Hall of Fame Ballot

[Guest 41Forever]

Lots of Mets connections on the HOF ballot!


Barry Bonds
Chris Carpenter
Roger Clemens
Johnny Damon
Vladimir Guerrero
Livan Hernandez
Trevor Hoffman
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Jason Isringhausen
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Carlos Lee
Brad Lidge
Edgar Martinez
Hideki Matsui
Fred McGriff
Kevin Millwood
Jamie Moyer
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Kerry Wood
Carlos Zambrano

[seawolf17]

Bonds, Guerrero, Hoffman, Chipper, Kent, Edgar, Manny, Sosa, Thome, Walker.

I've come full circle on Bonds (and Sosa and Manny, for that matter). I don't think you can leave them out. (At the same time, I recognize my hypocrisy in keeping Clemens off my list just because I don't like him.)

[dgwphotography]

Guerrero, Hoffman, Chipper, Kent, Thome.

[Guest d'Kong76]

The HOF should appoint a temporary Super Special Situation Committee that
has full power to elect all the super-'roiders in at the same time without voting
and be done with it. Make it clear that going forward no one with a 'roided history
will be eligible for the HOF ever again. Bing, bang, boom...

Fuck it, put Rose in too... sick of that whole saga as well.

[Centerfield]

Are you allowed to consider Matsui's career in Japan? His US career doesn't put him anywhere near the HoF.

I wonder how they will treat that.

[Frayed Knot]

It should be MLB only.
Ichiro gets in via that, Matsui not.

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: It should be MLB only. Ichiro gets in via that, Matsui not.

I tend to agree. I just wonder how writers will treat it. Him being an MFY and all, I can see some bending backwards to stretch it.

For what it's worth, it's the National Baseball Hall of Fame:

The National Baseball Hall of Fame is a nonprofit committed to preserving the history of America’s pastime and celebrating the legendary players, managers, umpires and executives who have made the game a fan favorite for more than a century. Help the memories live on and celebrate the game you love!

This is part of why you can distinguish between the Negro Leagues, and the leagues in Japan.

[Ceetar]

must be Bonds first time on the ballot, he's a shoe in.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: It should be MLB only. Ichiro gets in via that, Matsui not. I tend to agree. I just wonder how writers will treat it. Him being an MFY and all, I can see some bending backwards to stretch it.

He had the bare minimum 10 seasons* to qualify and if you're going to get in without longevity that shortened career needs to be better than just good, it needs to be Koufax / Kiner / Jackie / Hack Wilson good.
Instead, in a hitter's era he amassed 175 HRs, .282 BA, two back of the ballot MVP notices, and led the league in nothing ever except games played his first three seasons (probably tied w/others)

He had a nice run for a guy who didn't show up here until age 29, but I don't see how he gets remotely close to induction.




* really only 8 full ones, with 1 season under 200 ABs and another < 100

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

bonds, clemens, chipper, schilling, mussina, walker, thome, rolen, andruw and Vlad

[Edgy MD]

Edited for polling.

[seawolf17]

Edgy MD wrote: Edited for polling.

Added "I VOTED" at the top so we can get a true percentage.

[G-Fafif]

Johan Santana's comeback, which he was still talking up as recently as 2015, never gained traction, and here he is on the ballot five years after Nohan. Hope he beats 5%, at the very least.

[nymr83]

Bonds Kent Chipper Vlad Manny Vizquel Schilling Sosa Mussina Walker.

That's 10. I still can't vote for a full time DH over any if these guys. I also wont consider relievers when there is such a glut on the ballot. Or Clemens, he deserves it, but I dont like him, so he can wait until I have ballot space.

Andruw would be a strong consideration as well, if I had more room or if you talked me out of someone. Vizquel was probably my last one in in that regard.

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Andruw would be a strong consideration as well, if I had more room or if you talked me out of someone. Vizquel was probably my last one in in that regard.

It's a subjective contest, a way to remember guys, and a way to honor baseball. Curt Schilling is a garbage human and doesn't deserve any attention or audience. Throw Jones or Omar in there.

[Guest 41Forever]

Edgy MD wrote: Edited for polling.

Thank you, Edgy!

This will be an interesting vote, because there are two guys -- Hoffman (74 percent) and Vlad (72 percent) -- who fell just short last year, and you think they'd walk in this year. But you have two guys -- Larry Boy and Thome -- who are legit first ballots guys, and you almost never see the writers put four players in at once. I wouldn't be stunned if the writers make Vlad wait another year, though that would be a shame. (If they wanted to make Larry wait a year and ponder his fate, I'm OK with that.)

Also, the Roid crowd is starting to make gains, so I think we're not too far from seeing one of them get elected. I'm not there yet, so I went with: Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper, Thome, Edgar, Schilling, Johan, McGriff and Omar.

I know Johan's not going to make it, but I looked at his stats again, and those Minnesota years were incredible. Two unanimous Cy Youngs, and I think he was in the top 5 three more years. Career winning percentage of .641.

Vizquel is an interesting case, with all those Gold Gloves. A better offensive player than I remembered.

[Gwreck]

Bonds
Clemens
Guerrero
L. Jones
Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Sheffield
Thome
Walker

Might have also voted for if not for 10 player limit: Hoffman, Sosa

---
The PED nonsense is tiresome. Players who did not fail tests or were not subject to testing with penalties need to be considered. If you want to hold Manny Ramirez's two failed tests (after he had plenty of advance notice as to the ramifications, fine).

Schilling is a vile person but his baseball career is hall of fame worthy. Compares favorably to, say, a Ty Cobb, who did all manner of bad things while playing; and Schilling, who started that crap after his playing days were over.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Chipper has, at the moment, been named on almost 117 per cent of the ballots. (7 out of 6.)

Would that be enough to get in?

[Edgy MD]

I'm the only vote for Andruw Jones.

Most valuable defensive centerfielder ever plus a great peak on the offensive side.

[metsmarathon]

comparison of the hof ballot's players JAWS score (average of career WAR and the WAR from the 7 seasons with the highest WAR) and Jpos - the JAWS score for the average hall of famer at that position.

top 10 in bold.

Name	JAWS	Jpos	compare
Barry Bonds	117.6	53.3	2.21
Roger Clemens	103.3	62.1	1.66
Chipper Jones	65.8	55.2	1.19
Jim Thome	57.2	54.6	1.05
Curt Schilling	64.5	62.1	1.04
Scott Rolen	56.8	55.2	1.03
Mike Mussina	63.8	62.1	1.03
Manny Ramirez	54.6	53.3	1.02
Edgar Martinez	56	55.2	1.01
Larry Walker	58.6	58.1	1.01
Andruw Jones	54.6	57.9	0.94
Sammy Sosa	51	58.1	0.88
Vladimir Guerrero	50.2	58.1	0.86
Gary Sheffield	49.1	58.1	0.85
Fred McGriff	44.1	54.6	0.81
Jeff Kent	45.4	56.9	0.80
Johan Santana	48.1	62.1	0.77
Kerry Wood	26.4	34.4	0.77
Johnny Damon	44.4	57.9	0.77
Trevor Hoffman	24	34.4	0.70
Billy Wagner	24	34.4	0.70
Carlos Zambrano	41.8	62.1	0.67
Jamie Moyer	41.8	62.1	0.67
Omar Vizquel	36	54.8	0.66
Chris Carpenter	32.1	62.1	0.52
Orlando Hudson	29.1	56.9	0.51
Carlos Lee	25.8	53.3	0.48
Livan Hernandez	29.4	62.1	0.47
Kevin Millwood	27.1	62.1	0.44
Hideki Matsui	21.3	53.3	0.40
Aubrey Huff	21.4	54.6	0.39
Jason Isringhausen	12.7	34.4	0.37
Brad Lidge	10.3	34.4	0.30

also, noteworthily, the top 10 players are all above average - their JAWSes are better than the average hall of famer at the same position.

which means that you could elect 10 players and NOT lower the standards of the hall of fame, such is the depth of the current backlog.

[Edgy MD]

Gwreck wrote: The PED nonsense is tiresome. Players who did not fail tests or were not subject to testing with penalties need to be considered.

They are considered.

Interesting that, among tainted players, Bonds is getting five votes out of seven but Clemens and Sheffield have gotten three and Sosa two.

[Gwreck]

I think you understand what I meant.

For the avoidance of doubt, surely we can agree that:
1. But for the issue of Bonds having taken PEDs, he would be a lock for the hall of fame; and
2. The lack of voting support for Bonds is because many voters think his career is tainted for having used PEDs.

[nymr83]

I am not interested in the Schilling-character-assassination game. He definitely keeps my vote.

Scott Rolen is an interesting one and I think he gets overlooked a lot.

We have at least one person who didnt check "I voted" right now, assuming support for Larry Wayne is unanimous.

Nobody disagrees that Bonds would be in on stats alone. He isn't exactly in the Palmiero (failed a test) category buy he isn't in the Bagwell (nothing but suspicion) category either. I'd let him in, enough already.

To be clear, Clemens is just as deserving as Bonds. I just dont like him. I'd vote for him if there wasn't a 10 player limit.

[dgwphotography]

Gwreck wrote: I think you understand what I meant. For the avoidance of doubt, surely we can agree that: 1. But for the issue of Bonds having taken PEDs, he would be a lock for the hall of fame; and 2. The lack of voting support for Bonds is because many voters think his career is tainted for having used PEDs.

That's the shame of Bonds - he was already HOF worthy before when it's generally acknowledged he started taking PEDs.

[ashie62]

BONDS, VLAD, LARRY, EDGAR AND THOME.

[Edgy MD]

Chipper Jones' support has reached 125% of the electorate.

I'm pretty sure that would beat Ken Griffey's total.

[Guest d'Kong76]

VOTED, Bonds, Clemens, Vlad, Chipper, Sosa and Thome...

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Chipper Jones' support has reached 125% of the electorate. I'm pretty sure that would beat Ken Griffey's total.

the "I voted" option may actually be counter-productive. if someone doesnt read it they can throw off our totals AND vote for an 11th player

[Guest cooby]

Isringhausen? He actually eventually played?

I voted Manny and Andruw Jones

[Guest d'Kong76]

Jason was a pretty good relief pitcher in the post-Met afterlife.