Seems like Mex17 really wants to talk Realmuto

[Centerfield]

A guy who doesn’t crack the top tier in OPS cannot be a franchise player.

[smg58]

Centerfield wrote: A guy who doesn’t crack the top tier in OPS cannot be a franchise player.

This. Realmuto is one of the better catchers in the league right now, but he is not Gary Carter or Mike Piazza in their primes.

[Centerfield]

BVW: Wanna bet I can get the fan base to celebrate Martin Maldonado?

JW: No way dude. Like how?

BVW: So first, I leak that we're going to sign Maldonado, and they get all "No, he sucks, sign someone good."

JW: Right...

BVW: Then I'm all like "Ok fine. Then I'll trade Nimmo and Conforto for Realmuto..."

JW: Wait, but you're not really gonna...

BVW: Of course not! And then I throw around the name Conforto and they really freak the fuck out.

JW: OMG OMG LOLOL

BVW: And wait, then I say I'm going to trade Syndergaard...

JW: Stop Brodie, omg, that's too much!

BVW: ....and send him to the Yankees in a three way!

JW: (stunned silence)

BVW: And then boom. I sign Maldonado, and those motherfuckers fucking celebrate!

JW: You're a genius. I love you.

[Edgy MD]

I hope.

[Vic Sage]

I wouldn't mind Rosario (plus pitching prospect) for Realmuto, because a lot of our top prospects are SSs (Giminez, Mauricio, Newton) and Rosario hasn't proven anything yet in the majors, while Realmuto has established himself as the best catcher in baseball at this point. So we'd be filling one hole, with the depth to fill the other. Or we could just sign Machado!

[Centerfield]

Vic Sage wrote: Or we could just sign Machado!

You have a funny way of spelling "Reyes".

[Lefty Specialist]

Centerfield wrote: Vic Sage wrote: Or we could just sign Machado! You have a funny way of spelling "Reyes".

lol. Watch it happen.

[seawolf17]

Vic Sage wrote: I wouldn't mind Rosario (plus pitching prospect) for Realmuto, because a lot of our top prospects are SSs (Giminez, Mauricio, Newton) and Rosario hasn't proven anything yet in the majors, while Realmuto has established himself as the best catcher in baseball at this point. So we'd be filling one hole, with the depth to fill the other. Or we could just sign Machado!

This, absolutely. I'd do Rosario and Lugo for Realmuto, and go back to Cabrera for a year or two at short. But Miami's going to want more than that.

[Vic Sage]

seawolf17 wrote: Vic Sage wrote: I wouldn't mind Rosario (plus pitching prospect) for Realmuto, because a lot of our top prospects are SSs (Giminez, Mauricio, Newton) and Rosario hasn't proven anything yet in the majors, while Realmuto has established himself as the best catcher in baseball at this point. So we'd be filling one hole, with the depth to fill the other. Or we could just sign Machado! This, absolutely. I'd do Rosario and Lugo for Realmuto, and go back to Cabrera for a year or two at short. But Miami's going to want more than that.

Trade Rosario + Wheeler + one of our top remaining pitching prospects (Peterson, Szapucki, Kay, Richardson) for 2 years of Realmuto and a draft pick. Then, we put Lugo back in the rotation and sign some relievers (Miller, Ottavino, Robertson), along with either a stopgap SS (until one of our prospects is ready) or go all in on Machado (who can move to 3b in 2020).

Nimmo / Lagares
Realmuto / Plawecki
Machado
Cespedes
Cano / Giminez
Conforto
Alonzo/D.Smith
McNeil / Frazier
P--

[Vic Sage]

but frankly i'd rather just sign Grandal and keep Rosario.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Rosario for Realmuto is just a fucking awful trade, in my opinion.

It's not that the numbers don't suggest it would be an "upgrade," it's that the idea of flipping a 23 year-old homegrown guy whose best days are likely to come for a free-agent-to-be coming off a career year is just so distasteful, sorta like trading your top draft pick for a 36 year old Yankee steriod cheat

[Vic Sage]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Rosario for Realmuto is just a fucking awful trade, in my opinion. It's not that the numbers don't suggest it would be an "upgrade," it's that the idea of flipping a 23 year-old homegrown guy whose best days are likely to come for a free-agent-to-be coming off a career year is just so distasteful, sorta like trading your top draft pick for a 36 year old Yankee steriod cheat

yeah, except for being nothing like that.

Realmuto is 27, not 36, with 2 full years of control remaining. He's not coming off a "career year"; his last season was just one more year of increasing productivity, with each year better than the last, resulting in an all-star and silver slugger season. He's just entering his prime and there is no reason to think he can't maintain or even continue to increase his production.

Rosario is 23 and, he is all projection with little production so far. Yes, we would have 5 years of control, but if he doesn't live up to his projections, what good are they? Sure, he's got talent, but he wouldn't be the first prospect not to pan out. If you can get a 27-year old all-star catcher for him, i think you do that. I just don't think the Marlins would do that. Even Jeter's not that stupid. We'd have to include some other prospects, at least.

[Vic Sage]

and, as i said, i'd rather keep Rosario and sign Grandal. That just costs money, and it doesn't create another hole to fill.

[Mex17]

I can live with Nimmo or Rosario (preferably Nimmo and absolutely not both) plus Peterson if you can iron clad guarantee to me that they also sign Pollock and Marwin Gonzalez (assuming Harper/Machado are really out of the equation).

McNeil and Gonzalez would provide a lot of flexibility. But you really need to cross your fingers and hope Pollock stays healthy.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Vic Sage wrote: and, as i said, i'd rather keep Rosario and sign Grandal. That just costs money, and it doesn't create another hole to fill.

In agreement with you there.

I don't trust catchers in general, they seem to me to be hard to develop, hard to predict, fragile and even for the good ones, so much rides on defense. I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't upgrade but if the Marlins drive too hard a bargain then there's options still out there, and we still got guys who can fake it till July when maybe you've got a better idea if Gimenez is anything, if Rosario shows the ability to improve (as he did over the 2nd half last season) and whether the team that traded for Realmuto is ready to do their own flipshow.

[smg58]

There are enough parallels between Rosario's 2018 and Jose Reyes' 2005 that I'd be reluctant to part with Rosario. Obviously there's no guarantee you'll get the same results, but if the light switch clicks on I want him wearing a Mets uniform when it happens.

[Centerfield]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic Sage wrote: and, as i said, i'd rather keep Rosario and sign Grandal. That just costs money, and it doesn't create another hole to fill. In agreement with you there. I don't trust catchers in general, they seem to me to be hard to develop, hard to predict, fragile and even for the good ones, so much rides on defense. I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't upgrade but if the Marlins drive too hard a bargain then there's options still out there, and we still got guys who can fake it till July when maybe you've got a better idea if Gimenez is anything, if Rosario shows the ability to improve (as he did over the 2nd half last season) and whether the team that traded for Realmuto is ready to do their own flipshow.

And even if Realmuto is at his best, he's not someone that scares you in the middle of the lineup.

Trade packages like the ones the Marlins are asking for are the ones you put together for game changers. Nolan Arenado. Kris Bryant. Even Paul Goldschmidt.

Realmuto doesn't hit over .300 (Ok he hit .303 once), doesn't eclipse an OBP of .350, and has hit 20 HR's once (21 as a career high last year).

[Mex17]

Centerfield wrote: And even if Realmuto is at his best, he's not someone that scares you in the middle of the lineup. Trade packages like the ones the Marlins are asking for are the ones you put together for game changers. Nolan Arenado. Kris Bryant. Even Paul Goldschmidt. Realmuto doesn't hit over .300 (Ok he hit .303 once), doesn't eclipse an OBP of .350, and has hit 20 HR's once (21 as a career high last year).

He is a #2 or a #6 complimentary hitter whose defense adds to his WAR. Absolutely a solid addition to a good team that has playoff aspirations.

For the right price.

And maybe I am rationalizing, but by bet is that BVW probably can make up for the loss of Rosario and Nimmo with two to three FA signings for the lineup/bench and still have a good team with Gimenez a year to year and a half away. But that still does not justify the price going to Miami.

[Frayed Knot]

smg58 wrote: ... if the light switch clicks on I want [Rosario] wearing a Mets uniform when it happens.

And the light started to burn a bit starting in August: ~.285/.318/.415 over the final 240 PA of his season

As much as I'd like Realmuto, if Rosario wasn't a SS and didn't just turn 23 and wasn't just an off-season removed from being an across the board Top-10 prospect in baseball, I'd be less skittish about dealing him.

[Centerfield]

I can understand Realmuto for Rosario.

Realmuto has already met his potential but has fewer years of control. Rosario hasn’t met his, but has shown good signs, and is young with five years left. Realmuto is more valuable to a contender, Rosario to a rebuilder.

For a team like the Mets, it comes down to plugging one hole or another. They have no internal options at either position.

If you trade Rosario, how do you replace him? Other than Machado, which I don’t see them doing, there are few options. Cabrera I guess. Or some of those glove guys from the other thread.

But at catcher, you have Grandal, and Ramos and maybe others available via trade. A true “win now” club would seriously consider these. The Mets are not serious about contending, so it is what it is.

[Benjamin Grimm]

New York Post wrote: According to reports, including by The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal, the Mets have talked to the Padres about a potential deal that would include Realmuto going to Queens, Syndergaard to San Diego and Padres prospects to the Marlins.

Padres emerge in Mets’ possible Syndergaard, Realmuto 3-way trade

And according to reports as the winter meetings finished up in Las Vegas on Thursday, this potential Mets, San Diego and Miami swap is also not close, but again shows the Mets’ strong desire to find a way to get Realmuto, whom they have coveted since last offseason.

Any deal that comes down to, from the Mets perspective, Syndergaard for Realmuto, really doesn't make sense. I would think that someone from the Padres would have to come to the Mets too. Hopefully this is just another dead end.

[Centerfield]

Especially since we have no free agent starters available anymore.

Someone else mentioned in another thread that I would guess that our window to trade Noah has closed.

[Frayed Knot]

Six teams are said to be in pursuit of Realmuto: Mets, Reds, Rays, Braves, Dodgers, Padres


Multiple suitors has a habit of driving up the price and, as always with these imagined deals, you've got to be willing to walk away if and when the cost gets too high.
In this case one just hopes that they don't get so crazy-fixated on this one target that they decide it's worth it to pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, etc.
So in conclusion and to continue the JFK theme I've got going here I implore the Brodie Bunch to ask not what a Realmuto trade can do for the Mets, but ask also what it will take from the Mets.

[Frayed Knot]

Joel Sherman lays out the case for why teams think Realmuto is so valuable.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If the Mets eventually get Realmuto I nominate, for his nickname, "Jeweled Squid". (For my nickname methodology, read the article linked above.)

A guy I work with told me that Realmuto can't be that good, because he went to a Marlins game last year and somebody else was catching.

[G-Fafif]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: A guy I work with told me that Realmuto can't be that good, because he went to a Marlins game last year and somebody else was catching.

You work with that San Diego writer who didn't vote for deGrom?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Why the hell is BVW so compelled to (A) bring in Realmuto over all other available catcher options and ( trade Noah Fucking Syndergaard?

[Centerfield]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Why the hell is BVW so compelled to (A) bring in Realmuto over all other available catcher options and ( trade Noah Fucking Syndergaard?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Centerfield wrote: Someone else mentioned in another thread that I would guess that our window to trade Noah has closed.

I sincerely hope that is the case.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Kristie Ackert reporting that it was the Marlins who "aggressively shot down the idea of a three-team deal that would bring All-Star catcher J.T. Realmuto to Flushing and send Noah Syndergaard to the Bronx."

If true, I'd interpret this to mean that Miami didn't like the package that the Yankees would have sent to Miami, and now they're looking to the Padres to come up with a package that the Marlins would like.