Green Thoughts

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I have vague memories of watching Andy Green as a Met, wearing No. 10.

Managed the Padres for 3+ seasons.

That's all I got

[metirish]

Andrew Mulligan Green 

[Benjamin Grimm]

It isn't easy being Green.

I assume this is an audition for the permanent gig.

 

[Benjamin Grimm]

Fun fact: He's the first Mets manager to share a last name with one of his predecessors.

[seawolf17]

Green, at least, has been in the org for a while and theoretically knows these kids as well as anyone. Hopefully that leads to something.

[metirish]

I like him already 

 

 

[Edgy MD]

8 hours ago, Benjamin Grimm said:

Fun fact: He's the first Mets manager to share a last name with one of his predecessors.

That Ron Hodges managerial stint that seemed so likely never came to pass.

[Frayed Knot]

Plus, the future managerial stint of Kodai Stengel is probably a long shot.

[metirish]

Stearns says Green is going back to the Frong Office after the season 

[The Hot Corner]

Green has said that Jared Young will receive the "lions share" of the reps at first base.  I am all for that.  He has shown a solid stroke with good power at the plate.  He demonstrated his defensive abilities with several nice plays in yesterday's game.  Given the other options (Vientos & Baty) I am fine with Green's plan.  Let young have his shot to show what he can do as a regular. 

I've seen enough of Vientos to know he is not the answer at first base.

[Cowtipper]

His winning percentage is only .250 right now. He's worse than Salty Parker!

The Mets have really been in a state of flux for what seems like 10 years now. Going back to the '90s, Dallas Green specifically, there was a trend toward managerial stability:

Dallas Green: 512 games, managed part or all of 4 campaigns
Bobby Valentine: 1,003 games, 6+ seasons,
Art Howe: 323 games, 2 full seasons
Willie Randolph: 555 games, about 3.5 seasons
Jerry Manuel: 417 games, about 2.5 seasons
Terry Collins: 1,134 games: 7 full seasons

After 2017, we've had:

Mickey Callaway: 324 games, 2 full seasons
Luis Rojas: 222 games, 2 "full" seasons (2020 included)
Buck Showalter: 324 games, 2 full seasons
Carlos Mendoza: 405 games, 2.5 seasons

From Dallas Green to Terry Collins, we had two managers with less than 500 games and the equivalent of 3+ seasons of work. Since then, we haven't had a single manager even reach 500 games, or about 3 full seasons, as a Mets skipper. 

[Edgy MD]

Andy Green emptied a good chunk of his goodwill account with me yesterday, starting Ewing in the leadoff spot and then pinch-hitting Tyrone Taylor for him against a lefty, mid-game.

Ewing is hitting .190 against lefties, but the Mets needed baserunners, and while his OBP against lefties is a still paltry .255, Taylor's is only a half-tick better at .260, with enough game left to play to make it likely that the spot would come up again, which it did, as Taylor not only came up empty quickly in the seventh, but undermined the Mets' rally against Iglesias in the ninth.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

It's not encouraging that he'll be one of the guys interviewing his own successor next year.

[smg58]

Ewing has a .241 BABIP against lefties, which is extremely unlucky for a lefty hitter with his speed.  He'll regress to the mean in a good way if he's given the chance.

I realize Taylor is responsible for the team's happiest moment this season, but why is he still here?

[Cowtipper]

He's 2-6 since joining the Mets. Maybe the manager wasn't the problem after all. 

Maybe this whole time, it's been ... 

... someone else.

[Edgy MD]

I'm getting the notion that Andy Green will neither become the permanent manager nor return to his prior role as farm director, but will perhaps instead end up filling the long-vacant GM role.

That's not off the top of my head.  Chelsea Janes of SNY is openly speculating about it.  And when Chelsea Janes openly speculates, it's a thing.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I assume he'd want to know what the responsibilities are for a GM who works under a POBO. I'm not sure anyone really knows that.

[Edgy MD]

Chelsea Janes is way ahead of you, kicking around that question without answering it in the column-filling manner that is the mark of a future Spink Award winner.
 

Quote

 

Exactly what a general manager’s duties consist of varies from organization to organization. Practically, it is just a title – though one that does affirm a certain organizational weight to the opinions of the person holding it.

Whether in that position or another, Green will almost certainly remain a crucial voice moving forward, particularly because of his experience in a variety of on-field roles. People familiar with higher-ups’ thinking say this year led to the conclusion that they could use more people with major league experience in their operation, though whether that means hiring a manager with playing experience, adding voices to their front office, or both remains to be seen.

 

 

[ashie62]

I would have no issue with Green returning as manager. I believe the oft mentioned Carlos Beltran is too big for the job. If Beltran was failing as a manager who would be willing to fire this legend? Maybe anyone but I don't think so

Green as a GM? For what? to submit transactions? As long as Stearns is here he will call almost 100% of the shots

I don't think Green will return as manager. It is New York and I'm guessing they want some name recognition although Mendoza didn't really have any

Maybe Green finds himself "promoted" to another organization 

LGM

[Edgy MD]

The Washington Senators fired Walter Johnson.  The Texas Rangers didn't fire Ted Willliams, but they encouraged him to resign, as teams often do with living legends to save them dignity.

I'm more concerned with whether he's the right guy to hire than a tough guy to fire.

[Benjamin Grimm]

[Edgy MD]

I'm mentally encouraging the Mets to reach out to Reid Brignac.

He manages Binghamton to a 90-46 record in 2025, which should put him on the short list for big-league managerial openings, but rather than give him a higher-profile job, like bouncing him up to Syracuse or maybe a coaching spot on the big-league staff they were turning over anyhow — the sort of thing that might tell a guy you notice him — they let im walk.

And he end up in Tampa as an assistant coach in AAA, which isn't really a better situation.

Reach out, Mets!

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

What a great song.

When that guitar solo sneaks in and then the sound of it (around 1:30), Mirrors the way the creeping thoughts haunt the singer.

[Cowtipper]

Andy Green has a winning record with the Mets. If he can turn this team into a winning team, then maybe they should really consider making him the full time manager. Brian Snitker took over for Fredi Gonzalez on an interim basis and he became one of the more successful managers in the game (and probably could've managed himself into the Hall if he didn't call it quits). 

[Centerfield]

Manager records don’t establish causation, but you can’t help but wonder how much the Mets were hurt by doubling down on Mendoza as long as they did. 
 

That kind of hubris is the biggest reason for pessimism going forward. 

[Edgy MD]

Greenie has also had a lot more of healthy Soto and Lindor available to him.

The doubling down that got to me was less about management doubling down Mendoza as Mendoza doubling down on Devin Williams.

[Gwreck]

2 hours ago, Centerfield said:

Manager records don’t establish causation, but you can’t help but wonder how much the Mets were hurt by doubling down on Mendoza as long as they did. 
 

That kind of hubris is the biggest reason for pessimism going forward. 

Consider these scenarios:

a. Mendoza is fired after the 2025 season ends.  He‘s had a 172-152 record, making the playoffs one year and barely missing the second.  Half the time he runs the team (June ‘24-June ‘25) they play better than any team in baseball, and the other half they play like crap.  He’s the 4th consecutive Mets manager to not last more than two years.

The team is otherwise the same, so you still have the early Soto, Lindor, Robert, and Polanco injuries.  Does a different manager get more out of Bichette and Peterson and Baty and Semien?  Enough that they’re not so awful that they fall out of the race immediately?

b. Mendoza starts the season but is fired April 26, after the Mets are swept by the Rockies and are 9-19.  

c. Mendoza is fired May 25, after the sweep  in Miami.  Mets are 22-31.

d. (Actual events): Mendoza fired June 25, Mets are 34-47.

With the benefit of hindsight, I have a hard time seeing the Mets making the playoffs even in scenario B or C.  And firing Mendoza earlier than April 26 seems unrealistic if he’s the managerial choice for the year.

 

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I keep thinking of the Jerry Manuel parallel. The team performed much better under him than under Wee Willie Small Balls but circumstances changed too. That year, the Mets had 4 West Coast trips by the time WWSB was whacked and none afterward.

WWSB: 34-35, .493

Jer-ree: 55-38, .591

Green is benefitting from a healthier Lindor and less healthy Vientos than Mendy got. They are still not a great team. I'd like to see the entire staff whacked.

[Edgy MD]

I just continue to think that, unless the managing bug has really gotten back into Andy Green's blood in the last eight weeks, he really prefers the stability, creativity, collaboration, and behind-the-scenes anonymity of front office work.

A lot of things can go wrong at a lot of different levels in an organization, but as Mendoza has demonstrated, the manager guy is usually the first whale to get harpooned.

Andy Green went to Kentucky on an academic scholarship, not a baseball one, and graduated summa cum laude.  I don't think he's in the game for the love of the locker room smell.

Fun Fact: The Mets signed him to his last professional contract as a player on the same day they signed R.A. Dickey.  Come crazy scout said "Let's sign a bunch of really smart guys from the Cumberland Mountain states, who are seemingly at the end of the line in journeyman careers — but maybe, with enough brains, one or two of them will somehow will figure things out in their thirties."

[Centerfield]

18 hours ago, Gwreck said:

Consider these scenarios:

a. Mendoza is fired after the 2025 season ends.  He‘s had a 172-152 record, making the playoffs one year and barely missing the second.  Half the time he runs the team (June ‘24-June ‘25) they play better than any team in baseball, and the other half they play like crap.  He’s the 4th consecutive Mets manager to not last more than two years.

The team is otherwise the same, so you still have the early Soto, Lindor, Robert, and Polanco injuries.  Does a different manager get more out of Bichette and Peterson and Baty and Semien?  Enough that they’re not so awful that they fall out of the race immediately?

b. Mendoza starts the season but is fired April 26, after the Mets are swept by the Rockies and are 9-19.  

c. Mendoza is fired May 25, after the sweep  in Miami.  Mets are 22-31.

d. (Actual events): Mendoza fired June 25, Mets are 34-47.

With the benefit of hindsight, I have a hard time seeing the Mets making the playoffs even in scenario B or C.  And firing Mendoza earlier than April 26 seems unrealistic if he’s the managerial choice for the year.

 

The answer to all questions is, of course, we don’t know. There’s no way to know. What I do know is that the man sat up there for just over a calendar year with no answers. Nothing to offer. Completely befuddled. I don’t know if he was part of the problem, but he certainly wasn’t part of the solution. 
 

I would have fired him after the 2025 season. 83 wins with that team, that payroll warrants firing. 4 months of futility with no answers made it patently clear.  And 89 wins the year before isn’t enough to offset that. But the Mets chose to bring him back, and even those in favor of it agreed he should have a short leash  

I get that it’s tough to fire a manager on April 21. But a 12 game losing streak is fucking insane. By the time you get to May 24, it’s obvious he has to go. Hanging onto him for another month is inexcusable. 

And it’s not just the losing.  We saw some of the dumbest baseball you’ve ever seen.  Mental errors, getting picked off, no one backing up bases.  For what it’s worth, that kind of stupid play has largely disappeared once Green took over.  I no longer look at my TV wondering if anyone has ever played the game before.

there was no reason to keep him another month, long after it was obvious to everyone, other than hubris. They didn’t want to admit they made a mistake. And that’s my biggest concern going forward. Will Stearns admit he fucked up and do things differently?  Or will this offseason be another example of him being stubborn and doubling down.