Zvon

Bret Sabermetric wrote: This is the sickness of being a Mets fan. Then Ive been ill for 35 years. Looking at Rollins contract I do believe Reyes merits 3 million, and at least 10.5 for 3 years. Reyes: 2007: $3,000,000 2008: $3.500,000 2009: $4,000,000 Sure, Im taking a chance. A GM cant be afraid to roll the dice.

This is sad stuff. The poor idiot. Hey, that aint right! How many times do I have to go to the UMDB and hit up Tugger to get him sole holder of that record........ Im off tomorrow. Ill start at dawn.

Edgy DC wrote: A brief bio of the only named living human witness (the un-named girlfriend is another) who could truly illuminate the record on this sordid tale? It's totally material to the thread! (I didn't notice the print on the ball.) I agree, but if that Rookie Of The Year thing is any indication, we cant trust this Chassky guys word for the record. That only leaves the ambiguous girlfriend. mmmmmmm.

I had never heard about this incedent. I really dont know which way to vote. I always thought Mitchell was a nutty mo fo, more into drugs or bad stuff at that time than Gooden was. But this was based on nothing except instinct, or intuition, coupled with some of the rumours that were circulating about Mitchell then. He was one wack dude tho.The story seems just too out there not to be true, whole or in part. For the sake of keeping this rumour alive and well, Ill say he did it.

Iubitul wrote: When I look at this pic, my eyes immediately go to the photographers' box. Check out those old school lenses! lol @edge.....those are certainly Brady shirts. I was lookin for me but I was still up in mezzanine this game. Rose is not wearing the batting helmet, so this must be from game 3 when Sparky Anderson (that might be his back, far left) pulled the Reds team off the field after the Rose/whiskey bottle incedent, a post traumatic repercussion of the Harrelson/Rose fight. That was a real cheaply constructed make shift box that the Mets had built just for the playoffs. They were wooden and not very sturdy. Bad plan. A section of it along that baseline was for Reds family members. I remember at some point during game 5 they stopped the game afew times. Once because a section of a similarly built box along the 1st base side had collapsed outward, spilling over zealous fans on to the field. And then again when the Reds family members all panicked under the deluge of an orange and blue sea of people behind them anticipating a championship celebration. The police escorted them, in single file, to the Reds bullpen. Another bad plan. Met fans jumped into and took over that section. Those wives and kids really looked scared out of their wits. Im not into 'black' humor but I found this very funny.

That aint no generic form letter.(if it just had Dear Edgy I might think so) Says Crane Poolers rite in there. Thats pretty damn kool Edgy.

found this pic, from the 73 NL playoffs.

lmao,..it was JD. OMG! Look at those ears! I thought mine were big. The more you think about it the more the Skanks simply HAD to do this deal. If they went with Bubba Crosby for 2006 while Damon was out there to be had, Skank fans would have went ballistic. And the Mets moves would have been the only big off season stories.

Valadius wrote: Junior Noboa. that was a good one!

I tried to work out afew scenarios where Reyes comes in with a .311 OBP. In conclusion Id like to go on recoerd saying I predict,...okay....I hope and pray, that he will have a OBP more like .325 in '06, and thats just by matching Rollins in walks alone. Heres Rollins 2005 numbers with Reyes '05 numbers and '06 projected numbers in parethesis along side. Rollins played 158 games (161>projected>158) had 677 at bats, (696>projected>680) 196 hits, (190>projected>191) 115 runs scored, (99>projected>103) doubles, (24>projected>28) 11 triples, (17>projected>15 ) 12 homers, (7>projected>7) 54 RBI, (58>projected>58) 47 walks (27>projected>30) .338 OBP, (.300>projected>.311) .290 AVG, (.276>projected>.280 )

="Nymr83"]when will what end? These rides that players/agents take the owners on. Many think that A-Rods contract has fueled this. Short range, it did. But I personally think that A-Rods contract was the beginning of the end of it. DING! Why doesnt Boston want Manny? Its not because he cant hit, thats for sure.

Nymr83 wrote: if MY GM gave a pre-arbitration guy more money than he had to just to be nice i'd fire him on the spot. lol. You have a point. But when will it end?

Bret Sabermetric wrote: The only way he's not a Met during those years is if they no longer want him.It's not about feelings. Im sure this is true from a business standpoint. But if they no longer want him (for whatever reason), then isnt that the way that they feel? Two more questions: Is it a bad thing for a GM to have feelings of loyalty and fairness in regards to his players? Why wont the players union and players agents/representatives be more flexible? I personally believe we have more than balanced out the scales in regards to how players were paid and treated pre-free agency. But in todays market, the way things stand, 3 million for a healthy annually improving Reyes is not all that much. Its fair and it should keep him happy. Respecting (compared to what other similar players make $$$ wise) and keeping a player happy should be a consideration. (though I have to admit that in my simulated baseball vid game its 2011 and Im only paying him 1.70 million. And he has posted great all star numbers for a shortstop/leadoff hitter. Why? Because I haggled with the artificial intelligence until it accepted the lowest terms possible. I was prepared to pay alot more because I wanted him to stay on. IRL do you think Reyes would settle for so little, if his career did continue to flourish?)

This is just my opinion. The baseball season was always a slow starting machine when it first started rolling. Not for , say, you and I who were waiting all winter for it, but for the average fan. Opening day would be advertised and promoted more so on WORtv9 to [u:4ad858b8a1]watch[/u:4ad858b8a1] than it was to actually go to the game. They thought it was good P.R. to do so. I dont think they were that concerned with how they did out of the gate, but more so how the numbers would spike on weekends and promotion days over the long season. Most of the 70's they figured Seaver alone would be enough of an advertisment to lure fans. Wonder how bad opening day attendance dropped following the year they delt him.

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ="Zvon"]Ive given this some thought. At the top though, let me say strapping him to a .311 OBP and saying he shows small growth in other areas is a tuff projection to work with. It limits where the small growth can occur and ultimately will effect his worth. i was going to type this long break down as to why, but i hate typing. And Im the GM. I shouldnt have to explain in any more detail that this. using the projection, as Mets general manager, Id offer: 3 years at 10.5 on the low and I might go up to 12m. For a GM, you make a pretty good fan. Up to 4 Million per year for a leadoff man whose peak OBP is .311 at the time of signing? Don't you think an arbitrated one-year deal would be a lot less than 4 mil? I do. Your plan gives nothing beyond the Jose's arb. years. It's true that at this point, with Jose's track record, as FK notes, I don't really want to be buying out his FA years, but that's ordinarily a huge advantage in signing a LT contract with a three-year player, a la Pujols. Further, if he gets hurt or backslides in the three years of your contract, you go on paying him.. That's true with any LT contract, of course, but this is one you don't need to sign at the risk of losing the player: The Mets have Jose locked up through 2009 either way. It's just a question of how much they pay him. You're paying him as a fan. It's not your money. It's not your salary structure. The base you should want to be working off is: What would an arbitrator award him off a projected .311 OBP season in 2006 such as we've projected? 4 Mil is crazy high. 3 mil is crazy high. I think 2 mil is high. Look at Jimmy Rollins for comparison: bbref has him getting paid 2001 Philadelphia Phillies $200,000 2002 Philadelphia Phillies $355,000 2003 Philadelphia Phillies $450,000 2004 Philadelphia Phillies $2,425,000 2005 Philadelphia Phillies $3,850,000 Obviously he made the jump to hyperspace after 2003, at which point he had a lifetime OBP of about .320 (in our projections Jose's will be about .306 after a .311 season in 2006), and a rock-solid durability record. Same position, same a lot of stuff. I'm not sure whether the Phillies signed Rollins to a LT contract or if that's a series of arbitrator's rulings, but that's about his value on the open market. And I think Rollins is comparable to (or better than) Jose based on stats as of now. I might not trade them even up, but that's because I like Jose's future. A Phillies fan would prolly feel very differently. Look at his bbref page and show me where Jose is demonstrably better such that he would reasonably demand and get a higher salary: http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rolliji01.shtml Jimmy Rollins signed a deal for 2005 season worth 3.85M (plus award bonuses) on 1/18/05. In June of 2005 he signed 5year extention worth 40million thru 2010 season. He receives a 5M signing bonus that is payable in installments of 1million in July of each year of the deal. He receives salaries of 4million in 2006, 7million in both 2007 and 2008, and then 7.5million in both 2009 and 2010. The deal includes a Team Option for the 2011 season worth 8.5million or a 2million buyout. Using Rollins as a yardstick to measure by, I do believe Reyes should get 3 million in 2007. The additional 2 years are a risk Id be willing to take to assure he remains a Met during these years that should distinguish him as a bonifide all star calibre player. Which I believe he will be. I could lose my GM job over this, but id take that risk. And yes, its hard keeping my fan sentiments out of the equation.

Valadius wrote: Comments on the poem, anyone? its freakin classic. :):) ]In, boxers! In, blue jeans! In, polos and t-shirts! In, laptop! In, slippers! In, iPod and sweatshirts! To the depths of my suitcase! To the end of the hall! Now roll away! Roll away! Roll away, all!

seawolf17 wrote: You can't handle the truth! Elster, we live in a world that has toes. And those toes have to be guarded by doctors with ointments. Who's gonna do it? You? You, soup? The Mets have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Pedro and you curse the WBC. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that Pedro's toe injury, while tragic, is probably no big deal. And its existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, only hurts a little bit...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Petey on that team. You need him on that team. LMAOOOO. CPF laff of the week 4 me. Im old school. I believe if you dont use it, it might fall off. Im referring of course to Pedros arm.

="Frayed Knot"]"There would be bonuses for things like stolen bases, triples and the usual stuff. " Not legal. Incentives are not allowed for specific outcome-based statistical goals, only appearence-type ones such as ABs, games played, etc., or post-season awards like MVP & CY. This is probly why Im not a GM. lol. then the usual bonuses. ] "I would also factor in that in 2005 i paid him only $332,000 and his performance that yr was a steal for the team, even given the room for improvment." Every player plays his 1st year or two at near minimum wage. There's nothing unique about this w/Reyes to where the club should look to "make up" the difference later on. If I was GM, I would. Not every player sparks a team like Reyes did his 1st full season. Wouldnt make it up to him. I would consider it. Wouldnt have to, but I would. Again, I probly would not make a good G.M. in real life.

Nymr83 wrote: ]He's still a good leadoff hitter and this deal doesn't look to be too long. if the yankees lead him off it will be a poor decision. Derek Jeter is a better leadoff hitter Jeter struck out 117 times last season. Thats alot for a lead off guy. Johnny Kd 68 times. I cant picture Damon w/o his hair and grubby look.

Ive given this some thought. At the top though, let me say strapping him to a .311 OBP and saying he shows small growth in other areas is a tuff projection to work with. It limits where the small growth can occur and ultimately will effect his worth. i was going to type this long break down as to why, but i hate typing. And Im the GM. I shouldnt have to explain in any more detail that this. using the projection, as Mets general manager, Id offer: 3 years at 10.5 on the low and I might go up to 12m. There would be bonuses for things like stolen bases, triples and the usual stuff. As well as his numbers, i would factor in certain intangables, like what he does to make the team go and when the team goes people buy tickets. I would also factor in that in 2005 i paid him only $332,000 and his performance that yr was a steal for the team, even given the room for improvment. If he had the projected year, and then showed even more improvment in 2008, especially in areas like walks, OBP, batting average, and runs scored, i would consider renegotiating an extension (mid season '08 or '09-depends on how much improvment and where as to when I would do this) that would include buying out some of his free agent years. For the consideration of a mid season extension, in 2008 or 2009, I would REALLY like to see: An OBP of .340 or better. (above .355 id throw alot of money at him) A batting average of .290 or better. 50 walks or better. 100 runs scored, or better. Dont forget, this is thinking as a GM. And this all assumes he stays healthy, continues to flourish, and plays complete seasons (150 games or better) As a fan I want to take the ride with Reyes wherever it leads for however long. (by ride, I am refering to as him being the leadoff batter/shortstop for the Mets. If he doesnt live up to that potential, i wont hate the guy, but id sure be disappointed. As a fan I think giving Reyes a nice payday is a risk id be more than willing to take.I want him to grow as a Met)

mmmmmmm. 52? mmmmmmm.

Thats kool beans Val. Are you sure it was his daughter? BADABOOOOOM!

Thank you Mr. Thomas. I knew your place in Met history but never had the chance to be one of your fans. I am now, though

He chose baseball and he still lost his front teeth. Ironic no?

This is a scan I did of the Life magazine inside flap (the ' 69 issue with Koos on the cover.) Dont think Ive ever seen the pic on-line.