The science of pitching

[Willets Point]

...or why we need short-armed pitchers.

Another cool link: http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=B02612B9-E7F2-99DF-3A8C049254F8534B&ref

[nymr83]

of course, the guy with the longer arm releases the ball that much closer to the plate, he is also likely to be taller and have the advantage of downward motion

[Centerfield]

That answer seems to defy common sense.

[Guest Clueless Koolaid Guzzler]

marshalls lying.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

All of my classes in maths and sciences apparently didn't adequately prepare to understand how a shorter has an advantage in leverage over a longer arm when throwing a ball. Maybe marathon can explain it so that I can understand it, but the explaination just sounds backwards to me.

Welcome to the pool Clueless Koolaid Guzzler. Please try not to spill any koolaid in the water.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Keep in mind that the legs and torso create torque also.

[nymr83]

can kool-aid man pitch? he's got short arms and a Wells-like girth!

[stevejrogers]

Nymr83 wrote: can kool-aid man pitch? he's got short arms and a Wells-like girth!

There was a TV commerical, mid-80's with Pete Rose and the ad ended up with the Kool-Aid guy throwing a ball. Something akin to a Mr. Met shirt ball toss.

[MFS62]

There used to be an expression about pitchers saying that he was "short-arming" the ball. But that meant the pitcher wasn't extending his arm to full length. He was bending the arm at the elbow while releasing the ball. Baseball "lore" said this was not the best delivery, and sometimes allowed the batters to spot what was coming (e.g. curve ball).

This is different all together. It really means the guy has a short arm.
From what I know of physics, it would seem that the angular momentum of a longer pitching arc would increase the velocity of the throw. But that is in theory.
Maybe these scientists have disproven pure Physics.
If so, Oslo may be calling.

Later

[metsmarathon]

i'll have to think about how best to explain it, but i agree with the answer. it makes sense.

the best i can do on short notice is suggest you consider a figure skater spinning out on the ice. the closer they bring in their arms, the more quickly they spin. to slow their rotation at the end of their spin, they again spread their arms out wide.

the reason we thing that a longer arm is going to yield a faster exit velocity is because we assume that both the short arm and the long arm will have the same rotational velocity.

in that case, the velocity of the ball on exit would be, for the most part, w x r, or rotational velocity times radius, and the difference in the radius would correspond directly to an increased velocity.

what mike marshall is telling us is that the shorter armed guy will, for the same amount of force, have a higher radial velocity, and i take it that the difference in radial velocity is enough to overcome the advantage the longer pitcher has in radius.

not knowing and not being presented with the moments of inertia, radial distances, and rotational velocities, i can't check the math.

but it can make sense to me.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Bill James, while confessing no knowledge of biomechanics, looked at descriptions of Honus Wagner --- long torso, short limbs, bow-legs --- and began scratching his head. Wagner, among what we all know about him, was pretty much adept anywhere on the field that the Pirates put him, including the mound.

He compared that to what we can see with our own eyes in the film of Babe Ruth and wondered if maybe a long torso and short limbs might be something like the ideal body type for baseball. I know I've written here before that, since first reading James' speculation, I've stumbled upon at least two other guys who were multi-positional players described as having bowed-legs. I can't remember who right now, but Joel Youngblood and Howard Johnson spring to mind. Maybe Paul Molitor.

[Guest iramets]

Of Wagner it was said that he couldn't herd pigs in an alley.