What, Me Worry?

[metirish]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Great news for the 1980 Mets.

[ashie62]

With Pete down there are opportunities for others

[Frayed Knot]

Among the other post-mortem items from the Braves series is that Atlanta, who start the same lineup every night, hit 7 HRs over the three games from six different lineup slots including the catcher slot twice (Murphy and d'Arnaud). Eddie Rosario along with, oddly, Acuna and Olson, failed to tally. Worse yet is that 6 of the 8 came in the 5th inning or later with Robertson, Ottavino, and Drew Smith each contributing to the carnage.

So they got HRs from the #3, 4 (x2), 5, 6, 8, and 9 spots



6, 8, and 9 were game winners

[TransMonk]

In August of last year, I honestly wondered if the 2021 team was the best I had ever witnessed as an adult.



Now I feel like they played above their heads to an historic level.



Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

[Frayed Knot]

Has a team ever gone from 101 wins to 101 losses in one season?

[Edgy MD]

Marlins did something like the equivalent, going from 92 wins (and a championship) to 108 losses.

[Frayed Knot]

But they were trying to do that.

[ashie62]

Yes they were and good morning



During the destruction of the Braves at Citi last summer I thought that Mets team was as good or better than almost any I had seen



Less than a year later Metsies are on hard times

[stevejrogers]

Edgy MD wrote: Marlins did something like the equivalent, going from 92 wins (and a championship) to 108 losses.

Shedding a lot of talent was more the reason for that though. Including having the best catcher of his era for about two weeks!

[Edgy MD]

Hey, the question was the question. There were no caveats.



We're all shedding something. Always. But I'll happily wager that the Mets will not lose 101 games this season.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I would be surprised if Buck is on the hot seat. I think many people are assuming that Steve Cohen is the second coming of George Steinbrenner. Maybe he is, but I'm not so sure.

Sensible words from the owner:



https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/steve-cohen-not-going-to-blow-up-over-troubling-mets-start/https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/steve-cohen-not-going-to-blow-up-over-troubling-mets-start/

[Edgy MD]

“I'm trying to be thoughtful about this. And not reactionary. Because I've got enough experience, whether in my business or even in baseball now, to know that when things are going great, you are never as great as you think you are, and when things are going really bad, you are not as bad as you think you are. Things can turn around fairly quickly."

Also known as "Y.n.a.g.a.y.t.y.a.w.y.w. Y.n.a.b.a.y.t.y.a.w.y.l."



Now if we can just convince him to stop taking his fashion tips from George Santos.



[FIMG=500]https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012154295-2.jpg?resize=1024,683&quality=75&strip=all[/FIMG]

[nymr83]

Lose the jacket. Mark Cuban pulls off "I'm a filthy rich sports owner and always dressed casually but not like a shlub" well, that would be the guy to copy

[ashie62]

NY Post ran a story quoting Steve Cohen as saying "All jobs are safe"



He doesn't see that being reactionary does any good



He did say "losing seven games is sort of unimaginable"

[kcmets]

They suck. It happens. Season over.

[ashie62]

I guess that don't need starting pitching at the deadline



Good bye to



Tommy Pham

Mark Canha

Daniel Vogelbach

Starling Marte

Carlos Carrasco

Max Scherzer

David Robertson

[Edgy MD]

That's a lot of assuming.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I think trading Max is a possibility. He said he would wave his no-trade for a chance at a World Series and there is a (very small) chance that he could opt out after this season to be a FA again, as unlikely as that is given his salary and performance thus far. But if the Mets think they could get a great prospect or two in exchange for a fully paid-off Scherzer, I absolutely think they would and should do it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Not one, but two great prospects for Scherzer? And when almost half the teams make the playoffs? What Bizarro alternate universe did I slip into?



[FIMG=444]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wKYAAOSwlAljcsoq/s-l1600.jpg[/FIMG]

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm glad that Bizarro and Frankenstein's monster seem to be hitting it off.

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, if the Mets put out the 'open for bidness' sign soon enough, a paid-off Scherzer could be very enticing to a contender with a rotation hole. This is where Steve Cohenbucks come in handy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think so too. I don't know about "two great prospects" but if the Mets are paying all of Scherzer's salary (minus the minimum) they should be able to get someone of real value in return. Between the remainder of this year and all of next year, Scherzer is still owed around $65 million. The Mets wouldn't eat that money unless they got back a very appealing package. Otherwise, they'd just as well pay Scherzer the $65 million to pitch for them and hope for the best.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher.



So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed.



So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

[batmagadanleadoff]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=130282 time=1688067301 user_id=68]
Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher.



So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed.



So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

[Benjamin Grimm]

That's kind of my point. They might as well keep him, unless they can get back someone who's worth $65 million, or somewhere within a reasonable distance of $65 million.



If the other team is paying his full salary, you take whatever you can get, even if it's a 40-year-old who never rose above Single A. But if the Mets are paying it, then they get someone very good (or potentially very good) or you don't make the deal.



Given that, I don't think it's likely that he's going anywhere.

[Chad ochoseis]

I've been thinking about the wisdom of moving Scherzer and maybe even Verlander for a while. They both still have value, and one of the advantages of being Steve Cohen is that you can accept your mistakes, eat salary, and move on.



The main concern there is that we have no high level MLB-ready pitching prospects in our own system for 2024, and the free agent pitching crop is thin once we get past Ohtani.



Maybe we get The Great One, but he's basically going to write his own contract. I don't like the risk of signing any one player to 8/400, and I'm guessing that's what he'll cost at the low end. https://www.outkick.com/shohei-ohtani-contract-estimate-reaches-insane-new-highs/#:~:text=According%20to%20their%20model%2C%20Ohtani,for%20a%20free%20agent%20starter This article has his value at 6/202 if he were only a pitcher and 9/326 if he were only a hitter.



The next best pitcher available for 2024 is most likely Aaron Nola. Clayton Kershaw signed a one year contract last year and will technically be available, but he's probably not going anywhere. Marcus Stroman has a player option that he should exercise, but that bridge is burned.



If we could get a high quality young pitcher in exchange for Scherzer plus salary, that's great. But that's a big if.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Guest

[A Boy Named Seo]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=130282 time=1688067301 user_id=68]
Let's be concrete. What should the Mets expect for paying Scherzer's $65M? He's still a 40+ year old pitcher in decline. How fast he declines is anybody's guess but the decline is inevitable and a 40+ year old pitcher is closer to his decline than a 30 year old pitcher.



So let's be concrete. And consider not only what the Mets should expect but what some other team would be willing to give up to maybe, just maybe, be the last playoff seed.



So who would that be? Someone like Jon Niese? The 1983 version of Tom Seaver? If Seaver, then the Mets might as well keep Scherzer, who isn't Juan Soto anymore. Well, I guess it'll be a prospect. Otherwise, what's the point of trading one pitcher well into career for another?

[batmagadanleadoff]

When he was traded, Tyler Mahle was a 26 year old pitcher coming off two straight seasons where he finished in the top 10 in numerous statistical pitching categories. And he was considered to have upside, being a 26 year old not yet reaching his actuarial baseball prime. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh him by calling him "Tyler Fucking Mahle" . This year, he started off about as dominant as any pitcher in all of baseball until he got injured.



Scherzer is none of those things, despite being a sure-thing Hall-of-Famer.

[smg58]

Scherzer might be able to convince a GM to give him half his current salary over two years were he to opt out. So I'd assume it won't happen. But if the Mets eat half his salary and a team gets a starter with a track record under control for another year (perhaps with a guarantee on Scherzer's part in that regard), the Mets could get a valuable prospect, plus $20M to spend on somebody else in the offseason. I wouldn't be against that.