Gather the wood. . .time to fire up the Stove!!

[Valadius]

Considering that it would be for just the short term, they might take him. They'd be rid of his contract quickly.

[Guest cleonjones11]

Castillo and Loduca would be nice..Tampa bay would get Petit Milledge and everything else for Lugo and Huff

Beginning to think Lastings Milledge will be in LF after Floyd for a long long time

[Guest heep]

I think if the Mets sign Wagner they become a playoff team as is. This is putting alot of confidence in the rookies, especially Jacobs and Diaz. But I have a feeling that Jacobs is the real deal, and, given the at-bats, will produce.

I'm as die-hard as they come, and I have to say I am vehemently opposed to trading Jacobs, Milledge, Petit..etc. I want to see Milledge, Petit and Bannister next year. I want to see Humber and Pelfrey in the rotation in 2007. Bring the guys up, build a dynasty from within. F Delgado. He had his chance to play for us.

At least that is how I feel.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I wouldn't mind seeing them bring the lot of them back either. But that's placing a lot of pressure on better years from Beltran & Matsui, a good year from Diaz and Jacobs, avoiding a slide from Cliff, and finding Piazza's missing O out of Castro + ?

We already know our O wasn't quite good enough last year.

[Valadius]

Project Jake-Monster over a full season, get a better 2B, replace Piazza, and our offense will suffice.

[Guest heep]

I think the Mets have given up on Matsui. I have (Mets and Marlins talking in a deal for Castillo)

Wasn't Castillo hurt last year? Again, hypothetically, trading Anderson Hernandez for Castillo. Maybe Castillo is on the down and out. Maybe Anderosn ernadez is on the up and up. I do not think it is a stretch to say Hernandez is a younger, faster version of Castillo. Slick glove, switch hit, etc.

Then again, maybe Hernandez will flop, and Castillo will hit 300 again. Decisions decisions. Why take 3 years on Ramirez, when you can get 15 from Milledge. Think long-term.

Personally, the win-now appraoch, i.e. Kazmir/Zambrano, nags the shit out of me. Don't ask me why.

Fans take more to players who come up throught the system. I do. Does anyone have an explanation for that?

I say dump Matsui's K. Take the chance with the kids. If I have to pay to see Matsui swing at balls 2 ft. out of the zone next summer I'm going to puke.

[smg58]

heep wrote: I think the Mets have given up on Matsui. I have (Mets and Marlins talking in a deal for Castillo)

It's pretty clear the Mets don't want Matsui back. The question is how to get rid of him. The only rumor I've heard involves Pudge, but I can't imagine Detroit would consider Pudge for Kaz a fair deal. (Pudge's poor OBP last year notwithstanding, I don't think you could say no to them if they actually do want that.)

heep wrote: Wasn't Castillo hurt last year? Again, hypothetically, trading Anderson Hernandez for Castillo.

The Marlins already have a SS prospect they'll now have to switch to 2B assuming this deal with the Sox goes. At this point, they'll ask for pitching. I'm not sure what the Mets' plans are for Hernandez at this point, though.

heep wrote: Personally, the win-now appraoch, i.e. Kazmir/Zambrano, nags the shit out of me. Don't ask me why.

Why? Look at all the success it's brought the Knicks.

There are right and wrong ways, and right and wrong situations, to deal prospects for veterans. The fact that Kazmir has already given the D-Rays more than Zambano has given the Mets says all that needs to be said about that particular trade. Right now (unlike in 03), the Mets are one or two players from contention. The trick is to find the right balance between the long-term and short-term interests of the team. Any deal that involves Lastings Milledge will probably take away from the team four years from now, for example, but it's not really clear if that's true for players like Hernandez.

heep wrote: Fans take more to players who come up throught the system. I do. Does anyone have an explanation for that?

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. It took a few months, but we all warmed up to Piazza. Fans may have more patience with a struggling rookie than they would with a struggling Carlos Beltran, but anybody who does what's expected of them will get cheers.

heep wrote: I say dump Matsui's K. Take the chance with the kids. If I have to pay to see Matsui swing at balls 2 ft. out of the zone next summer I'm going to puke.

I'd prefer giving Hernandez or Keppinger the chance over Matsui myself (although I know a few people here wouldn't). But you have to keep your expectations realistic, and you have to see if there are better options out there at an acceptable cost.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't recall swinging at balls well out of the strike zone being a particular issue with Matsui.

Valadius wrote: Project Jake-Monster over a full season, get a better 2B, replace Piazza, and our offense will suffice.

None of those things is easily done alone. Pulling them all off together is somewhat less than likely. That's just how things fall.

[metirish]

] I don't recall swinging at balls well out of the strike zone being a particular issue with Matsui. ] IIRC he was pretty bad hitting leftie.

abogdan Nov 23 2005 08:44 AM

Daily News sez Delgado could be a Met by tomorrow.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 01:53 PM

Due to a craptastic archiving error, I inadvertantly split the last 14 posts into a new thead. Sorry about that. Here they are: Elster88 118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 4662 Location: Connecticut Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matsui is going to hit .315 next year with 48 doubles. Mark it down. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST Back to top smg58 470) Bill Latham SP, RP, 1985 Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 311 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But what if he doesn't spend the whole year in Norfolk? Back to top abogdan494) Bill Short RP, 1968 Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 74 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Omar isn't done. Latest rumor in the Post: Benson and Bannister for Vazquez. Back to top Yancy Street Gang 32) Todd Hundley C, OF, 1990-1998 Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 6990 Location: The Baxter Building Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This hasn't been a typical offseason so far, and I guess the Marlins have a lot to do with it. Usually the trades don't start happening until after the prominent free agents have signed. But the Mets have already made a deal with San Diego, and the Marlins now look like they've made two big ones. Back to top metirish 122) Frank Thomas OF, 1B, 3B,1962-1964 Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 4590 Location: NY Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd hate to see Anna Benson traded to Arizona, and especially for Vazquez, he's owed a lot of freaking money the next few years.. Back to top Edgy DC Site Admin Joined: 05 Nov 2002 Posts: 4916 Location: DC Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minaya needs to take a time out. _________________ K Back to top Valadius 371) Darrin Jackson OF, 1993 Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1306 Location: Washington, DC Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finish up with Nightcrawler first, Omar, please. _________________ "Buy the ticket, take the ride" -- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Creator of "Jake-Monster" Back to top seawolf17 171) Mo Vaughn 1B, 2002-2003 Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3617 Location: LI Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey, as long as Valadius gets one nickname out of this off-season, he's a happy man. Back to top Rotblatt 227) Tim Harkness 1B, 1963-1964 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 2747 Location: Brooklyn Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vazquez is still being subsidized by the Yankees, so he's actually not that expensive. I'll see if I can find out how much they're paying him then post it here . . . Back to top Elster88 118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 4662 Location: Connecticut Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would LOVE to have an effective player on the Mets and have part of the bill sent to the Bronx. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST Back to top sharpie 206) Roger Mason RP, 1994 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 2952 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Course if we get Vazquez it would wreck our "no-former-Yankees" quest. Back to top Elster88 118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 4662 Location: Connecticut Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sharpie wrote: 'Course if we get Vazquez it would wreck our "no-former-Yankees" quest. It would be beautiful for us to get a guy who was traded for an old man with a bad back and have him pitch lights out. It would also knock out some of those people who are all about the pressure of New York. _____________________________ THE LAST ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST (until I reach 11,000). Until then, O greatest shortstop of all time. Back to top Rotblatt 227) Tim Harkness 1B, 1963-1964 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 2747 Location: Brooklyn Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so it looks like Vazquez is owed $23M over the next two years, BUT the Yankees are paying $6M of it. So basically, he'd be getting $8.5M per year. Benson is getting $7.5M per year and has $7.5M option for 2008 with a $.5M buyout. Vazquez is two years younger. Neither have been particularly good lately but Vazquez would seem to have a much higher ceiling, having posted ERA+s of 135 & 154. Benson has never broke 120. Vazquez is much more of a strikeout pitcher and has better control. The only real advantage that Benson has is HR/9--0.98 to 1.22--and Vazquez should be able to get away with being a fly ball pitcher at Shea. Vazquez has also been far more durable than Benson. If we can get Vazquez for Benson & Bannister, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Back to top Elster88 118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992 Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 4662 Location: Connecticut Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent analysis, Rotty. I was thinking this but it's much easier to let someone else do the heavy lifting. Edit: Wally Whitehurst was NOT more valuable to this franchise than Kevin Elster. _____________________________ This post had the designation 118) Wally Whitehurst Back to top Nymr83 363) Dan Norman OF, 1977-1980 Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 1386 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Elster88 wrote: Matsui is going to hit .315 next year with 48 doubles. Mark it down. Hideki Matsui maybe

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 01:56 PM

Wow...great analysis Rotty.

Willets Point Nov 23 2005 02:21 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Due to a craptastic archiving error, I inadvertantly split the last 14 posts into a new thead. You're a craptastic archivist. You better prepare yourself for an ink bath when Squiddy learns you've been messing around on his turf!

Johnny Dickshot Nov 23 2005 03:26 PM

Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 03:29 PM

="Johnny Dickshot"]Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland. Kelly Rowland? That's a helluva deal for the Phils. I didn't know the White Sox had her rights.

metirish Nov 23 2005 03:31 PM

Super deal for us, with the Yanks looking/needing a center fielder that's one more gone...I assume you mean Rowan..yes?

Valadius Nov 23 2005 03:32 PM

You mean Aaron Rowand?

MFS62 Nov 23 2005 03:40 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland. Now I understand why my friend the Chisox fan told me they had interest in acquiring Juan Pierre. I couldn't see how they could have both Rowand AND Pierre in the same lineup. The GO-GO Sox were so forty-five years ago. Later

abogdan Nov 23 2005 04:02 PM

White Sox could move Podsdnik to center, they also have prospect Brian Anderson waiting in the wings. They could still sign Konerko to play 1B and have Thome DH.

abogdan Nov 23 2005 04:04 PM

Oh yeah, great deal for the Phils. Thome was ridiculously overpaid and they had no place for him to play with Howard at 1B. That they got someone they could plug into their lineup, let alone a top CF just entering his prime, is amazing.

Rotblatt Nov 24 2005 07:57 AM

So apparently, we're no longer considering Soriano. Good. We're also no longer considering Manny unless his price drops (I'm assuming in prospects) and/or we clear out some salary. Good. I'm pretty happy about our offseason so far. According to the Daily News, the D-Backs are the ones who proposed the Vazquez for Benson & Bannister trade. If that's true, I seriously hope we're talking to the D-Backs. Maybe we can get them to take someone other than Bannister or maybe if they're high on Bannister, we can swap Zambrano for Benson.

smg58 Nov 24 2005 10:15 AM

Javy's last two years weren't that good, and the fact that he was already chased out of New York once, and that a second team wants to get rid of him after one year, is really discouraging. Although Benson hasn't pitched to his promise either. I don't see much separating the two, honestly. If they can be persuaded to part with Chad Tracy or one of their young outfielders like Carlos Quentin or Conor Jackson, I'd be willing to trade Trachsel and Bannister and take on the extra money. Otherwise it's like trading Bannister for nothing.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 10:52 AM

Vazquez wasn't chased out of New York, and Arizona, by all reports, doesn't want to get rid of him. That said, I see Benson as comparable right now, but it's hard to forget that Vazquez at his best was in a stratosphere Benson has never sniffed.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 24 2005 11:27 AM

Vazquez must have been awfully frustrating for MFY fans. He'd pitch lights out for a few innings, then KABOOM. Seemed like he'd give up a 3-run homer in every start he made. Pitchers who consistently cough up the longball make me nervous.

Nymr83 Nov 24 2005 03:45 PM

i'll take Vazquez over Benson and Bannister isn't good enough that he should stop you from making a deal. Vazquez has more upside and i believe a better strikeout rate (which is good when the infield D isn't looking so good) his love of fly balls won't hurt him at Shea where that monstrous wind seems to kill everything in the air for 2/3 of the season.

Valadius Nov 24 2005 07:57 PM

If we're building for the future, though, we should keep in mind that a new ballpark is on its way.

Nymr83 Nov 24 2005 08:22 PM

i'm not really willing to look that far into the future when it comes to building a team, if it was opening in 2007 maybe i'd take it into account foir 2006, but considering that it won't be for several years after that its pretty much irrelevant right now.

OlerudOwned Nov 29 2005 10:20 AM

Phillies look to replace Wagner with Tom Gordon http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2239894 ]The Phillies have stepped up their efforts to sign Gordon in recent days, according to two sources who have spoken with them. What is still unclear is whether they are willing to give Gordon the three-year contract he is looking for at age 38. Also ]And since the Phillies need to add setup men in addition to a closer, that would free up money to reel in both. And the Phillies are also actively chasing setup men. They would have been interested in Gordon regardless of whether they signed Wagner. And they made a run at Bobby Howry before he agreed to a three-year, $13-million deal with the Cubs. They're now believed to be honing in on deals with Wagner's predecessor with the Mets, Braden Looper, and former Brewers right-hander Rafael Santana -- both of whom would be used to set up. I'd love to see Philly suffer Looper Cardiac Syndrome

Yancy Street Gang Nov 29 2005 10:22 AM

Rafael Santana?

Edgy DC Nov 29 2005 10:32 AM

Guess he means Julio. Jayson crashes on autopilot.

Elster88 Nov 29 2005 10:42 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Vazquez must have been awfully frustrating for MFY fans. He'd pitch lights out for a few innings, then KABOOM. Seemed like he'd give up a 3-run homer in every start he made. Pitchers who consistently cough up the longball make me nervous. Like Pedro?

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2005 11:11 AM

Say what?!? I didn't realize that a HR every 11.5 innings (19 in 217 IPs) was a lot.

Elster88 Nov 29 2005 11:18 AM

Oops. I read the numbers wrong. Thanks for the double check, LFK.

Elster88 Nov 29 2005 11:38 AM

With Wagner gone, the Phillies may look to Flash.

Willets Point Nov 29 2005 12:51 PM

Elster88 wrote: With Wagner gone, the Phillies may look to Flash. Better them than us.

OlerudOwned Nov 29 2005 01:23 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Guess he means Julio. Jayson crashes on autopilot. I dont know if it was him, but one of them refered to Wagner as a dominant righty. I guess they're slipping.

OlerudOwned Nov 29 2005 08:56 PM

Phillies make another move, and are involved in a biiiig rumor. 1st, the real stuff: Free-agent infielder Abraham Nunez and the Phillies agreed Tuesday to a $3.35 million, two-year contract ]A native of the Dominican Republic, Nunez will likely platoon at third with David Bell, who hit just .199 against right-handers last season. Nunez hit .277 against right-handers last year. Now for the rumor, from none other than Mark Healey and Gotham Baseball: ]http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1607 The Yankees have been abnormally quiet these past few weeks, but that doesn't mean they haven't been hard at work. Last week's reported interest in Philadelphia's Jason Michaels may have sown the seeds of a blockbuster type of deal that would send Carl Pavano, Eric Duncan and Jorge Posada to the Phillies in exchange for Bobby Abreu and Mike Lieberthal. The Phillies feel Pavano can be inserted right into their rotation, Eric Duncan is their third baseman of the future, and Posada can be an upgrade over Lieberthal. The Yankees, who have begun to shop Gary Sheffield quite actively in hopes of dealing him during the winter meetings, want to add the suddenly very available Abreu to both their lineup and in RF. We'll keep you posted Does this mean they think Duncan is ready for some point this coming season?

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2005 10:21 PM

]Does this mean they think Duncan is ready for some point this coming season? If they do they're the only ones. Duncan actually regressed somewhat this past year before having a good AFL. There's also some question about his defense and about whether he'll even be a 3rd baseman in the future or need to move across the diamond. I don't believe that rumored trade for a second. Posada has an option for next year that kicks in at a very reachable # of games (90-some games started). IOW, he'll almost certainly be very expensive ($20mil or so) over the next 2 years. I don't see Philly taking on his $20 and Pavano's $30+ just to get Eric Frickin Duncan. Lieberthal's out after this year (I believe) and Abreu's reasonable.

Edgy DC Nov 29 2005 10:25 PM

Such a deal would look good for the Mets, I think.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 29 2005 10:27 PM

Eric Duncan & Friend

Willets Point Nov 30 2005 12:36 PM

It think the Mets should go hard after Carlos Guillen, Carlos Lee and Carlos Baerga so that they may corner the All-Star Carlos market in MLB.

Centerfield Nov 30 2005 02:42 PM

It's almost 3 p.m. How come we haven't signed a player today?

Yancy Street Gang Nov 30 2005 02:53 PM

They could at least give us a Tike Redman press conference.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 30 2005 04:35 PM

I like what Marty Noble is saying today on MLB.com: ]Heilman, Milledge not going anywhere 11/30/2005 11:30 AM ET By Marty Noble / MLB.com NEW YORK -- The Winter Meetings are on the immediate horizon, and the Mets, reveling in the momentum of their recent successes, say they are not done remodeling. That may make those without trade protection or primary roles a bit uneasy, but Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge need not be. Indeed, the Mets' second-most valuable reliever and their primary prospect are in position to buy some green bananas. Neither will be changing career paths anytime soon. That became increasingly evident during the Mets' trade negotiations with the Marlins for Carlos Delgado. Heilman and Milledge would have made a more appealing package than Mike Jacobs and Yusmeiro Petit, even though Heilman would have been in position to earn more from the cost-conscious Marlins than Jacobs. As much as general manager Omar Minaya wanted Delgado's left-handed power, he wouldn't deal either. Moreover, the Mets' reluctance to deal Heilman or Milledge was reinforced Tuesday by members of the club hierarchy as they basked in the glow of the team's signing of closer Billy Wagner. One said neither will be involved in a deal that would import Manny Ramirez, making such an acquisition even less likely. And another expressed confidence the Mets could make the trades they need to make without dealing Heilman or Milledge. "There's nothing -- no one -- we have in mind that we think will require us to move either [Heilman or Milledge]," another person said. "We think we can make the moves we want without hurting ourselves at other positions." The club still needs to define its catching assignments and now is more inclined to do so by trade than by signing either of the high-profile, high-priced free agent catchers -- Bengie Molina or Ramon Hernandez. The Mets believe neither would be enough of an acquisition to warrant the projected price tag. They have made offers to each, but the offers were designed to determine what the catchers won't accept. In the unlikely event Molina or Hernandez accept the Mets' offer, the club would be pleased. But the more likely and preferred scenario is to trade for a catcher who will share the assignment with Ramon Castro and put the money not spent on a new backstop toward importing a free agent reliever. The Mets have their eye on Toby Hall of the Devil Rays to share the work with Castro, but the Rays are hesitant about dealing unless Heilman is involved. The value Heilman has to the Mets could decrease if a left-handed reliever were obtained, but probably not to the degree at which the Mets would feel comfortable dealing him. At this point, he is their most effective setup reliever against left-handed hitters. And with Heilman increasing his arm strength as a starter in winter ball, he is, more than ever, the one setup reliever manager Willie Randolph can use in challenging situations without regard for left-handed or right-handed hitting. That would mean fewer pitching changes and less need for relievers to warm up.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 30 2005 04:43 PM

I don't think the Mets will deal Milledge either. I mean, I like to think that, but even assuming Omar is a retarded child attracted to big shiny things, which is how most mediots tend to discuss him, he'd have to be especially retarded to move Milledge in a Manny deal now, considering how positive the reports are, how willing the Bosox appear to be, and importantly, how the hell he's ever going to sustain the team financially in the event they do all that and still need something else, which they will. Not only are Milledge (and Heilman) good and good bets get better, but they're assured of being good and cheap. Trading either now is dumb with a capital J.

OlerudOwned Dec 02 2005 05:52 PM

MLB.com: Rangers have offer ready for Dotel http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051201&content_id=1274820&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp ]The Rangers have an offer out to reliever Octavio Dotel. Dotel was the Oakland A's closer in 2004 and he held that position until he had season-ending Tommy John surgery earlier this year. Dotel was with Houston before Oakland and had developed into one of the game's premier setup men, a role the Rangers would like for him to reprise in 2006 ahead of closer Francisco Cordero. Don Horwits, the agent for Dotel, told the Dallas Morning News that his client is looking for a one-year, incentive-laden deal that would allow Dotel an opportunity to prove himself coming off surgery.

Centerfield Dec 05 2005 10:59 AM

Combining a couple of ideas in other threads.... Right now, our 6 through 9 looks like this: 6. Nady 7. LoDuca 8. Matsui 9. Pitcher Pretty shitty. Assuming LoDuca isn't flipped for Vazquez, he's more or less locked in at catcher. With Castillo now off the table, I'm not sure there's much out there that would significantly improve us over Matsui (plus we'd have to eat his contract anyway). That leaves only RF as a viable option for an offensive upgrade. I'm not sure this has been discussed yet, but if Philly is looking to deal Abreu (and it's unlikely he'll get traded for Manny), why not talk to them and see who they'd need? I realize it's in the division, and they're actually looking to compete next year unlike Florida, but it would seem the two sides match up fairly decently. We could offer pitching, such as Benson, and they could take their pick of Diaz or Nady.

Valadius Dec 05 2005 11:04 AM

Taking Abreu would probably end up shifting our lineup this way: 1. Reyes 2. Abreu 3. Beltran 4. Delgado 5. Wright 6. Floyd 7. Lo Duca 8. Matsui 9. (Pitcher)

smg58 Dec 05 2005 12:06 PM

I'd be shocked if the Phillies offer us Abreu, but I'd certainly ask about him.

Valadius Dec 05 2005 12:15 PM

Apparently he's being shopped rather vigorously.

Rotblatt Dec 05 2005 12:19 PM

I don't mind that 6-8. Nady/Diaz should be good for .800 OPS or over, and Lo Duca should be better than .700. Matsui might suck, but we can carry one black hole in our lineup. And consider, we had a killer #6-8 last year, mostly because Willie was slow in advancing Wright. Mientkiewicz (.970 OPS), Woody (.875 OPS), Diaz (.884 ops) & Jake (1.248 ops) all beat the shit out of the #7 spot as well: 6. .779 OPS 7. .843 OPS 8. .766 OPS Our problem was our 1-3, which we've significantly upgraded: 1. .671 OPS 2. .658 OPS 3. .774 OPS Replacing Cairo with Beltran improves us dramatically, as does replacing Beltran with any of Wright, Floyd or Delgado.

seawolf17 Dec 05 2005 12:23 PM

]Sosa claims several teams want to sign him SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic -- Outfielder Sammy Sosa said he's talking with several teams interested in signing him for next season. The Baltimore Orioles said last month they wouldn't bring back Sosa or fellow slugger Rafael Palmeiro, both of whom struggled this past season. Sosa declined to say which teams he's talking to, but said he'll make an announcement about where he'll play sometime after the annual winter baseball meetings, which begin Monday. "We're negotiating with several teams," Sosa said in comments published Sunday in the daily newspaper HOY, in his native Dominican Republic. "We're going to make it a surprise." Some have speculated that Sosa could join the New York Mets, whose general manager, Omar Minaya, signed Sosa to his first professional contract in the 1980s when Minaya was a scout for the Texas Rangers. "Sammy only needs an opportunity to play and show that he's recovered" from nagging injuries that hurt his play this year, Minaya was quoted as saying in the Sunday edition of El Nacional, another Dominican daily. The 37-year-old Sosa came to the Orioles in a February trade with the Chicago Cubs for second baseman Jerry Hairston and two minor leaguers. Sosa was expected to provide the Orioles with a powerful bat in the cleanup spot, but ended up hitting only .221 with 14 homers and 45 RBI in 102 games during an injury-shortened season. Sosa said he's confident of signing with another team and playing well. "I'm at peace because I trust in what I've done in the past. I'm Sammy Sosa and everyone remembers it," Sosa was quoted as saying in HOY. Yikes.

Edgy DC Dec 05 2005 12:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2005 01:45 PM

I think he may have broken Roger Clemens record for the Hall of Famer who generated the most ill will upon leaving the team he's most associated with. For entries before that, we have to go back to what --- the twenties with Rogers Hornsby? Did bad feelings over his departure linger? It'll be interesting to see him try and rehab his reputation before his induction speech in 2012 or so.

OlerudOwned Dec 05 2005 07:59 PM

Blue Jays closing on Burnett to the tune of 5 years, 55 million http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2248966 Reminding us all that they have a baseball team still. They even won 2 W.S. In a row!

Yancy Street Gang Dec 05 2005 08:38 PM

When a team in the AL East decides to go for it, I'm happy.

Centerfield Dec 06 2005 06:10 PM

As business hours come to a close on Day 2, I have to say, the Mets whirlwind of activity isn't quite as whirlwindy as they said it was going to be...

Elster88 Dec 07 2005 01:26 PM

Gammons: ]Mets GM Omar Minaya asked Beane about Zito on Tuesday. "He told me he's not moving him," said Minaya.

MFS62 Dec 07 2005 01:29 PM

M&MD just reported that the A's have allowed the Mets to talk to Zito about a contract extension. Later

soupcan Dec 07 2005 01:33 PM

But Minaya says Beane's not moving him! Who the crap do you believe?

Yancy Street Gang Dec 07 2005 01:34 PM

If the Mets have really been granted permission, we'll hear about it. The commissioner's office has to approve of that permission.

metirish Dec 07 2005 01:35 PM

I was at a winter( union) meeting today at work and some guys there told me Zito will be a Met before sunrise....

soupcan Dec 07 2005 01:36 PM

I'm guessing that means sayonara to Milledge. Lastings we hardly knew ye.

Elster88 Dec 07 2005 01:47 PM

soupcan wrote: I'm guessing that means sayonara to Milledge. Lastings we hardly knew ye. It's too bad, I guess, but I'll trade him for the existence 2006 WS ring with the words "Mets" and "Zito". I am getting very excited. Put back the countdown until opening day, ye gods, er mods.

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2005 01:50 PM

="MFS62"]M&MD just reported that the A's have allowed the Mets to talk to Zito about a contract extension. I was listening and didn't hear them say that. They said "there are reports" that it may be the case, and that the team would want to talk to him before any deal since you'd only be trading for 1 season but, rumors aside, they didn't say the process was already ongoing. ]If the Mets have really been granted permission, we'll hear about it. The commissioner's office has to approve of that permission. Egg-Zactly! Also, fans also seem to think this is a lot more common than it actually is. I can't remember the last time a player - at least one w/o veto power over a trade like Unit or Schilling - willingly gave up his FA rights to pre-negotiate a deal before a trade.

seawolf17 Dec 07 2005 01:59 PM

metirish wrote: I was at a winter( union) meeting today at work and some guys there told me Zito will be a Met before sunrise.... Irish apparently is in the same union as Valadius's dad.

metirish Dec 07 2005 02:02 PM

LOL...anyway form David Lennon in Newsday.. ]DALLAS -- Frustrated by the complexity of a megadeal for Manny Ramirez, the Mets have ramped up their discussions involving Barry Zito, and the club already has inquired about the possibility of signing him to an extension as part of any trade with the Athletics.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 07 2005 02:12 PM

Ken Rosenthal sez: Braves get D-baggs relievers Cormier and Villareal for C Johnny Estrada. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5147106 Pads get Ray P Dewon Brazelton for Burrroughs: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5144382

Edgy DC Dec 07 2005 02:12 PM

Yeah, because the key is not to improve your team, but to have a "meagadeal."

metirish Dec 07 2005 02:14 PM

WOW, Estrada for those two...they have that kid catcher though, right?

soupcan Dec 07 2005 02:25 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Pads get Ray P Dewon Brazelton for Burrroughs: Wow, Pods finally give up on Burroughs.

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2005 02:28 PM

]Ken Rosenthal sez: Braves get D-baggs relievers Cormier and Villareal for C Johnny Estrada. Interesting. Risky for DBacks because Estrada was really messed up by that collision at the plate w/Erstad (they hit so hard their shirts switched names) and wasn't the same after. Supposedly he's on the mend. Braves pen was a real problem last year. They drafted a college closer (Foster) who they were breaking in in September, plus they have the kid catcher (McCann) plus another they like even better (Saltalamacchia -- can they fit that name on a shirt?) rushing through the minors. One more market closes for the 2 FA catchers. ]Pads get Ray P Dewon Brazelton for Burrroughs: A couple of disappointments swapped for each other.

sharpie Dec 07 2005 02:31 PM

At the bottom of the Estrada story it said that Ramon Hernandez is about to sign with the Orioles. If true, there goes one of them.

soupcan Dec 07 2005 02:33 PM

Excuse me but doesn't Javy Lopez catch for the O's?

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2005 02:35 PM

With the steroid boys - Sammy & Raffy - gone, I think Javy will be a DH more often than not from here on out.

soupcan Dec 07 2005 02:36 PM

I guess so.

seawolf17 Dec 07 2005 02:52 PM

The Pirates ended the season with two Redmans; they will begin 2006 with none, as lefty Mark Redman was dealt to KC for a minor leaguer. Adding a guy who went 5-15 last year to a team that lost 100 games ain't gonna be pretty.

Valadius Dec 07 2005 03:41 PM

Padres 3B Sean Burroughs has been traded to Tampa Bay for RHP Dewon Brazelton.

Valadius Dec 07 2005 04:17 PM

Ken Rosenthal was right - Estrada to D-Backs for Cormier and Villarreal. Also, the Red Sox have acquired 2B Mark Loretta from San Diego for C Doug Mirabelli.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 07 2005 04:39 PM

Why would the Pads trade Loretta for Mirabelli? Do they have a knuckleballer in need of a catcher?

smg58 Dec 07 2005 07:13 PM

They must think Mirabelli can start. I wonder if that means the Red Sox plan on keeping Shoppach after all. The Padres are making room for Josh Barfield at second, and I'm guessing will give Ben Jonson a shot in left while putting Klesko back at first. As for Loretta, he's still a solid defender and OBP guy, but his power just vanished last year. He could bounce back or nosedive. Speaking of the Padres, they just brought back Trevor for two years and $13.5M. I don't think he's as good now as he was in his prime, but given the market for relievers that's still a bargain. Regarding the Braves deal: Villareal had a fantastic season in 03, but I'm not sure whose brilliant idea it was to ask a 21-year-old rookie reliever for 98 innings. While he hasn't been right since, he only just turned 24 and wouldn't be Mazzone's first successful reclamation project.

Valadius Dec 07 2005 07:33 PM

Except Mazzone's now pitching coach of the Baltimore Orioles.

Nymr83 Dec 07 2005 07:36 PM

good deal for the redsox. Loretta can leadoff if Damon leaves town.

Valadius Dec 07 2005 07:38 PM

The Cubs, in their second move of the day, have agreed to terms with John Mabry, formerly with the Cardinals.

DocTee Dec 07 2005 07:43 PM

I'd have preferred Omar land Loretta than Nady for Mike C. He's rock-steady, and solid if unspectacular Hell, I'd have almost prefer Mirabelli over LoDuca. IMO, Loretta and Mirabelli>>LoDuca and Nady

Johnny Dickshot Dec 07 2005 07:51 PM

Braves trade Danny Kolb back to Milwaukee for lunchbucket picther Wes Obermuller.

Valadius Dec 07 2005 08:07 PM

Braves closers (with the exception of John Smoltz) haven't turned out well recently, have they?

smg58 Dec 07 2005 09:15 PM

Valadius wrote: Except Mazzone's now pitching coach of the Baltimore Orioles. Forgot about that! So I guess his reclamation project is LaTroy Hawkins. We'll see if Kolb can remember how to pitch back in Milwaukee

GYC Dec 07 2005 09:23 PM

soupcan wrote: Excuse me but doesn't Javy Lopez catch for the O's? I was reading earlier in the offseason that they may try Javy Lopez at 1st a bit... I'll see if I can dig it up.

GYC Dec 07 2005 09:25 PM

GYC wrote: ="soupcan"]Excuse me but doesn't Javy Lopez catch for the O's? I was reading earlier in the offseason that they may try Javy Lopez at 1st a bit... I'll see if I can dig it up. Here we go - faster than I thought - but it looks more like it was just speculation. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles03nov03,1,4352124.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball&ctrack=1&cset=true ="On November 3rd, 2005, it was"]The Orioles also are expected to talk to Eric Goldschmidt, the agent for Padres catcher Ramon Hernandez, who is one of the Orioles' top targets, according to a team source. The signing of either Hernandez or the Los Angeles Angels' Bengie Molina could result in the Orioles' moving Javy Lopez to first base, filling a hole there.

DocTee Dec 07 2005 09:31 PM

Late Wednesday, another rumor popped up, with the Phillies said to have offered outfielder Bobby Abreu, catcher Mike Lieberthal and pitching prospect Gavin Floyd for lefty Barry Zito and catcher Jason Kendall.

metirish Dec 07 2005 11:16 PM

The Redsox are apparently looking to trade Renteria to the Braves in a three-team deal that would send Devil Rays shortstop Julio Lugo to Boston. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/mlbrumors.html

Rotblatt Dec 08 2005 10:24 AM

That's a great deal for Boston, even if they pay half. Marte was being heralded as the next Wright just a year ago, and Renteria was pretty bad last year. Lugo should be an average shortstop offensively and he's supposed to be pretty good defensively, IIRC. Lowell at first, Marte/Youkilis at third? They might look to trade Lowell or Youkilis for a 1B . . .

Gwreck Dec 08 2005 01:04 PM

First half of that Renteria deal is complete, with Renteria to Atlanta for Andy Marte. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297

Nymr83 Dec 08 2005 01:19 PM

renteria is overpaidm good job by boston, i hope Marte turns out to be david wright now

rpackrat Dec 08 2005 02:02 PM

Desperation move by the Bravos. This is shaping up as the year the Braves finally collapse.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 08 2005 02:09 PM

="rpackrat"]Desperation move by the Bravos. This is shaping up as the year the Braves finally collapse. Heard that before.

Valadius Dec 08 2005 02:09 PM

Far too often. But one can hope.

Valadius Dec 08 2005 02:31 PM

In other news: Jose Mesa signed with the Rockies. Tony Womack was traded to Cincy with cash for two minor leaguers.

DocTee Dec 08 2005 03:20 PM

Ray King to Colorado for Larry Bigbie. In the rarefied air of Coors Field, how long till opponents are raking Ray King? (sorry)

smg58 Dec 08 2005 09:04 PM

Not sure what the Reds need Womack for. Those two prospects better not have any value.

metirish Dec 08 2005 09:08 PM

I should stop digging up old threads about trades.

Elster88 Dec 09 2005 09:59 AM

Tejada wants out I'm guessing no one is going to like this idea, but I'd give up Reyes and a superfluous pitcher in a heartbeat for Tejada. Hell, depending on who else they want I'd consider moving Milledge.

Edgy DC Dec 09 2005 10:00 AM

Your buddy Nymr already pitched it.

Elster88 Dec 09 2005 10:01 AM

Where? I should RMPL. Nymr and I are more like Internet Acquaintances than buddies. On edit: wow, a full day late on this one. This is why everything should be kept in one thread.

GYC Dec 10 2005 11:59 AM Cairo still going to be in NY

Cairo still going to be in NY http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/59339.htm ] CAIRO MAY BE BACK IN BRONX By MARK HALE and GEORGE KING Email Archives Print Reprint December 10, 2005 -- For the second straight offseason, Miguel Cairo appears as if he will be joining a different team in the same city. Cairo, the free-agent veteran who played this past year with the Mets and played in 2004 with the Yankees, looks to be headed back to The Bronx. The Yankees are getting close on a one-year deal with the infielder. The 31-year-old Cairo would be a backup infielder for the Yankees. Cairo had one of his best seasons with the Yankees two years ago after coming over from the Cardinals. In 2004, he played 122 games with the Yanks, batting .292 with six homers, 42 RBIs, 11 steals and a .346 on-base percentage in 360 at-bats. This past year with the Mets, though, Cairo struggled. He batted only .251 in 100 games with two homers, 19 RBIs and a .296 OBP in 327 at-bats. Cairo did tally 13 steals. Cairo can be a versatile player. He played five different positions with the Mets last year. He spent 82 games at second base but also played eight at first, three at third, two in left field and one in right. The Yankees are believed to be interested in free agent Eduardo Perez, who hit .255 with 11 homers and a .368 OBP in just 161 at-bats with Tampa Bay this past year. The 36-year-old Perez, a right-handed hitter who played mostly first base in 2005, hit 10 of those homers in 137 at-bats against lefties. He also clobbered the Yankees this past year, going deep four times in 17 at-bats. He just doesn't go away.

smg58 Dec 10 2005 12:11 PM

The Yankees' loss is our gain.

sharpie Dec 12 2005 03:14 PM

Phils trade Vicente Padilla to Texas for a PTBN.

MFS62 Dec 12 2005 03:26 PM

Vicente will be happy to know that they're moving the fences back in Philly just in time for him to leave for another band box. But for a PTBNL? He was a regular starter. That would have to be a pretty good player. The draft is over and the rosters prettywell secure. Why the wait? Hmmmm, could be it will be a player they will be receiving in a soon-to-be- announced deal. Later

Valadius Dec 12 2005 06:44 PM

Kenny Rogers signed with Detroit for 2 years, $16 million. I don't know why anybody would take such a temperamental guy.

Valadius Dec 12 2005 07:47 PM

Ricardo Rincon has signed with the Cardinals for two years for $2.9 million. Also, Damion Easley has signed a 1-year, $700,000 contract with Arizona.

Valadius Dec 12 2005 08:27 PM

Devil Rays obtain right to negotiate with Japanese pitcher ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- Shopping for bullpen help, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays obtained the right to negotiate with Japanese League All-Star reliever Shinji Mori of the Seibu Lions. The Devil Rays said Monday that they have until Jan. 11 to sign the 31-year-old right-hander to a contract. Mori, a Pacific League All-Star three of the past four years, is 44-44 with a 3.39 ERA in nine seasons with Seibu. He became a full-time reliever in 2000 and was 2-2 with a 4.22 ERA in 48 appearances last season.

smg58 Dec 12 2005 11:05 PM

Valadius wrote: Kenny Rogers signed with Detroit for 2 years, $16 million. I don't know why anybody would take such a temperamental guy. Because there isn't nearly enough pitching to go around. It could pay off if he keeps his head in check. And comes within a foot of the strike zone when the season absolutely depends on it. (Not that I harbor lasting grudges or anything...)

MFS62 Dec 13 2005 11:00 AM

Redarding the Padilla for a PTBNL trade: And from the outgoing president of the BBWA, from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram - TR Sullivan ] The Texas Rangers acquired right-handed pitcher Vicente Padilla on Monday from the Philadelphia Phillies for a player to be named later. One of the players on the list for the Phillies to choose from is right-handed pitcher Ricardo Rodriquez. He was 2-3 with a 5.53 ERA for the Rangers last season. Imagine, being traded for Ricky Ricardo. Later

Rotblatt Dec 13 2005 11:08 AM

That's a great trade by Texas. They have a new GM now, right? He seems to be doing a pretty good job.

Valadius Dec 13 2005 12:39 PM

Washington has signed utilityman Robert Fick and pitcher Joey "Frankenstein" Eischen to one-year deals and signed catchers Mike DiFelice, Alberto Castillo, Wiki Gonzalez and Brandon Harper to minor league deals. Also, the Soriano trade has been made official.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2005 12:51 PM

Get back to work on your papers Get through your papers, then you can goof off over break. Get thorugh college then you can goof off at work.

Valadius Dec 13 2005 03:39 PM

Royals pursuing Mientkiewicz By DOUG TUCKER, AP Sports Writer December 13, 2005 KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- The Kansas City Royals are attempting to sign Doug Mientkiewicz, the Gold Glove first baseman best known for taking the ball from the final out of Boston's World Series win in 2004. "We definitely have an interest and we are pursuing it," Kansas City general manager Allard Baird said Tuesday. "I do not get the feeling that anything is imminent." Mientkiewicz, who turns 31 in June, is a career .268 hitter with 55 home runs and 305 RBIs. A good contact hitter and a top defensive first baseman, he has only 25 errors in 6,377 chances. He spent last year with the New York Mets. Slowed by a hamstring injury, he hit .240 with 11 homers and 29 RBIs in 275 at-bats. His best year was 2001 with Minnesota, when he hit .306 with 15 homers and 74 RBIs and won a Gold Glove. In 2003, he hit .300 with 11 home runs and 65 RBIs. Mientkiewicz would bring stability to one of the many positions where the Royals were lacking in consistency last season while losing a franchise-record 106 games. He could also provide better defense at first than the Royals have had for many seasons. All-Star Mike Sweeney, one of several players the Royals put at first base last year, would not become a fulltime designated hitter. "Mike would still get time in the field. We are not thinking of doing anything else," Baird said. The Red Sox filed suit last month, asking a judge to let the team keep the infamous ball, whose ownership has been in dispute since pitcher Keith Foulke flipped it to Mientkiewicz for the out that gave Boston its first World Series since 1918. After he was traded to the New York Mets in January, he loaned the ball to the Red Sox for one year. He would get it back "unless the ultimate issue of ownership has been otherwise resolved," the agreement said. "The Red Sox continue to assert that their former employee, Mientkiewicz, obtained the baseball through the course of his employment, that he acquired no ownership interest and that the Red Sox are the rightful owners of the baseball," the team stated in its suit. The Royals are have a preliminary agreement on a $700,000, one-year contract with free-agent catcher Paul Bako, a career .239 hitter who would be a backup to John Buck. He played 13 games with the Los Angeles Dodgers last year and underwent surgery on June 24 to repair his anterior cruciate ligament. "I'd still like to find a starter and improve the outfield situation as well," Baird said.

Elster88 Dec 13 2005 03:47 PM

Enjoy!

Valadius Dec 13 2005 06:21 PM

A's Get Milton Bradley http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-athletics-dodgerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

smg58 Dec 13 2005 08:53 PM

An interesting deal, two major leaguers for one prospect, and not necessarily an elite one either. LA's got a long way to go to patch up their lineup. Perez was probably their best third base option for this year, too, and there's still no guarantee they'll get Meuller. As for Bradley, who knows maybe he'll get tired of wearing out his welcome everywhere he goes. Or maybe not.

abogdan Dec 14 2005 09:38 AM

I don't get that Dodgers/A's deal at all, unless they were really that desparate to get rid of Bradley. WFAN was reporting it incorrectly all day yesterday, as Bradley for Perez/prospect, they probably couldn't believe it either. The biggest surprise is how much money the A's are taking on this offseason. $7 million for Loaiza, at least $5 million for Bradley in arbitration, and rumored to be going after one of Piazza/Thomas.

smg58 Dec 14 2005 09:48 AM

The latest report says they're signing Thomas. Apparently the league as a whole is doing very well right now, which makes what Loria has done with the Marlins that much harder to defend.

GYC Dec 14 2005 11:16 AM

If you don't want to read RUMORS with unnamed sources, don't read the following: ]11:08 AM EST- Buzz: Mets, Marlins, Rays 3-Way for RHP Baez posted by Matthew Cerrone �our buddy, jake, at draysbay.com, an excellent tampa bay devil rays blog, e-mailed to tell me that a rumor has been floating around on the local tampa sports radio station about a deal in the works between the mets, rays and marlins in which the mets would land RHP Danys Baez, the rays would get LHP Scott Olsen and SS Kaz Matsui, and the marlins would get OF Joey Gathright, among other swaps� �how awkward would it be if the mets were to send RHP Victor Zambrano back to tampa bay� �the thing is, something seems off with this deal�it doesn�t shake out right� �either way, from what i can gather, there is definitely a new buzz coming from shea about baez�the mets want him badly�it sounds like the team is concerned about LHP Billy Wagner�s durability�so, the thinking seems to be, that having baez and RHP Aaron Heilman, together, as set-up men would help ease the load on wagner� �now, if the mets can some how get matsui to tampa bay, even with a suit-case full of money, i�d be impressed�and if baez comes in return, with heilman staying, i�d be even more impressed� Subsequently, in the St. Petersberg Times, Marc Topkin writes that �the Devil Rays have held advanced talks with the Marlins, Dodgers and an unidentified team and could be on the verge of a trade,� for Gathright� No place in Topkin�s report does he mention the Mets, however�. http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_archives/2005/12/14/1449426.html

Vic Sage Dec 14 2005 11:37 AM

i wouldn't mind having Baez, and I certainly wouldn't miss Matsui, but its just absurd to think such a 1-sided deal could ever happen.

Elster88 Dec 14 2005 11:57 AM

I think I'll put out a press release: An unnamed CPF insider stated that it was "absurd" to believe that a one sided trade such as the proposed three way deal between the Mets, Marlins, and Devil Rays would happen. Which is more believable? This or the article two posts above? Common sense tends to trump unnamed sources.

Valadius Dec 14 2005 01:16 PM

Bill Mueller has signed with the Dodgers.

abogdan Dec 14 2005 02:27 PM

Kaz Matsui for Danys Baez? That's a WATP if I've ever heard one.

Valadius Dec 19 2005 01:42 PM

Danny Graves has signed with Cleveland, as has Steve Karsay.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 08 2006 10:00 AM

Murray Chass throws a high hard one: ]Keep It Real If Manny Ramirez indeed has changed his mind about wanting to be traded by the Red Sox, he will pull the plug on a journalistic cottage industry that has mushroomed the past couple of months, with its operators breathlessly playing general manager and relentlessly creating multiple-team trades that have strayed far beyond the imaginations of actual general managers. That's probably why general managers are general managers, and reporters are reporters.

Mark Healey Jan 09 2006 10:50 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Murray Chass throws a high hard one: ]Keep It Real If Manny Ramirez indeed has changed his mind about wanting to be traded by the Red Sox, he will pull the plug on a journalistic cottage industry that has mushroomed the past couple of months, with its operators breathlessly playing general manager and relentlessly creating multiple-team trades that have strayed far beyond the imaginations of actual general managers. That's probably why general managers are general managers, and reporters are reporters. Murray is apparently still sorer about that line drive I hit off his knee in the NY Press League a couple of summers ago... :-)

[Guest abogdan]

Daily News sez Delgado could be a Met by tomorrow.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Due to a craptastic archiving error, I inadvertantly split the last 14 posts into a new thead. Sorry about that. Here they are:

Elster88
118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 4662
Location: Connecticut
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:

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Matsui is going to hit .315 next year with 48 doubles. Mark it down.
_____________________________
AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

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smg58
470) Bill Latham SP, RP, 1985


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 311

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:20 am Post subject:

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But what if he doesn't spend the whole year in Norfolk?

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abogdan494) Bill Short RP, 1968


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 74

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:48 am Post subject:

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Omar isn't done. Latest rumor in the Post: Benson and Bannister for Vazquez.

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Yancy Street Gang
32) Todd Hundley C, OF, 1990-1998


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 6990
Location: The Baxter Building
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:51 am Post subject:

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This hasn't been a typical offseason so far, and I guess the Marlins have a lot to do with it.

Usually the trades don't start happening until after the prominent free agents have signed. But the Mets have already made a deal with San Diego, and the Marlins now look like they've made two big ones.

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metirish
122) Frank Thomas OF, 1B, 3B,1962-1964


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 4590
Location: NY
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:01 am Post subject:

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I'd hate to see Anna Benson traded to Arizona, and especially for Vazquez, he's owed a lot of freaking money the next few years..

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Edgy DC
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 4916
Location: DC
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:11 am Post subject:

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Minaya needs to take a time out.
_________________
K

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Valadius
371) Darrin Jackson OF, 1993


Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Washington, DC
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject:

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Finish up with Nightcrawler first, Omar, please.
_________________
"Buy the ticket, take the ride" -- Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Creator of "Jake-Monster"

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seawolf17
171) Mo Vaughn 1B, 2002-2003


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3617
Location: LI
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

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Hey, as long as Valadius gets one nickname out of this off-season, he's a happy man.

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Rotblatt
227) Tim Harkness 1B, 1963-1964


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 2747
Location: Brooklyn
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

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Vazquez is still being subsidized by the Yankees, so he's actually not that expensive.

I'll see if I can find out how much they're paying him then post it here . . .

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Elster88
118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 4662
Location: Connecticut
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject:

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I would LOVE to have an effective player on the Mets and have part of the bill sent to the Bronx.
_____________________________
AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

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sharpie
206) Roger Mason RP, 1994


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 2952

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:

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'Course if we get Vazquez it would wreck our "no-former-Yankees" quest.

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Elster88
118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 4662
Location: Connecticut
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject:

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sharpie wrote:
'Course if we get Vazquez it would wreck our "no-former-Yankees" quest.


It would be beautiful for us to get a guy who was traded for an old man with a bad back and have him pitch lights out. It would also knock out some of those people who are all about the pressure of New York.
_____________________________
THE LAST ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST (until I reach 11,000). Until then, O greatest shortstop of all time.

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Rotblatt
227) Tim Harkness 1B, 1963-1964


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 2747
Location: Brooklyn
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject:

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Okay, so it looks like Vazquez is owed $23M over the next two years, BUT the Yankees are paying $6M of it. So basically, he'd be getting $8.5M per year. Benson is getting $7.5M per year and has $7.5M option for 2008 with a $.5M buyout.

Vazquez is two years younger. Neither have been particularly good lately but Vazquez would seem to have a much higher ceiling, having posted ERA+s of 135 & 154. Benson has never broke 120. Vazquez is much more of a strikeout pitcher and has better control. The only real advantage that Benson has is HR/9--0.98 to 1.22--and Vazquez should be able to get away with being a fly ball pitcher at Shea.

Vazquez has also been far more durable than Benson.

If we can get Vazquez for Benson & Bannister, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

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Elster88
118) Wally Whitehurst RP, SP,1989-1992


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 4662
Location: Connecticut
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject:

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Excellent analysis, Rotty. I was thinking this but it's much easier to let someone else do the heavy lifting.

Edit: Wally Whitehurst was NOT more valuable to this franchise than Kevin Elster.
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This post had the designation 118) Wally Whitehurst

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Nymr83
363) Dan Norman OF, 1977-1980


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 1386

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject:

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Elster88 wrote:
Matsui is going to hit .315 next year with 48 doubles. Mark it down.



Hideki Matsui maybe

[Centerfield]

Wow...great analysis Rotty.

[Willets Point]

Edgy DC wrote: Due to a craptastic archiving error, I inadvertantly split the last 14 posts into a new thead.

You're a craptastic archivist. You better prepare yourself for an ink bath when Squiddy learns you've been messing around on his turf!

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland.

[seawolf17]

="Johnny Dickshot"]Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland.

Kelly Rowland?

That's a helluva deal for the Phils. I didn't know the White Sox had her rights.

[metirish]

Super deal for us, with the Yanks looking/needing a center fielder that's one more gone...I assume you mean Rowan..yes?

[Valadius]

You mean Aaron Rowand?

[MFS62]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Buster Olney on the radio reporting the Phils close to sending Thome to the White Sox for Rowland.

Now I understand why my friend the Chisox fan told me they had interest in acquiring Juan Pierre. I couldn't see how they could have both Rowand AND Pierre in the same lineup.
The GO-GO Sox were so forty-five years ago.

Later

[Guest abogdan]

White Sox could move Podsdnik to center, they also have prospect Brian Anderson waiting in the wings.

They could still sign Konerko to play 1B and have Thome DH.

[Guest abogdan]

Oh yeah, great deal for the Phils. Thome was ridiculously overpaid and they had no place for him to play with Howard at 1B. That they got someone they could plug into their lineup, let alone a top CF just entering his prime, is amazing.

[Guest Rotblatt]

So apparently, we're no longer considering Soriano. Good. We're also no longer considering Manny unless his price drops (I'm assuming in prospects) and/or we clear out some salary. Good.

I'm pretty happy about our offseason so far.

According to the Daily News, the D-Backs are the ones who proposed the Vazquez for Benson & Bannister trade.

If that's true, I seriously hope we're talking to the D-Backs. Maybe we can get them to take someone other than Bannister or maybe if they're high on Bannister, we can swap Zambrano for Benson.

[smg58]

Javy's last two years weren't that good, and the fact that he was already chased out of New York once, and that a second team wants to get rid of him after one year, is really discouraging. Although Benson hasn't pitched to his promise either. I don't see much separating the two, honestly. If they can be persuaded to part with Chad Tracy or one of their young outfielders like Carlos Quentin or Conor Jackson, I'd be willing to trade Trachsel and Bannister and take on the extra money. Otherwise it's like trading Bannister for nothing.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Vazquez wasn't chased out of New York, and Arizona, by all reports, doesn't want to get rid of him.

That said, I see Benson as comparable right now, but it's hard to forget that Vazquez at his best was in a stratosphere Benson has never sniffed.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Vazquez must have been awfully frustrating for MFY fans. He'd pitch lights out for a few innings, then KABOOM. Seemed like he'd give up a 3-run homer in every start he made.

Pitchers who consistently cough up the longball make me nervous.

[nymr83]

i'll take Vazquez over Benson and Bannister isn't good enough that he should stop you from making a deal. Vazquez has more upside and i believe a better strikeout rate (which is good when the infield D isn't looking so good) his love of fly balls won't hurt him at Shea where that monstrous wind seems to kill everything in the air for 2/3 of the season.

[Valadius]

If we're building for the future, though, we should keep in mind that a new ballpark is on its way.

[nymr83]

i'm not really willing to look that far into the future when it comes to building a team, if it was opening in 2007 maybe i'd take it into account foir 2006, but considering that it won't be for several years after that its pretty much irrelevant right now.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Phillies look to replace Wagner with Tom Gordon

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2239894

]The Phillies have stepped up their efforts to sign Gordon in recent days, according to two sources who have spoken with them. What is still unclear is whether they are willing to give Gordon the three-year contract he is looking for at age 38.

Also

]And since the Phillies need to add setup men in addition to a closer, that would free up money to reel in both. And the Phillies are also actively chasing setup men. They would have been interested in Gordon regardless of whether they signed Wagner. And they made a run at Bobby Howry before he agreed to a three-year, $13-million deal with the Cubs. They're now believed to be honing in on deals with Wagner's predecessor with the Mets, Braden Looper, and former Brewers right-hander Rafael Santana -- both of whom would be used to set up.

I'd love to see Philly suffer Looper Cardiac Syndrome

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Rafael Santana?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Guess he means Julio.

Jayson crashes on autopilot.