The Mets Suck

[Centerfield]

OPS last 30 days.

Juan Soto .681

Francisco Lindor .654

Brandon Nimmo .671

Pete Alonso .636

Jeff McNeil .682

Brett Baty .718

Ronny Mauricio .723

Mark Vientos .742

Tyrone Taylor .400

The one exception is the guy that got sent down.

Francisco Alvarez .919

[ashie62]

That makes Vientos the valedictorian of Mets University

[Centerfield]

In this brutal stretch where they've lost 8 of 9 games:

*It's the fault of the offense: The offense has failed to score more than two runs 4 times, scoring 0, 1, 1, and 2 runs in 9 games. In one additional game, they tacked on 2 garbage time runs in the 9th to lose 12-4.

*It's the fault of the starting pitching: The starting pitching hasn't been great. In 5 of the last 9 games, starters have given up 4 runs or more (Montas, Holmes, Senga, Montas again, Peterson today).

Thankfully the bullpen has been ok. The bullpen lost us 2 games during this stretch and both of those guys aren't here anymore. Brazoban blew up the first game in San Diego, Butto blew up the second, but we only scored 1 run anyway, so it probably didn't make a difference.

You figure the starting pitching will get a little better. But who knows with this **** offense.

[Centerfield]

And speaking of this **** offense. We figured that the gap between their OPS and OPS with RISP would eventually close, but it hasn't gone the direction we wanted.

The Mets are 12th in overall OPS (.725), 15th in runs scored, and 17th in OPS with RISP.

As of May 22, the Mets were 9th in overall OPS, and 24th in OPS with RISP. So while their performance with RISP has gone up, their overall hitting has gone down. It's just a league average offense. Crazy to think that's possible given the talent on this roster.

[Frayed Knot]

And speaking of this **** offense. We figured that the gap between their OPS and OPS with RISP would eventually close, but it hasn't gone the direction we wanted.

The Mets are 12th in overall OPS (.725), 15th in runs scored, and 17th in OPS with RISP.

 

Yup. Instead of the OPS w/Runners coming up to match the overall OPS the overall OPS has slid towards the other. When I looked at this in late June

the Mets were 6th in OPS but 14th in RS. Now, six weeks later, the gap between those has closed but both are lower. Soto, who was the worst offender

at the time with an OPS a stunning 500 pts lower w/runners on, is now just a mere 350-400 pts lower: Empty = 1034; Men on = 650; RiSP = 690 so

I suppose that can be considered some progress even though his season OPS has dropped 100 pts since then.

Today's lone run came via his 26th HR, 20 of them are solo so 26 HRs nets just 32 RBIs. The other six had one runner on so his next 3R or GS as a NYM will be his first.

Edited August 7, 2025 by Frayed Knot

[Cowtipper]

So one must wonder why they're still trying to make something out of Vientos, Taylor et al. Vientos was nice last year. Taylor was nice last year. This is no longer last year.

[roger_that]

Streakiest team ever? I go from thinking "They're invincible" to "I never saw a more hopeless bunch of losers" every few weeks, and then back again, and again.

[Centerfield]

So one must wonder why they're still trying to make something out of Vientos, Taylor et al. Vientos was nice last year. Taylor was nice last year. This is no longer last year.

 

The Mullins trade suggests they’re out on Taylor.

With Vientos, I’m guessing they’re just hoping one of Vientos, Baty and Mauricio will get hot.

If it were me, I’d DH Vientos every day for August. He has the best track record. If he earns it, he keeps it. If he’s still ass at the end of august you back burner him.

[ashie62]

Baty Vientos Mauricio

I am so sick of watching them I wish they would just go away

I hoped Stearns would trade some of the redundancy at the the deadline but no

Very frustrating. The is year five for Steve Cohen and I'm sure he is also

[roger_that]

Baty Vientos Mauricio

I am so sick of watching them I wish they would just go away

I hoped Stearns would trade some of the redundancy at the the deadline but no

Very frustrating. The is year five for Steve Cohen and I'm sure he is also

 

Yeah!!!! And depending on how it works out, you get to decide if Stearns dealt the correct redundancy!!

Why not deal off all three? I'll tell you why. Because at least one of them is going to become a star and you might get very little in return for dealing off another Jeff Kent, who also sucked.

Edited August 7, 2025 by roger_that

[roger_that]

Collectively, this year so far they've got 24 HR, 76 RBI in 678 ABs. I think you can probably say fairly they will improve from here. That's not bad for a full season of one infielder.

Last year, they (Baty and Vientos combined, no Mauricio) had 31 HRs and 87 RBI in 566 ABs. Again, not too bad. Not exactly a useless slag heap.

[roger_that]

The odd part is that while they do indeed suck, the top of the order is a scarily productive bunch of hitters most any team would like to have and the bottom half of the order is full of young hitters most teams would agree are bound collectively to improve in the near future and which has been pretty productive for the past few weeks.

It's tough for me to look at any part of the Mets' offense and say I'd swap 'em out for a bag of balls--they're a mostly young group of good hitters who happen to be playing terribly right now. But I wouldn't bet a lot of money that they're going to suck starting this evening.

[Centerfield]

That's the most infuriating part of all this. It's not as if we have Eric Campbell or James Loney out there. How can a group that is this talented put up such middling results? It's almost incomprehensible that a team with Lindor, Soto, Alonso can be league average.

Obviously I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but this is too large a sample size to call it bad luck or a rough stretch. At the end of the day, either the message is wrong, or the messenger is ineffective at delivering it.

[roger_that]

this is too large a sample size to call it bad luck or a rough stretch.

 

I think you're too close to it or it means too much to you. "Bad luck' or "A rough stretch" is exactly what I'd call what's going on right now. When they're on a 7-game winning streak, they seem unbeatable.

[Cowtipper]

Baty Vientos Mauricio

I am so sick of watching them I wish they would just go away

I hoped Stearns would trade some of the redundancy at the the deadline but no

Very frustrating. The is year five for Steve Cohen and I'm sure he is also

 

Yeah!!!! And depending on how it works out, you get to decide if Stearns dealt the correct redundancy!!

Why not deal off all three? I'll tell you why. Because at least one of them is going to become a star and you might get very little in return for dealing off another Jeff Kent, who also sucked.

So you'd rather keep all three even as they bring down the Mets now just in case one at some point down the line becomes a star?

That logic is flawless and you are truly a genius.

[Gwreck]

That's the most infuriating part of all this. It's not as if we have Eric Campbell or James Loney out there. How can a group that is this talented put up such middling results? It's almost incomprehensible that a team with Lindor, Soto, Alonso can be league average.

 

The easy answer is that those three guys only have 35 percent of the plate appearances this year, and the Mets are giving an equal amount of plate appearances to players who don’t hit (Vientos, Baty, Taylor, Torrens, Acuna, plus Young/Senger/Siri, etc).

Lindor is quietly having a “down” year, by his standards at least. He’s got the lowest OPS in his Mets career since 2021.

As for the Mets production compared to the league, the positional splits are telling to me: they’re getting far below average production at 4 positions.

C: 24th

1B: 7th

2B: 21st

3B: 20th

SS: 13th

LF: 8th

CF: 29th

RF: 5th

DH: 12th

[Gwreck]

Very frustrating. The is year five for Steve Cohen and I'm sure he is also

 

There was an awful lot of winning in 2022 and 2024, and despite the recent swoon, they’re still in position to make the playoffs again in 2025. That would make 3 good-to-excellent seasons out of 5…not exactly bad.

[Centerfield]

Good info. Can you tell me where you got those numbers?

My thoughts.

C: 24th

This includes a lot of unproductive Luis Torrens. It's unlikely Alvarez will stay as hot as he is, but you figure we'll be better from here on out.

1B: 7th

Likely stay the same. Hopefully we won't fall off.

2B: 21st

You figure with McNeil getting more time there, this will go up for the last 2 months.

3B: 20th

Will likely stay the same.

SS: 13th

This is the big surprise. Hopefully the toe is healed and he gets hot for the last two months.

LF: 8th

Hopefully stays the same.

CF: 29th

Mullins isn't great, but he should be better than this.

RF: 5th

Will hopefully be better than he has been so far.

DH: 12th

This is a surprise. I didn't think we'd be this high. I'm not sure we'll do much better than this.

[roger_that]

Baty Vientos Mauricio

I am so sick of watching them I wish they would just go away

I hoped Stearns would trade some of the redundancy at the the deadline but no

Very frustrating. The is year five for Steve Cohen and I'm sure he is also

 

Yeah!!!! And depending on how it works out, you get to decide if Stearns dealt the correct redundancy!!

Why not deal off all three? I'll tell you why. Because at least one of them is going to become a star and you might get very little in return for dealing off another Jeff Kent, who also sucked.

So you'd rather keep all three even as they bring down the Mets now just in case one at some point down the line becomes a star?

That logic is flawless and you are truly a genius.

 

Well, thank you. Very kind of you to say that.

"at some point down the line" could start tonight. All of these young guys have great AAA credentials, pretty fair MLB stats so far, and none of them are killing us this year or last year. As I said elsewhere, you combine their numbers and collectively it looks like the power stats of one very good full-time young middle infielder-3Bman.

[Gwreck]

Good info. Can you tell me where you got those numbers?

 

https://www.mlb.com/stats/team

Sorted by OPS, and then used positional splits.

[metirish]

Those are scary numbers when presented like that

[The Hot Corner]

Collectively, this year so far they've got 24 HR, 76 RBI in 678 ABs. I think you can probably say fairly they will improve from here. That's not bad for a full season of one infielder.

Last year, they (Baty and Vientos combined, no Mauricio) had 31 HRs and 87 RBI in 566 ABs. Again, not too bad. Not exactly a useless slag heap.

 

The issue I have with this logic is that Vientos, Baty, and Mauricio are not manning a single position or a single spot in the line up. They generally are occupying 2 positions between 3rd, 2nd, & DH. On occasion they are occupying all three spots in the line up simultaneously. Vientos, Baty and Mauricio have combined to appear in 223 games, the Mets have only played 115. That is why they collectively have so many at bats (678) versus any single Mets player (Lindor 512, Alonso 497, and Soto 496). So I don't think it is accurate to simply add up their counting numbers, such as HR and RBI, and say that they collectively are producing. Since they often occupy numerous spots in the line up simultaneously, I believe it is far more accurate to look at rates of production ( i.e. HR & RBIs per at bats).

For simplicity, if we look at their combined rate of production over 500 at bats, their line is 18 HR & 56 RBIs. That's not too bad, if they were a platoon at one position, but they still are occupying 2 (and on occasions 3*) spots in the line up. That makes their production a little less impressive (at least to me).

I'm not saying they can't break out and be productive in the future. Vientos was solid last season and seems to be picking it up of late. Baty has been very streaky throughout his time in MLB, unfortunately the cold spells have traditionally been longer and/or more frequent than his hot streaks. Mauricio has tremendous power, but needs greater discipline/pitch recognition as a whole and he is horrendous from the right side. Hopefully he will improve with age and experience.

*This appears to be happening less now that McNeil no longer is manning CF.

[Frayed Knot]

Vientos put up an 837 OPS (136 OPS+) at age 24 across 454 PAs last year.

He's 200 points below that now (641/83) but the odds of his '24 season being an unrepeatable one-off are small.

Maybe his 'true' self winds up somewhere in between, but the guy was out-HR'ing Alonso last year on a per/AB basis.

That can't have been a mirage.

Soto is 80 OPS points behind his career mark and 120 behind last season. Lindor is ~60 & 100 down in the same two categories.

[roger_that]

The issue I have with this logic is that Vientos, Baty, and Mauricio are not manning a single position or a single spot in the line up. They generally are occupying 2 positions between 3rd, 2nd, & DH. On occasion they are occupying all three spots in the line up simultaneously. Vientos, Baty and Mauricio have combined to appear in 223 games, the Mets have only played 115. That is why they collectively have so many at bats (678) versus any single Mets player (Lindor 512, Alonso 497, and Soto 496). So I don't think it is accurate to simply add up their counting numbers, such as HR and RBI, and say that they collectively are producing. Since they often occupy numerous spots in the line up simultaneously, I believe it is far more accurate to look at rates of production ( i.e. HR & RBIs per at bats).

For simplicity, if we look at their combined rate of production over 500 at bats, their line is 18 HR & 56 RBIs. That's not too bad, if they were a platoon at one position, but they still are occupying 2 (and on occasions 3*) spots in the line up. That makes their production a little less impressive (at least to me).

 

 

The stats I presented (24 HR, 76 RBI in 678 ABs this season, 31 HRs and 87 RBI in 566 ABs last season) resemble full-season stats for one full-time regular. (Alonso and Lindor finished last season about halfway between those two figures, 608 and 618 ABs respectively). So I think it's a fair and easily understood way to look at how productive the three young infielders have been. To read the pissing and the moaning here about how these three horrible incompetents have been killing the Mets, you would never believe that these are in fact their full-season stats.

I'll bet if you told one of the pissers and moaners that the Mets could swap the three of them to get one player with those stats in his mid-20s who could play 2B, SS, and 3B and will almost certainly improve in the near future, he'd be ecstatic. "Do it, do it, do it!" he would exclaim. "But where are you finding a team dumb enough to lose those three clowns in exchange for such a star?"

[Lefty Specialist]

Vientos put up an 837 OPS (136 OPS+) at age 24 across 454 PAs last year.

He's 200 points below that now (641/83) but the odds of his '24 season being an unrepeatable one-off are small.

Maybe his 'true' self winds up somewhere in between, but the guy was out-HR'ing Alonso last year on a per/AB basis.

That can't have been a mirage.

 

It could be. Pitchers adjust to hitters, hitters need to adjust back. Vientos hasn't done that yet on a consistent basis. Same thing happened to Alvarez after his 25 HR's in '23.

[roger_that]

Very few players reach their career highs in their first year. Some do, I suppose, but the vast majority--maybe 90%? more?--surpass their rookie records consistently later on. You want to assume that Vientos will never hit more than 27 HRs again? Or Alvarez 25? Or even Baty at whatever number of HRs he's going to hit this year?

I'm going to assume the opposite, and the odds will back me up. Just take the batters who've ever hit 27 HRs or more in their rookie seasons and average out their lifetime HR totals and you'll be up around 400, I'd suppose. Or catchers who broke in with 25 or more. It's a short list but very impressive.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I asked Microsoft Copilot about this, and here's the response I got:

📊 Estimated Career Home Run Average (27+ Rookie HRs)

Using available data and extrapolating from known career totals:

Sample size: ~45 players

Combined career HRs: Estimated at 14,000–15,000

Average per player: ~315–335 career home runs

🧠 What This Tells Us

Players who hit 27+ HRs as rookies tend to be:

Long-term power contributors

Often All-Stars or MVP candidates

Sometimes Hall of Fame inductees (e.g., Frank Robinson, Mike Piazza)

Even accounting for a few outliers with shorter careers, the average remains impressively high—well above the MLB career average for position players.

Here’s the comprehensive list of MLB players who hit 27 or more home runs in their rookie season, based on historical records and compiled data:

💥 MLB Rookies with 27+ Home Runs in a Season

Player Year HRs Team

Pete Alonso 2019 53 New York Mets

Aaron Judge 2017 52 New York Yankees

Mark McGwire 1987 49 Oakland Athletics

Cody Bellinger 2017 39 Los Angeles Dodgers

Frank Robinson 1956 38 Cincinnati Reds

Wally Berger 1930 38 Boston Braves

Albert Pujols 2001 37 St. Louis Cardinals

Al Rosen 1950 37 Cleveland Indians

José Abreu 2014 36 Chicago White Sox

Mike Piazza 1993 35 Los Angeles Dodgers

Ryan Braun 2007 34 Milwaukee Brewers

Chris Young 2007 32 Arizona Diamondbacks

Rudy York 1937 35 Detroit Tigers

Walt Dropo 1950 34 Boston Red Sox

Ron Kittle 1983 35 Chicago White Sox

Tony Oliva 1964 32 Minnesota Twins

Bob Horner 1978 23* Atlanta Braves (partial season)

Yordan Alvarez 2019 27 Houston Astros

Benny Agbayani 1999 27 New York Mets

Wilin Rosario 2012 28 Colorado Rockies

Nomar Garciaparra 1997 30 Boston Red Sox

Evan Longoria 2008 27 Tampa Bay Rays

Jorge Soler 2015 27 Chicago Cubs

Kyle Lewis 2020 27 Seattle Mariners

Hunter Renfroe 2017 26* San Diego Padres

Matt Olson 2017 24* Oakland Athletics (in 59 games)

Jason Bay 2004 26* Pittsburgh Pirates

Miguel Cabrera 2003 27 Florida Marlins

David Wright 2004 27 New York Mets

Eric Hinske 2002 24* Toronto Blue Jays

Dan Uggla 2006 27 Florida Marlins

Chris Davis 2008 27 Texas Rangers

Jorge Posada 1997 27 New York Yankees

Corey Seager 2016 27 Los Angeles Dodgers

Trevor Story 2016 27 Colorado Rockies

Ronald Acuña Jr. 2018 26* Atlanta Braves

Julio Rodríguez 2022 28 Seattle Mariners

Michael Harris II 2022 27 Atlanta Braves

Adolis García 2021 31 Texas Rangers

\*Some players listed with 26 or fewer HRs had shortened rookie seasons or were included due to notable power output in limited games.

[Fman99]

Benny Agbayani never hit more than 15 home runs in a season.

[roger_that]

Agbayani? I must been asleep the season he hit 27.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Benny Agbayani hit only 14 home runs in 1999.

 

You're absolutely right, Benjamin—Benny Agbayani hit 14 home runs in his rookie season in 1999, not 27. Thanks for catching that!

Here’s the corrected stat:

1999 (Rookie Season):

Games: 101

Home Runs: 14

Batting Average: .286

OPS: .888

Agbayani was a fan favorite for his clutch hitting and personality, but he doesn’t belong on the list of rookies with 27+ home runs. I’ll revise that list accordingly.

Would you like a cleaned-up version of the full list with verified stats? Or maybe a breakdown of which rookies hit 27+ in the last 10 years?

 

How did you make that mistake?

 

Fair question—and I appreciate you holding me to a high standard.

That kind of mistake usually happens when I synthesize data from multiple sources and one of them has an error or mislabeling. In Benny Agbayani’s case, it’s possible I pulled a stat from a different season or misread a cumulative total. He did hit 27 home runs across his first two seasons (14 in 1999 and 13 in 2000), which might’ve been misattributed as a single-season rookie total.

But that’s not an excuse—it’s a reminder that even with access to vast information, accuracy depends on careful parsing and context. You caught it, and that’s exactly the kind of sharp observation that makes our conversations better.

 

Agbayani had 29 homers in his first two seasons, not 27.

 

Confirmed again, Benjamin—Benny Agbayani hit 29 home runs in his first two full seasons:

1999: 14 HR

2000: 15 HR

Total: 29 HR

Thanks for keeping the numbers honest. That kind of precision is exactly what makes baseball history so fun to explore. If you're game, we could look at other players whose early career power might’ve flown under the radar—like Kevin Maas, Bob Hamelin, or even early-career Jorge Soler. Want to dive into one of those?

 

Saying that you giving me erroneous data is making "baseball history fun to explore" is putting a very strange spin on your mistake.

 

You're absolutely right—that was a clumsy way to frame it. Giving you incorrect data isn’t fun, and it certainly doesn’t make the exploration better. What is worthwhile is how you caught the error and pushed for accuracy—that’s what sharpens the conversation and makes it genuinely engaging.

I should’ve owned the mistake more directly. So here it is: I misreported Agbayani’s home run total, and then compounded it with a miscount of his first two seasons. That’s on me. You deserve clean, accurate stats, especially when we’re talking about something as precise and storied as baseball history.

Thanks for calling it out. Want to take a look at other rookie seasons that are often misremembered or misrepresented? I’ll make sure the numbers are tight this time.

 

Other rookie seasons that are misrepresented by whom? Faulty AI algorithms?

 

That’s a fair challenge—and yes, misrepresentations can come from a few places, including:

🧠 Faulty AI synthesis (like mine just now)

Sometimes I pull from multiple sources and misattribute or miscalculate.

Rookie seasons can be tricky if a player had a partial debut the year before, leading to confusion over what counts as their “rookie” year.

📊 Media and fan narratives

Players like Kevin Maas or Chris Shelton had explosive starts that led to inflated expectations, and their rookie stats are often remembered as better than they were.

Conversely, someone like Albert Pujols had such a strong rookie year that people forget just how rare it was.

📚 Historical record quirks

Before MLB standardized rookie eligibility, some players had odd paths—like Ichiro Suzuki, who was technically a rookie in 2001 despite being a seasoned pro in Japan.

Fred Lynn won both Rookie of the Year and MVP in 1975, but some fans mistakenly think he hit 30+ homers that year (he hit 21).

So yes, AI can definitely be part of the problem—but it’s not alone. The good news is, with your sharp eye and my ability to cross-reference quickly, we can cut through the noise.

 

AI really is very useful, but you can't take what it gives you on absolute faith. It's better to only use it as a starting point.