Carlos Beltran, 22nd Manager of the New York Mets

[G-Fafif]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=25832 time=1572715003 user_id=68]
=LWFS post_id=25801 time=1572661382 user_id=84]




This TOTALLY won't end well....

[Frayed Knot]

Dick Williams won two in a row for Oakland ('72 & '73) but then walked from a team that was on its way to wining its third straight.

Of course Williams wasn't through with managing forever, or even for very long, as he resurfaced (by the end of) the very next season with Anaheim and went on to manage all or parts of 15 more seasons

with the Angels, Padres, Expos, and Mariners.

He was just through with Charlie Finley.

[Mex17]

Edgy MD wrote: And Callaway, having been hired out of another big league dugout, doesn't align with your Peter Principle scenario particularly well at all.

I specifically said "bench coach". Pitching coaches are a different animal.



I'm totally revealing my Sci-fi geekdom today, but, as another analogy to go with the Star Trek one that I had earlier, allow me to reference the 2000's version of Battlestar Galactica. In one episode, one of the Battlestars (the one that wasn't Galactica) was at one point down so many senior bridge officers as a result of attrition that the had to turn command to the Chief Engineer who technically held the rank of Commander. In the episode, things got so bad in the heat of battle with the Cylons that Galactica had to transfer over one of their Junior officers who had actual CIC experience to bail the other guy out. The guy had skill sets, just not the right skill sets. His were more micro focused on engineering.



That's how I viewed Callaway before and after his tenure. He's a pitching coach. . .important but a totally different thing than guys like Bogar, Perez, or Shelton.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: And Callaway, having been hired out of another big league dugout, doesn't align with your Peter Principle scenario particularly well at all. I specifically said "bench coach". Pitching coaches are a different animal.

What I specifically didn't write is that he aligns well with a bench coach. He's a different animal either way

[G-Fafif]

Danny Murtaugh stepped down after the 1971 Series, taking a front office role. Went back to the dugout when Bill Virdon was fired.

[Edgy MD]

Oddly enough, Beltran himself got to go out on top as a player, retiring after winning a championship with the 2017 Astros.



But yeah, managers are, by and large, hired to be fired, so "It won't end well" is an easy enough prediction.

[G-Fafif]

No Met managerial tenure has ended well, unless you count the interim managers who returned without vocal complaint to coaching.

[Edgy MD]

Terry's was probably the best outcome.



He got to retire and retain a role in the organization without up and breaking his hip.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Gil Hodges wasn't on the chopping block. Although, admittedly, a fatal heart attack is no great shakes either and is probably less preferable than getting the ax. I wonder how much patience the Mets would've had with Casey had he not fractured his hip and kept on going?

[LWFS]

Edgy MD wrote: Oddly enough, Beltran himself got to go out on top as a player, retiring after winning a championship with the 2017 Astros. But yeah, managers are, by and large, hired to be fired, so "It won't end well" is an easy enough prediction.

How about "It will end with disgraceful tabloid headlines, secret leaks, and "player sources"... and all after a nominally-successful season?" Is that specific enough?



I was being a bit coy. I meant that the Wilpons' heavy hand will contribute to an outcome that doesn't meet expectations, and Beltran will be the scapegoat. Because it's NEVER the fault of the guys who sign the paychecks.



I don't pray, but if I did, I'd pray for impotent Wilpons. Because as long as there are children, Lord...

[Willets Point]

A successful manager these days is 90% about the soft skills of making sure all the players feel happy and listened to as well as being the face of the team for the media (and running interference for the players to make them feel happy and listened to when the media is out for blood). I think Beltran is excellent choice under these conditions.



The manager as on-field general who has a plan and makes the players listen to him is a thing of the past.

[duan]

I'm actually pretty happy with this. I really liked Beltran, he's a smart guy and I don't get worried about the 'not needing the money'.

[Mex17]

https://nypost.com/2019/11/03/mets-risky-media-obsession-put-carlos-beltran-over-the-top/https://nypost.com/2019/11/03/mets-risky-media-obsession-put-carlos-beltran-over-the-top/



Sounds to me that the tail was wagging the dog in this process. Not good.



Why don't you just hire the most qualified person that you can get and all this media stuff will just take care of itself when success emanates from experienced hands guiding good process?



Are we instead going to be limited only to middling candidates and total shots in the dark who just happened to have passed through this town while potentially great hires are passed over just because they have done their best work in the Midwest?

[Ceetar]

https://nypost.com/2019/11/03/mets-risky-media-obsession-put-carlos-beltran-over-the-top/https://nypost.com/2019/11/03/mets-risky-media-obsession-put-carlos-beltran-over-the-top/ Sounds to me that the tail was wagging the dog in this process. Not good. Why don't you just hire the most qualified person that you can get and all this media stuff will just take care of itself when success emanates from experienced hands guiding good process? Are we instead going to be limited only to middling candidates and total shots in the dark who just happened to have passed through this town while potentially great hires are passed over just because they have done their best work in the Midwest?

well that was a garbage hack job.



He details all the intricate, and completely normal, steps of the interview.



Look, he wanted Girardi, this is clear, but his only argument against Beltran is maybe explaining yourself to me is harder when you're accounting for more than just yourself? How is this anything but accusing Beltran of being selfish, something I bet I could dig up him saying about Beltran 10 years ago? And then he finishes it with a Wainwright mention because of course he's gotta get the dig in, he might get mistaken for being professional otherwise.



hack.

[Edgy MD]

The problem with hiring the most qualified guy you can is that 100% of everybody disagrees on what qualifications a manager should have.



Hey, you know who went out on top? Edgardo Alfonzo went out on top.

[Ceetar]

hitting coach Edgardo Alfonzo?





one of the nice things about working from home is I guess I can easily stream and watch this press conference at 11.

[G-Fafif]

Carlos laid down the NL East law in two languages, promised to set the Nationals' championship flag “en fuego” and generally promised to kick ass on the field and in the clubhouse.



Or he spoke in vaguely upbeat platitudes while cloaked in a dress shirt, tie and uniform top. I forget which. Either way, let's sign Rendon.

[The Hot Corner]

I always liked Beltran as a player. I hope for the best. I feel he can handle the clubhouse personalities and the press, but I just worry that his complete lack of managerial experience will be a major problem.