I Hate the Trade Deadline

[smg58]

And in the rumor mill, we have some papers reporting that the Soriano talks have heated up, and some papers reporting that they have cooled down. This time of year is better than Christmas.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Or worse than Super Bowl media week, depending on your perspective.

[metirish]

Cameron to Baltimore again...

]Don't be surprised if the Orioles take another run at Mets center fielder Mike Cameron this weekend, offering reliever Jorge Julio as the bait. Several rival clubs have a higher opinion of outfielder Larry Bigbie than the Orioles do. One executive thinks that Bigbie, a lefthanded hitter, could be a lesser version of Paul O'Neill.

http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/ken-rosenthal/20050727.html

[seawolf17]

Is it possible to get any lesser than Paul O'Neill? I think not.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Cammie got signed at the right time. HIs VoRP/$ is a good ratio.

Jorge Julio? C'mon! The Mets need Brian Roberts and somebody's suggesting they get Jorge Julio?

[metirish]

Yeah really, is it ever a fair trade when you trade a position player for a pitcher?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The thing is that just about every team in baseball could use at least a little more depth in their pen. You get it, and the more pressing problems are still hanging over you.

Anderson Hernandez could well crap out if called up, but he's probably ready defensively.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Today is July 28

Transactions:
New York Mets purchased Skip Lockwood from the Oakland Athletics on July 28, 1975.

New York Mets purchased Gil Flores from the California Angels on July 28, 1978.

New York Mets traded Bobby Bonilla and Jimmy Williams to the Baltimore Orioles for Alex Ochoa and Damon Buford on July 28, 1995.

New York Mets traded Melvin Mora, Mike Kinkade, Pat Gorman and Lesli Brea to the Baltimore Orioles for Mike Bordick on July 28, 2000.

New York Mets traded Paul Wilson and Jason Tyner to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Bubba Trammell and Rick White on July 28, 2000.

[seawolf17]

I liked Bubba Trammell. I remember seeing him as a Durham Bull when he was coming up through the D-Rays' system. He was a big dude; I thought he had the potential to be at least a solid fourth-outfielder type for a while, but he just vanished.

[MFS62]

Alex Ochoa was Gil Floores with a little more power. IIRC, Flores averaged about 1-2 homers per year for his career.

Later

[Guest Rotblatt]

BP weighs in and decides that we should buy.

]Mets: The lower threshold for contention in the NL is reflected in a greater number of Buy ratings. The Mets have the star talent in place to win the East or snag the wild card; they have to do a better job of filling their holes on the right side of the infield, spots that are usually among the easier ones for finding talent. Trading both Lastings Milledge and Yusmeiro Petit would be a bit much, given the caliber of players on the market, but swapping one of them may be necessary. Upgrading first base or second base by two wins over two months could well be the difference between October baseball and October golf. Buy.

I think we should upgrade using internal options rather than sow salt on our already razed farmland.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Agreeing here.

But what are you suggesting doing specifically?

Add Valent, Diaz, and Anderson Hernandez, I guess, and remove whom? The best way seems to be trying to send Graves and Williams to Norfolk until September and maybe deal Cairo to a team who wants him as the role-player he was meant to be for us, and maybe is paying more atteniton to his 2004 performance than this year's.

[Guest KC]

Soriano and Casey for money, a pitcher everyone bitches about, and a
pitching prospect isn't the least bit interesting??? I read this all fast but,
you have to at least be intrigued.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Edgy DC wrote: Agreeing here. But what are you suggesting doing specifically? Add Valent, Diaz, and Anderson Hernandez, I guess, and remove whom? The best way seems to be trying to send Graves and Williams to Norfolk until September and maybe deal Cairo to a team who wants him as the role-player he was meant to be for us, and maybe is paying more atteniton to his 2004 performance than this year's.

Yeah, I keep getting stuck when I think about who we send down. We pretty much have to lose at least one of Anderson, Woody or Cairo. Williams is a given. I'd be fine leaving Diaz at AAA until September--that'll give us time to evaluate Valent at first and see if he's able to be the answer at 1B for us. Meanwhile, Diaz will get more time at 1B. As for 2B, I'm a bit torn between Lambin & Hernandez. Hernandez has been struggling recently and his OPS has dropped to .808, which isn't bad, but Lambin's at .881. Lambin was also drafted as a 2B, whereas Hernandez just started playing there this season, so I'd guess he's a little more polished than Hernandez.

Neither has spent much time above AA yet, though . . .

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm okay with dealing Cairo and promoting Hernandez.

Even if Hernandez doesn't work out, you still have Woodward.

[Vic Sage]

there is no way in hell that Petit and Heilman buys us Soriano, much less Soriano + Casey.

I don't love either of those guys but, that being said, if that deal is on the table, we should grab it. It'd make us a playoff team, with solid offensive production from every spot in the lineup and a solid starting rotation.

While Petit may be one of our best prospects, that doesn't make him a great prospect. I don't see him as a can't miss blue-chipper, and Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer, and is now a barely serviceable middle-inning guy. I'd much prefer Heilman to go than Zambrano.

It's a moot point, however, cuz i don't see any GM, even one with John Hart's itchy trigger finger, taking Petit + Heilman for Soriano.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]I don't love either of those guys but, that being said, if that deal is on the table, we should grab it. It'd make us a playoff team, with solid offensive production from every spot in the lineup and a solid starting rotation.

Really? Casey's a gurantee?

]While Petit may be one of our best prospects, that doesn't make him a great prospect. I don't see him as a can't miss blue-chipper...

Well, that's a subjective tag. Nobody's a can't miss, in the minors or the majors. But most sources will rank him around 40th in all of baseball. That's good.

]...and Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer, and is now a barely serviceable middle-inning guy.

He sure didn't blow his last one. And I think he's doing well and getting better. The Rocks' announcers said the batters who faced him were shaking their heads and wondering why he wans't starting.

]I'd much prefer Heilman to go than Zambrano.

Agreed, in a gun-to-my-head way.

]It's a moot point, however, cuz i don't see any GM, even one with John Hart's itchy trigger finger, taking Petit + Heilman for Soriano.

We'll sure see.

I'm getting jumpy. The closer to the deadline we get without dealing, the bigger the deal I fear.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I dunno. Seems like the closer we get to the deadline the cheaper Soriano gets if that truly is the apple of Omar's eye (in which case I wanna fire Dr. Joseph and his son, Dr. Jefferey Della Russo)

[metsmarathon]

hell, if sori's price is dropping, try sending just kaz over. or maybe both...

[Vic Sage]

hey, he wanted to deal Floyd for Sosa, so his eyesight is HIGHLY questionable.

I'm really not advocating a deal for Soriano, because i don't believe that rumor has any validity.

but i'm just not sold on Heilman or Petit. There are guys our there (like Dunn) i'd gladly part with them for. Milledge is another matter.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Vic Sage wrote: Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer.

Willie Randolph: "Aaron, sit down. I need to be frank with you."

Aaron Heilman: "Uh, yeah, sure."

WR: "Aaron, you stink."

AH: "Gosh, do you need to be quite that frank?"

WR: "You're not getting the job done. I'm dropping you from the rotation."

AH: "Really? But just a few starts ago I pitched a one-hitter, and Glavine's got an ERA like the number on a airplane, and basically no one outside of Pedro's pitching very well..."

WR: "Let me decide who's pitching well and who isn't, okay, son? It's my personal judgment, based on my 43 games of managing on any level and sitting next to Mel Stottlemyre for years, that you're bullpen material."

AH: "That's kind of harsh, innit? So I'm what, a closer now? A set-up guy?"

WR: "You're middle relief. The slop guy. The blowout guy. Part of 'A Cast of Thousands.' Mr. Whathisname. Garbage time."

AH: "I get the picture. Willie, what the fuck did I do to deserve this?"

WR: "Watch your language."

AH: "I can't say 'Fuck'?"

WR: "Fuck yeah, you can say 'Fuck.' You can't say 'deserve.' I never want to hear that kind of filthy language again. Does Glavine deserve to have a job? Does Piazza deserve to bat cleanup? Does Victor Diaz deserve to be sent to triple A after a month of hitting the liviing piss out of the ball? Do I deserve this job? We just don't think in terms of 'deserve' around here, son, and the sooner you get that, the better you'll fit on this team."

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Pretty funny. At the risk of starting a war here, I thought you were of the mind that reliving on the big league level was a good way to break young guys in.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Reliving what? Your youth? Heilman's youth is rapidly passing him by.

Yeah, I don't object to long-relief as a training regime, but you don't normally trade someone you're grooming to be a starter when he's in the middle relief-stage, on account of his stock is at its lowest but you secretly know him to be more valuable than just a long-reliever. Mainly I was objecting to Vic's characterization of Heilman's failure in a starting role.

Try starting a war again.

[Willets Point]

Bring up Yusmeiro Petit now!!!

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I don't think they're going to trade Heilman. How about that?!?

[Guest Rotblatt]

Am I the only one who'd rather have Heilman instead of Zambrano? He's over 3 years younger, is cheaper, has better control and strikes out more batters than Zambrano. And he seems to have finally turned a corner this year.

I mean, Zambrano's been effective for us this year, but I STILL don't think it's sustainable.

[Guest martin]

my copy of baseball prospectus 2005 has petit ranked at #15 for prospects, right behind kazmir, who i realize is no longer a prospect. the paragraph about him basically says his insane control and strikeout ratio is impossibnle to ignore.

milledge is ranked 19. isnt he a cf defensive talent? i figure since he is stuck behind beltran for eternity, trading him would not be a bad idea. i think milledge and heilman for soriano would be great. although that leaves matsui in a pinch, and i still think he will turn it around. but i am overly optimistic.

[Elster88]

Rotblatt wrote: Am I the only one who'd rather have Heilman instead of Zambrano? He's over 3 years younger, is cheaper, has better control and strikes out more batters than Zambrano. And he seems to have finally turned a corner this year. I mean, Zambrano's been effective for us this year, but I STILL don't think it's sustainable.

I dunno. I wonder if Heilman really has turned a corner. How many total starts does he even have? He's been fairly mediocre overall, no?

[smg58]

I can't help feeling that Soriano's the kind of guy we'll wish we didn't have in November, and there's a very steep limit to what I'd deal for somebody like that. The same holds for Casey. Are these guys building blocks, or obstacles?

The important detail of the Sosa-for-Floyd deal was that it DIDN'T happen. I've got no problem with Minaya pondering all sorts of deals if he doesn't pull the trigger on bad ones. I'm hoping for something like that here.

I'm not against dealing top prospects for top players, I just don't see Soriano being a top player in Shea Stadium.

As for Heilman or Zambrano... there may be room for both. I do think the Mets need to make room for either Heilman, Seo, or Bannister in next year's rotation, and deal the other two. If they can find a taker for Glavine this weekend, great, but we can buy him out in the offseason if he doesn't reach 200 innings.

[metirish]

I read today that the Reds probably won't be dealing any of the big players because they might have new ownership and the current guys feel that dealing Dunn, Casey or Griffey should be the new owners call.