Gather the wood. . .time to fire up the Stove!!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Rotblatt wrote: Regarding Delgado, if he gets traded, he can apply for free agency after this year.

Does he have some special clause? Or does this refer to the standard right that players have if they're traded in the middle of a multi-year contract? (He can demand a trade but if he doesn't get it he can opt for free agency.)

Either way, few if any players would exercise this option. That's a lot of guaranteed money to risk.

[MFS62]

That standard clause allowing a player to opt for free agency if traded mid-contract bothers me.
What if the Mets give up the store for Manny, and at the end of next year, he decides he wants out? His volatile personality makes that a possibility.
So if they get him, I hope they don't give up too much for him.

LAter

[Frayed Knot]

It should be noted that I don't think anyone who's in that position has ever gone through with the threat.

- The reason that clause exists is because players signing a multi-year w/a team have a right to expect that there's some sort of committment from that team. Being dealt soon afterward after often moving across the country and setting up shop for the supposed long term is not an easy thing no matter how much money you're making. What players really want of course is blanket no-trade protection - which is possible if they can negotiate it - but this was a compromise reached which gets them half way there.

- Problem is, the ones who do get dealt in the midst of a multi-year are in that position because they're most likely underachieving their deal. So they can then demand a trade all they want but most times the club will simply call their bluff until the player recinds the demand when he realizes that his underachievment means that he'll never get a new deal that'll match the back half of his current one.
Cecil Fielder was the best example of this. He was dealt to the Yanx w/a year and change left on the deal he signed after reaching the then shocking 50-HR mark. The Yanx basically laughed at him when he demanded a deal and would have been thrilled if he went through with his threat to cancel the last year of the deal and go FA.

[metirish]

Delgado also has a clause in his contract that if traded to NY his salary would increase by $1 Million to cover taxes....

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

The same thing happened with Darryl Hamilton and the Mets.

[Frayed Knot]

IOW, neither Manny nor Delgado are likely to go through with a trade demand.

Manny's deal is one of those signed during the dot-com boom so he's not getting another that'll match what he's already promised, and Delgado, because his is backloaded, won't get a better one either.

[Guest sharpie]

Javier Vazquez "respectfully" demanding a trade to an East Coast team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2220374

[Guest abogdan]

No way I'd touch Delgado. Why help one of your division rivals get rid of a contract they can't afford?

[nymr83]

because we CAN afford it and we could use the bat. i'd still prefer to pursue Konerko but if Delgado is tradeable i'd listen.

[Guest Rotblatt]

According to Newsday, we've contacted Konerko's agent.

Good.

]Mets contact Konerko The Mets contacted free agent Paul Konerko in a possible admission that Manny Ramirez, Carlos Delgado, Gary Sheffield and Adam Dunn will be difficult to acquire. Konerko received a four-year, $52-million offer from the White Sox but seeks five years.

From the same article, if we traded Cameron, we most likely wouldn't give Diaz the job.

]If the Mets trade Mike Cameron, there's worry about whether Victor Diaz has the work habits to fulfill his promise. One Mets person said, "If Diaz worked like Jose Reyes, he'd be another Manny Ramirez."

From the same article, Peterson doesn't like Heilman, which is why he's on the trading block.

]Aaron Heilman's surprising spot on the trading block is related to pitching coach Rick Peterson's lack of faith in him.

If there's any truth to this at all, then fuck Peterson. Maybe it's his fault, not Willie's, that Seo & Heilman were marginalized in favor of Ishii & Zambrano.

It just makes no sense to me at all that we'd actually put Heilman on the block.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]The Mets contacted free agent Paul Konerko in a possible admission that Manny Ramirez, Carlos Delgado, Gary Sheffield and Adam Dunn will be difficult to acquire.

That's a silly spin. I think they'd be trying to pursue Konerko on his own merits.

]Konerko received a four-year, $52-million offer from the White Sox but seeks five years.

He's got four years at $13-mills-per, then I'd say he looks difficult to acquire also.

]From the same article, if we traded Cameron, we most likely wouldn't give Diaz the job.

Seems obvious.

]If the Mets trade Mike Cameron, there's worry about whether Victor Diaz has the work habits to fulfill his promise. One Mets person said, "If Diaz worked like Jose Reyes, he'd be another Manny Ramirez."

Anonymous quotes. What if he works like Manny Ramirez?

]Aaron Heilman's surprising spot on the trading block is related to pitching coach Rick Peterson's lack of faith in him.

Is there even an anonymous quote on this one?

]If there's any truth to this at all, then fuck Peterson. Maybe it's his fault, not Willie's, that Seo & Heilman were marginalized in favor of Ishii & Zambrano.

I'd take it easy here. Seo and Heilman were not marginalized --- at least not in any active personal sense. The Mets did what teams do, try and get the most out of the guys they're paying the most to.

]It just makes no sense to me at all that we'd actually put Heilman on the block.

"The block" is an ambiguous term that doesn't have to be read pejoratively. If he's available (and most players are), it's because the Mets have a surfeit in an area other teams have a deficit. He also perhaps has more value for poorer teams than for richer ones.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Edgy DC wrote: ]Aaron Heilman's surprising spot on the trading block is related to pitching coach Rick Peterson's lack of faith in him. Is there even an anonymous quote on this one?

No. No idea where they got this from. I'm assuming someone said something along those lines but didn't want to be quoted, even anonymously.

]I'd take it easy here. Seo and Heilman were not marginalized --- at least not in any active personal sense. The Mets did what teams do, try and get the most out of the guys they're paying the most to.

I'm not sure what you mean by"active personal sense" but what I meant was that they were underutilized--foolishly, IMO. Now, I blamed Willie for that--and pretty harshly--most of the season, but if the idea floated by this "journalist" is at all valid, then maybe Peterson was behing the decisions to relegate Heilman to the back end of the bullpen most of the season and keep Seo in AAA.

]"The block" is an ambiguous term that doesn't have to be read pejoratively. If he's available (and most players are), it's because the Mets have a surfeit in an area other teams have a deficit. He also perhaps has more value for poorer teams than for richer ones.

I think it's clear that this writer meant that we were actively shopping Heilman. This is a Bad Idea, IMO, unless one thinks Heilman was a fluke last season--which it's starting to look like our Front Office does.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Not only is "on the block" interpreted poorly, but I don't see why the papers or the fans need to interpret the Peterson-Hielman dynamic (if there even is one) as "Peterson doesn't like Heilman," or even "Peterson doesn't like Heilman so he's punishing him," as if that's how decisions were made in the org.

If there�s an issue, its prolly over what RP�s data on mechanics tell him. That might explain the earlier attempt to alter the style, which misleadingly is described as �a lack of faith,� in the newspapers and then is fused to the idea that Heilman is desirable to other teams, without regard to cause-and-effect.

As an aside, fans are strange over the whole �alter the pitching style� question. Seems as if the same ones incredulously pointing a finger at Peterson for doing with Heilman have little conflict actively advocating that certain hitters ought to change their approach.

[Guest Edgy DC]

By "active personal sense" (I agree that this is poorly phrased), I mean that any marginalization that occurred is likely not the result of a personal or professional animus toward Seo and Heilman from Randolph or Peterson, but merely teams doing what teams do. Virtually all teams stick with their high-priced guys for too long. It's business.

We can disagree with that sort of business (I do), but I need a lot more evidence before I go looking for a soap opera to explain something that's pretty common.

Back to Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[Guest Rotblatt]

]as "Peterson doesn't like Heilman," or even "Peterson doesn't like Heilman so he's punishing him," as if that's how decisions were made in the org.

Just to be clear, when I say "doesn't like him," I mean "doesn't think he's a good player."

I thought that was kind of obvious, but maybe I should be more precise . . .

on edit: and clearly, it isn't obvious, since Edgy thought I meant there was a personal problem between Heilman & Peterson too. But really, I just think that for some reason--perhaps mechanics, like JD said, or something else--Peterson doesn't think Heilman will continue to be successful next year.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think if the Mets organization was as committed to Heilman in 2005 as they were to Zambrano, Rick Peterson would have also been (which isn't to say that he wasn't or isn't).

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Anyway, I don;t mean to come off a huge Peterson supporter but from what we know about him I'd suspect he bases a lot of his decisions on what the numbers tell him and that may not be limited to K-BB over a certain stretch or what have you. But if it's something, it's something.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Anyway, I don;t mean to come off a huge Peterson supporter but from what we know about him I'd suspect he bases a lot of his decisions on what the numbers tell him and that may not be limited to K-BB over a certain stretch or what have you. But if it's something, it's something.

[Guest GYC]

http://rotoworld.com/includes/topblurbs.asp?sport=MLB

Report: Cubs close to acquiring Pierre
Juan Pierre - OF - FLA - Nov. 14 - 7:27 pm et

ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers.
No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable. Nov. 14 - 7:27 pm et


Hmmm... Interesting. I also read on a Mets site that it looks like the Cubs are expected to land Furcal soon, too.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

GYC wrote: http://rotoworld.com/includes/topblurbs.asp?sport=MLB Report: Cubs close to acquiring Pierre Juan Pierre - OF - FLA - Nov. 14 - 7:27 pm et ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers. No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable. Nov. 14 - 7:27 pm et Hmmm... Interesting. I also read on a Mets site that it looks like the Cubs are expected to land Furcal soon, too.

Now we get their GM drunk, swap Cameron for Miggy Cabrera, and sneak off into the night.

[smg58]

They might soberly take Cameron for Delgado. Or Cameron and Trachsel, which would still save them money. If their rookies perform well and Lowell rebounds (I'm assuming they'll have to play him on account of him being impossible to deal), they'll be in better shape than people realize. Then again, the Marlins wouldn't be the first team that MLB allowed Jeffrey Loria to systematically dismantle...

[Valadius]

Jojima Visits With M's, But No Deal Yet

SEATTLE -- The agent for Japanese all-star catcher Kenji Jojima said Tuesday his client is not close to signing with the Seattle Mariners, one day after Jojima left Seattle following a weekend stay.

"The visit went well," agent Alan Nero said Tuesday morning via telephone from his Chicago-area office. "But I don't believe we are close to an agreement.

"The Mariners were incredibly hospitable. But we are still in the middle of this process. He's only visited one team. He's only been to Seattle."

The New York Mets and the San Diego Padres reportedly are also interested in Jojima, 29. The Mets are expecting to lose veteran catcher Mike Piazza to free agency this offseason. The Padres' catcher, Ramon Hernandez, is also a free agent.

Jojima, an all-star for the Fukoka Softbank Hawks, officially became a major-league baseball free agent Nov. 8. He turned down a reported three years and $22 million to stay with Fukoka.

He would be the first Japanese catcher to play in the major leagues.

Jojima batted .309, hit 24 home runs and drove in 57 in 116 games last season before he broke his left leg. He has won a Gold Glove in each of his last seven seasons for his defensive prowess.

Jojima and Nero met with Mariners executives over last weekend. Jojima also toured the city to get a feel for how it would fit his family. Seattle, of course, is already home to All-Star and Gold Glove outfielder Ichiro Suzuki, Japan's most famous sports celebrity.

The Mariners currently have two catchers on their active roster: Former San Francisco Giants backup Yorvit Torrealba, a career .250 hitter over 262 games, and Rene Rivera, a veteran of 18 major-league games.

Nero declined to reveal how many teams Jojima will visit other than the Mariners.

Last weekend, a published report in Seattle said the Mariners and Jojima were about to sign a multiyear contract. Last week, Japanese newspaper Sports Nippon even went so far to report Seattle had prepared a Mariners jersey with Jojima's name and the number 2, his Fukoka number, on the back.

[metirish]

The Mets are set to meet Jojima on Friday.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets1116,0,2887202.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

[smg58]

The "broke his left leg" bit is a concern. Catchers don't get less fragile as they get older. That's why Hernandez would have to come cheap before I consider him.

[Valadius]

Here's how I view Jojima:

He's a great hitter in Japan. How that translates in America remains to be seen. However, he's a Gold Glove catcher. Defense remains constant no matter what level you're playing on. I'd rather have a Gold Glove catcher than a poor defensive catcher.

[metirish]

If that were true Val then what happened Kaz Matsui, he was supposed to be a great glove man in Japan.

on edit....I don't doubt that it should be true, you would think a great defensive player in Japan would be one over here too.

[Valadius]

Was he?

Maybe Matsui's an anomaly. I don't know. Look at Ichiro and his five Gold Gloves.

Edit: Ichiro's won five MLB Gold Gloves. I don't know what he did in Japan.

[metirish]

Well Kaz won 4 gold gloves , I think he might be the exception,Shinjo was the bomb with his glove...

[Valadius]

That little hop Shinjo did... I loved that!

[Guest sharpie]

Almost all of the fields in Japan are turf (including the one Kaz played homegames on). All of the NL fields are grass. That might account for the difference for him but not for an outfielder (or, presumably, a catcher). Don't know how ChiSox's Iguchi did here vs. Japan.