seawolf17

I don't like agreeing with Vlad, but I get what he's saying. Interesting numbers analysis from a group calling themselves the Harvard Sports Analysis Collective: http://deadspin.com/5726724/bert-blyleven-got-in-because-hall-of-fame-voters-are-irrational-and-other-revelations

Valadius wrote: The reason Harold Baines dropped off the ballot is entirely due to the backlog of candidates on the ballot and the ten-candidate requirement. Plus there was the whole "the vast majority of voters thought he wasn't a HoFer" thing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Oh, that'll be fun. As a matter of fact, I think "Ollie Tries To Ride X Mode of Transportation With Minimal Training" would be a fantastically entertaining successor to "Profesor Reyes" and the Curly Shuffle. He doesn't have to be on the 40-man roster if he's merely employed for mid-inning antics, does he? Holy hell, that'd be hilarious. "Hey, Ollie! Here's a pogo stick!"

I think the Mets should sign a sponsorship deal with Segway where relievers Segway in from the bullpen, then Terry Segways back to the dugout after the new guy gets there. And they'd have to put an oversized hat on it.

I cheated too. The other one is only obvious because of his longevity, methinks. He's just a compiler, you know.

Something tells me that Johnny "knows a guy" who's going to get a plaque for him in there anyway.

Damion Easley hit 163 fucking home runs?!?! Holy hell.

Edgy DC wrote: I'll say this. If steroids keep Barry Bonds out of the Hall of Fame and (by extension) out of the good graces of baseball history, it'd be a better deterrent than any 50-day suspension. True. I don't usually get all Valadiusy with my definitive statements, but there is no way Bonds or Clemens gets in under the current system, because I'd bet that more than a quarter of the voting population either hates them as people or holds the steroids/lying thing against them.

metirish wrote: Scott Erickson , a Met but not a noted one Nope. We voted; Scott Erickson NEVER HAPPENED, okay? What a weak class of first timers. The next few classes make up for this weak year: 2013: B. Bonds, R. Clemens, S. Sosa, M. Piazza, C. Biggio, C. Schilling, K. Lofton 2014: G. Maddux, T. Glavine, J. Kent, F. Thomas, M. Mussina, L. Gonzalez 2015: R. Johnson, P. Martinez, J. Smoltz, G. Sheffield, N. Garciaparra, C. Delgado Agreed. Yes to Bonds, Sosa, Piazza, Biggio, Maddux, Glavine, Kent, Thomas, Johnson, Pedro, Smoltz. Maybe to Sheffield and Schilling. Fuck no to Clemens. No to Lofton, Mussina, Gonzo, Nomar, Delgado.

I'm probably the biggest (only) Kevin McReynolds backer around here, and it's sad to me that he fell off the table so quickly. If only steroids had been around a few years sooner, he'd be over 300. If you'd asked me, though, who had more career HR between McReynolds and Todd Hundley, I would have said Hundley in a second.

Kevin McReynolds.

G-Fafif wrote: (Check out Jackie's similar batters here -- you'll see a couple of names I'll bet you weren't expecting.) No, I always thought of Jeff Cirillo as a white Jackie Robinson.

Tony Fernandez?

You missed my Torre guess.

"You gotta have a lot of infielders, or you're gonna have a lot of Texas-league singles." - Casey Stengel

Because you didn't follow the rules. Duke Snider?

Torre?

Valadius has broken into HoF headquarters, Watergate-style.

I don't mind hometown voters throwing a token vote to a hometown guy. Sure, it slimes the process a bit, but you know? It's just a game, fellas.

I'm not saying it's solely based on the voting, but public opinion of a player's "fame," if you will, at the time he or she played, should be a piece of the puzzle.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I will also thank the small coterie of Internet zealots who kept calling attention to the value of strikeouts, shutouts, complete games, longevity and durability... Otherwise known as "everyone else in sports journalism this side of Chass." Strikeouts, shutouts, complete games, longevity and durability? Who are the dorks that value these things and why are we letting them ruin baseball? What exactly am I supposed to value again? WINZZZ! WINNERZZZ MAKE WINZZZ! And, apparently, we're supposed to value All-Star teams and Cy Young votes, despite the fact that neither are actually earned by any physical motion on a baseball diamond. I think All-Star teams and Cy Young votes are extremely relevant in the HoF discussion. They're evidence of evidence. Not that how others once viewed the thing at a very particular moment isn't interesting, but I'd rather look at the thing itself. /Keep on Nestin' Problem is, you have to look at context, because whereas the thing is important, context is relevant for sports. You can't ignore the fact that Ozzie Smith won thirteen Gold Gloves and started twelve ASGs at short or whatever; there are situations where the HoF should transcend statistics, both for good and for bad. It's not just about magic numbers.

Valadius wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I will also thank the small coterie of Internet zealots who kept calling attention to the value of strikeouts, shutouts, complete games, longevity and durability... Otherwise known as "everyone else in sports journalism this side of Chass." Strikeouts, shutouts, complete games, longevity and durability? Who are the dorks that value these things and why are we letting them ruin baseball? What exactly am I supposed to value again? WINZZZ! WINNERZZZ MAKE WINZZZ! And, apparently, we're supposed to value All-Star teams and Cy Young votes, despite the fact that neither are actually earned by any physical motion on a baseball diamond. I think All-Star teams and Cy Young votes are extremely relevant in the HoF discussion.

Dave Collins: Stolen Bases 1980 NL 79 (3rd) 1981 NL 26 (4th) 1984 AL 60 (2nd) 1985 AL 29 (10th) Career 395 (73rd)

I expect McReynoldsian numbers as well.

Edgy DC wrote: Picky people these days. Free Tim Raines. So true. Fman99 wrote: How does Trammell get so much less respect than Ozzie Smith? Not enough backflips perhaps? Actually? I think you're right. Ozzie got bonus points for the "fame" part.