap up or Omar is out of his mind. Estrada should be the starting catcher for this team!!!! This was a gift from Heaven.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Adam Rubin was kinda saying the same thing this morning in the News.

He picked up on something Omar said about the Mets now having "depth at catcher."

Rubin says that the Mets may turn around and deal Estrada or they could non-tender him if they got another catcher through some other means.

I guess it's possible, but I think it's likely that Estrada will play for the Mets next year. He'll play as often as Castro allows him to play. (And Castro will play as often as Estrada allows him to play.)

[Frayed Knot]

Mex17 wrote: Either the Post is making crap up or Omar is out of his mind.

Or maybe he doesn't particularly want Estrada (like because he's not very good) and the deal was simply a way to get out from under Mota's 2008 salary which IS guaranteed.
Or, as they say in the beer commercial ... BRILLIANT!!!

]Estrada should be the starting catcher for this team!!!! This was a gift from Heaven.

Well, if you think the "gift" part is that he was able to get rid of Mota then it's a gift whether Estrada is kept or not.
If you think having Estrada as the starting catcher is the heaven-sent part then I think you have an over-inflated view of his worth.

[smg58]

The Mets do have the option of non-tendering Estrada, but I don't see them using up bargaining chips on another catcher at this point unless Estrada's recovery from elbow surgery is going poorly, or another bargain offer for a catcher comes up.

[Guest attgig]

Centerfield wrote: Didn't Estrada get into a fist fight with Yost during a Mets game?

I'm guessing that's why they got rid of him, more than the injuries. And that's prolly why the brewers fans are glad he's gone.

I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him.

[metirish]

="attgig"] Centerfield wrote: I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him. I think that stuff is over rated, if you're a bollox you're a bollox.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2007 07:28 AM

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal: Estrada and teammate Tony Graffanino were involved in a dugout altercation with manager Ned Yost in early August - ironically, in a game against the Mets - but that was not believed to be a factor in the trade. "I don't really want to get into all of that," said [GM Doug] Melvin. "It doesn't do any good to talk about negatives." More from Melvin: "We're just looking for more of an energy level and a catcher who works well with pitchers." If Estrada's energy level was down, his agent, David Schwartz, said it probably was related to the injuries he played with. "I don't think Johnny got enough credit for playing hurt all season," said Schwartz. After the season, Estrada had surgery to remove a bone spur from his elbow and repair torn cartilage in his left knee. And from Estrada himself: "I heard they wished I worked better with the pitching staff," said Estrada, who will be playing for his fourth team in four years. "That (ticks) me off. I think sometimes, as a general manager or an owner, or even a manager, you don't have the pulse of the team. (General manager Doug Melvin) is not in the clubhouse."

TransMonk Nov 21 2007 07:30 AM

From the Brewers' board: I asked: Would there have been any takers if I would have proposed that deal before it happened? Answer: Nope. General consensus here is that we hoped to get a little bit more, especially because we had some leverage without having a replacement for Estrada inked. Most here think Estrada for Mota + our expected FA signing of Jason Kendall is a rather lateral move.

metirish Nov 21 2007 07:34 AM

Estrada not working well with the pitchers would be a concern , seems telling that a GM would say that.

soupcan Nov 21 2007 08:12 AM

I like the Post's theory that they may just cut Estrada loose rather than offer him offer him arbitration. Basically just dumping Mota. I keep reading about the Mets having interest in Laird so maybe Omar's trying to swing that deal? But if they keep Estrada keep in mind that although his defense (according to the Brewers fans) was atrocious, he did have a bone spur last season and has since had it removed. Problem solved or at least addressed? Maybe. The Post article also said that Omar has not dismissed out of hand giving Castro a shot a the starting job. Of course thae question of Castro staying healthy enough to do that is a big one.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 21 2007 08:50 AM

Yeah, I don;t think we're necessarily done trying to find a catcher. Would you guys endorse a deal of Endy Chavez for Gerald Laird? The Rangers want a center fielder. Everyone loves Chavvy but we're nuts thinking we're going to keep on getting greatness out of him.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2007 08:55 AM

Moving Endy to someone blinded by his highlight reel would be smart. Cold-hearted, but smart.

metirish Nov 21 2007 09:04 AM

I'd do that deal for Laird. Neyer on Estrada( no more Neyer from me ) ] How big a catch is Estrada?posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry From the Department of Did He Really Say That, here's Omar Minaya on the Mets' new starting catcher: "Johnny adds depth to our catching situation," Mets general manager Omar Minaya said. "He's a former All-Star who switch-hits and has hit over .300 three times in his career." Estrada had arthroscopic surgery on his left knee Oct. 4 to repair a torn meniscus. He also had a bone spur removed from his right elbow. The operations were performed by Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham, Ala. Yes. Technically, Johnny Estrada has hit over .300 three times in his career. One of those times was in 2003, when he went 11-for-36 with the Braves, which figures out as .306. To be fair, Estrada also batted .328 with Triple-A Richmond that season. So he certainly had a good year. The next year he batted .314 in 134 games with the Braves, was an All-Star, and even picked up a few points in the MVP balloting (he finished behind Juan Pierre, but still). Since 2004, though, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive: .309 on-base percentage, .406 slugging. And much of that happened in Miller Park, a fairly neutral park. Estrada's a year older and moving to one of the toughest parks for hitters in the National League. He certainly won't be the worst catcher in the league, but I don't see many All-Star Games or .300 seasons in his future. Then again, maybe Dr. Andrews' tender care will work wonders. Estrada threw out only eight percent of the runners trying to steal against him last season, and presumably Minaya believes the elbow surgery was successful. But aren't they all?

Edgy DC Nov 21 2007 09:14 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2007 07:20 PM

How many all-star games does Neyer see in Mota's future? Let's get some perspective here. 1) Mota don't buy gold, not after last season. 2) There are worse things than a catcher with a .715 OPS. 3) GMs tend to say nice things about a player they've recently acquired. We all know there's a downside, but it makes more sense to talk about the factors that motivated you to pull the trigger. The question they're answering, after all, is "Why did you acquire that guy?" (if only implicitly). The Mets had plenty of good things to say when they got David Justice. then they flipped him before the week was over and it seemed they'd been planning to all along.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 21 2007 09:23 AM

Is Laird really anyone to get excited about? I mean, it looks like he'd be decent enough, but why trade anyone to get him? He doesn't seem like he'd be much of an improvement at all over Estrada and Castro. Let's go into 2008 with what we have at catcher and try again in 2009. (Too bad Jesus Flores isn't an option.) G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2007 120 407 48 91 18 3 9 47 142 30 103 6 2 0.278 0.349 0.224 Career 279 881 130 217 48 5 19 93 332 61 210 9 4 0.297 0.377 0.246

Rockin' Doc Nov 21 2007 11:24 AM

I'm not familiar with Laird, but seeing the stat line Yancy posted makes me want to steer clear of him. A career .246 hitter that strikes out close to 25% of his at bats while providing little power does not appear to be the answer for the Mets catching situation. I believe I would rather go with Castro/Estrada and keep Endy Chavez.

smg58 Nov 21 2007 12:18 PM

And Laird's putting up those mediocre numbers in Texas. His upside is Estrada's 2007 numbers. Would anybody here start him over Castro?

Centerfield Nov 21 2007 12:23 PM

metirish wrote: ="Centerfield"] I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him. I think that stuff is over rated, if you're a bollox you're a bollox. I'm being misquoted here. I feel like Paul LoDuca.

soupcan Nov 21 2007 12:32 PM

I think I read that Laird is very good defensively. I'm not advocating Castro, Estrada or Laird. Just looking at what the Mets options are and trying to figure out what Omar's thinking.

Nymr83 Nov 21 2007 01:00 PM

Centerfield wrote: ="metirish"] Centerfield wrote: I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him. I think that stuff is over rated, if you're a bollox you're a bollox. I'm being misquoted here. I feel like Paul LoDuca. tell him that other guys on this forum speak english too

RealityChuck Nov 24 2007 06:10 PM

Johnny Estrada is already the best Estrada to play for the Mets (as a Met). Though, of course, it's unlikely he'll be as interesting a trivia question as Chuck (a pitcher who won just one game for the team -- but a very historic one for the Franchise).

SteveJRogers Nov 25 2007 09:22 AM

RealityChuck wrote: Johnny Estrada is already the best Estrada to play for the Mets (as a Met). Though, of course, it's unlikely he'll be as interesting a trivia question as Chuck (a pitcher who won just one game for the team -- but a very historic one for the Franchise). UMDB is your friend Tom Seaver's debut That is a pretty interesting bit of trivia. And I assume that is why you said "the Franchise" the way you did!

RealityChuck Nov 25 2007 10:17 AM

Yup. I followed Chuck Estrada fairly closely that year, for his first name alone. He also was a pretty good pitcher when he came up: won 33 games his first two seasons, but hurt his arm and never came back. His win was the only decent game he pitched that year, and once his ERA flirted with 10, he was released.

Edgy DC Nov 25 2007 02:19 PM

He'll have to log a couple of games to best Francisco Estrada.

metirish Dec 13 2007 06:59 AM

News on Estrada, Johnson,Padilla and others. Mets cut ties with players Mark Prior and the Cubs part ways, he's worth a look I guess but his agent says Doctor Andrews expects Prior will be ready to pitch mid-May although the agent then said " "if you want to be conservative, tack a few months onto that." ".

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 07:20 AM

Adkins gets one inning pitched. Johnson gets 27 at-bats. That Ring-Bell trade is looking pretty bad this morning. And henceforth shall it remain.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 07:36 AM

Adam Rubin acknowledged that Johnson and Padilla were each recovering from their respective injuries slowly. I wondered if that wasn't a message from the Mets to lay off these guys, we want to re-sign them to minor league deals. Johnson is a real disappointment. I was hopeful they'd made a steal there.

[Frayed Knot]

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal:

Estrada and teammate Tony Graffanino were involved in a dugout altercation with manager Ned Yost in early August - ironically, in a game against the Mets - but that was not believed to be a factor in the trade.

"I don't really want to get into all of that," said [GM Doug] Melvin. "It doesn't do any good to talk about negatives."



More from Melvin:
"We're just looking for more of an energy level and a catcher who works well with pitchers."

If Estrada's energy level was down, his agent, David Schwartz, said it probably was related to the injuries he played with.
"I don't think Johnny got enough credit for playing hurt all season," said Schwartz.

After the season, Estrada had surgery to remove a bone spur from his elbow and repair torn cartilage in his left knee.



And from Estrada himself:
"I heard they wished I worked better with the pitching staff," said Estrada, who will be playing for his fourth team in four years. "That (ticks) me off. I think sometimes, as a general manager or an owner, or even a manager, you don't have the pulse of the team. (General manager Doug Melvin) is not in the clubhouse."

[TransMonk]

From the Brewers' board:

I asked: Would there have been any takers if I would have proposed that deal before it happened?

Answer: Nope. General consensus here is that we hoped to get a little bit more, especially because we had some leverage without having a replacement for Estrada inked. Most here think Estrada for Mota + our expected FA signing of Jason Kendall is a rather lateral move.

[metirish]

Estrada not working well with the pitchers would be a concern , seems telling that a GM would say that.

[soupcan]

I like the Post's theory that they may just cut Estrada loose rather than offer him offer him arbitration. Basically just dumping Mota.

I keep reading about the Mets having interest in Laird so maybe Omar's trying to swing that deal?

But if they keep Estrada keep in mind that although his defense (according to the Brewers fans) was atrocious, he did have a bone spur last season and has since had it removed. Problem solved or at least addressed? Maybe.

The Post article also said that Omar has not dismissed out of hand giving Castro a shot a the starting job. Of course thae question of Castro staying healthy enough to do that is a big one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I don;t think we're necessarily done trying to find a catcher.

Would you guys endorse a deal of Endy Chavez for Gerald Laird? The Rangers want a center fielder. Everyone loves Chavvy but we're nuts thinking we're going to keep on getting greatness out of him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Moving Endy to someone blinded by his highlight reel would be smart.

Cold-hearted, but smart.

[metirish]

I'd do that deal for Laird.

Neyer on Estrada( no more Neyer from me )

] How big a catch is Estrada?posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry From the Department of Did He Really Say That, here's Omar Minaya on the Mets' new starting catcher: "Johnny adds depth to our catching situation," Mets general manager Omar Minaya said. "He's a former All-Star who switch-hits and has hit over .300 three times in his career." Estrada had arthroscopic surgery on his left knee Oct. 4 to repair a torn meniscus. He also had a bone spur removed from his right elbow. The operations were performed by Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham, Ala. Yes. Technically, Johnny Estrada has hit over .300 three times in his career. One of those times was in 2003, when he went 11-for-36 with the Braves, which figures out as .306. To be fair, Estrada also batted .328 with Triple-A Richmond that season. So he certainly had a good year. The next year he batted .314 in 134 games with the Braves, was an All-Star, and even picked up a few points in the MVP balloting (he finished behind Juan Pierre, but still). Since 2004, though, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive: .309 on-base percentage, .406 slugging. And much of that happened in Miller Park, a fairly neutral park. Estrada's a year older and moving to one of the toughest parks for hitters in the National League. He certainly won't be the worst catcher in the league, but I don't see many All-Star Games or .300 seasons in his future. Then again, maybe Dr. Andrews' tender care will work wonders. Estrada threw out only eight percent of the runners trying to steal against him last season, and presumably Minaya believes the elbow surgery was successful. But aren't they all?

[Guest Edgy DC]

How many all-star games does Neyer see in Mota's future? Let's get some perspective here.

1) Mota don't buy gold, not after last season.

2) There are worse things than a catcher with a .715 OPS.

3) GMs tend to say nice things about a player they've recently acquired. We all know there's a downside, but it makes more sense to talk about the factors that motivated you to pull the trigger. The question they're answering, after all, is "Why did you acquire that guy?" (if only implicitly).

The Mets had plenty of good things to say when they got David Justice. then they flipped him before the week was over and it seemed they'd been planning to all along.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Is Laird really anyone to get excited about?

I mean, it looks like he'd be decent enough, but why trade anyone to get him? He doesn't seem like he'd be much of an improvement at all over Estrada and Castro.

Let's go into 2008 with what we have at catcher and try again in 2009. (Too bad Jesus Flores isn't an option.)

	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	TB	BB	SO	SB	CS	OBP	SLG	AVG
2007	120	407	48	91	18	3	9	47	142	30	103	6	2	0.278	0.349	0.224
Career	279	881	130	217	48	5	19	93	332	61	210	9	4	0.297	0.377	0.246

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I'm not familiar with Laird, but seeing the stat line Yancy posted makes me want to steer clear of him. A career .246 hitter that strikes out close to 25% of his at bats while providing little power does not appear to be the answer for the Mets catching situation.

I believe I would rather go with Castro/Estrada and keep Endy Chavez.

[smg58]

And Laird's putting up those mediocre numbers in Texas. His upside is Estrada's 2007 numbers. Would anybody here start him over Castro?

[Centerfield]

metirish wrote: ="Centerfield"] I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him. I think that stuff is over rated, if you're a bollox you're a bollox.

I'm being misquoted here. I feel like Paul LoDuca.

[soupcan]

I think I read that Laird is very good defensively.

I'm not advocating Castro, Estrada or Laird. Just looking at what the Mets options are and trying to figure out what Omar's thinking.

[nymr83]

Centerfield wrote: ="metirish"] Centerfield wrote: I'm guessing makeup of the mets is going to be a positive influence on him. I think that stuff is over rated, if you're a bollox you're a bollox. I'm being misquoted here. I feel like Paul LoDuca.

tell him that other guys on this forum speak english too

[RealityChuck]

Johnny Estrada is already the best Estrada to play for the Mets (as a Met).

Though, of course, it's unlikely he'll be as interesting a trivia question as Chuck (a pitcher who won just one game for the team -- but a very historic one for the Franchise).

[stevejrogers]

RealityChuck wrote: Johnny Estrada is already the best Estrada to play for the Mets (as a Met). Though, of course, it's unlikely he'll be as interesting a trivia question as Chuck (a pitcher who won just one game for the team -- but a very historic one for the Franchise).

UMDB is your friend

Tom Seaver's debut

That is a pretty interesting bit of trivia. And I assume that is why you said "the Franchise" the way you did!

[RealityChuck]

Yup. I followed Chuck Estrada fairly closely that year, for his first name alone.

He also was a pretty good pitcher when he came up: won 33 games his first two seasons, but hurt his arm and never came back. His win was the only decent game he pitched that year, and once his ERA flirted with 10, he was released.

[Guest Edgy DC]

He'll have to log a couple of games to best Francisco Estrada.

[metirish]

News on Estrada, Johnson,Padilla and others.

Mets cut ties with players


Mark Prior and the Cubs part ways, he's worth a look I guess but his agent says Doctor Andrews expects Prior will be ready to pitch mid-May although the agent then said " "if you want to be conservative, tack a few months onto that."
".