metsmarathon

did i say that citi field was not a factor in david wright's 2009 (or jason bay's 2010)? no. if david wright maintained his approach and hit the exact same pitches in 2009 as he hit in 2008 and hit them the exact same way, his home runs would have declined a bit, and his other extra bases would have increased. would the total number of extra base hits have been maintained? i dunno. it would have been close. but he saw a bigger park and changed his approach to something far less optimal. had he maintained the same approach, he would've been fine. based on his spray chart, it looks like he just stopped trying to pull the ball with power, and started hitting the ball the other way. bay is a little harder to figure. he seems to have also let up on pulling the ball, particularly down the line, and has more balls up the middle and some the other way, i think. he gets his hits primarily on pulling the ball, and it looks like he really only pops the ball up hte other way. sometimes he gets a hold of it and it goes out, but usually, if the ball was going to right field in '09, it was for an out. conversely, he has a ton of doubles and singles up the line that he probably yanked over third, and dropped in fiar territory or banged off the wall. if you look at his spray chart in '10, he's got nothing over near the acela club, almost like he didn't want to break any windows or disrupt anybody's dinner. citi field didn't tamp down his production. he did. he could've peppered that part of the field with singles, doubles, and homers, but he aimed for the left field gap instead. and the gap in right as well. had he maintained the same approach in boston, he probably would've been just fine, unless there was something physically wrong with him this year. if it was just the park's doing, you would see similar spray patterns between the years, but there would be a lot more outs in the deep recesses of the outfield where preiviously, you would see homers.

see, that's the thing. i don't care about seeing the 2011 mets reach their home run potential. i care much more about them reaching their win potential. and i think that a home offense that isn't afraid to hit in the big bad scary park combined with a pitching staff that gains confidence from its imposing dimensions is a good thing and a goal that the team should have. let other hitters come to our park and think they can't get shit done. let them press and change their approach. i must say, though, that i do like home run robbing catches. if the fences were lower in center and right, i wouldn't mind it too much. but do we really need to bring them in ten feet to do that? i think the mo's zone is fine. lame name, but i like it. if they modify the walls and fences, i hope the essence of the zone remains.

ordonez got 7 points in '96

reyes huskey matsui

let the other team freak out about how hard it is to knock the ball out of citifield while our guys rack up double after triple after double. unless it's chase utley, who seems really ok with citi's dimensions.

well, he didn't really need to reinvent his swing did he? had he maintained the same exact approach, he would've seen a slight dip in his overall production. instead, he attempted to revamp his approach to try to hit more home runs, or merely to retain his prior home run rate, with the assumption that it would have no negative consequences on any other aspect of his offensive production. this is an especially bad thing for him to have done since one could assume that david's prior approach was nearly optimal given his abilities. i mean, the guy was consistently one of the five or ten most productive hitters in the league. that's pretty optimal. and by changing it to favor one aspect, it clearly affected the rest of his game. its almost too predictable an outcome, really. i don't fault citifield with making david wright a shitty player in '09 and a flawed yet recovering player in '10. i blame david. and also the coaching and support staff for fostering and/or allowing it. imo, the nature of the park was fairly well suited to david to begin with. the guy hits a lot of home runs, but not too many of them are towering drives like ike hits. so if he does lose home runs, he's more likely to see them turn in to extra base hits than outs, as there's less time for outfielders to chase down the liners in the gaps than towering fly balls in the gaps. the wall height hurts, sure, but that becomes an opportunity still. caroms lead to doubles and triples. which leads to more runs scored. it only hurts hte home run totals. again, if david only sees his offensive value in terms of home run numbers, that's his fault, not the stadium's. i like nooks and crannies. i wish they had worked them in more organically, but on the whole i'm fine with it. the baseball stadium lacking arbitrary dimensions is truly rare. really, i think fenway is about the only one, or the only one left standing. every other facet and feature of a stadium is there because someone arbitrarily decided it would either be more interesting (or just cheaper to build) that way.

from a roster-building standpoint, wouldn't it be wise to?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: He may just be worth Holliday money. going into their respective offseasons, werth's worth is more bay than holliday.

hmm. in '01 he got the silver slugger at 3rd base, with 52 starts there vs. 78 in the outfield. phil nevin (7.4) and chipper jones (7.2) were the better 3bmen that year, while in the outfield, you've got bonds (13.0), sosa (10.8), luis gonzalez (7.1), and shawn green (6.7) ahead of the prince (6.4). the outfield silver sluggers all went to the roidful three. (i'm looking at bbref's oWAR here - other metrics might differ on the thirdbasemen, but are pretty consistent with the outfielders) in '02, he mostly played in the outfield, with 101 starts there vs. 37 at third. barry bonds (11.9 oWAR) was clearly the best hitting outfielder, followed far behind by brian giles (6.8 oWAR). then there's a virtual four-way tie outfielders with edmonds (6.3), pujols (6.2), and guerrero & sosa (6.1). bonds, sosa, and vlad won the award. in '03, albert (9.5) was the best hitter in the NL, with bonds (9.1) second, and took home an award. in '04, he moved to first base full-time, and took second (7.9) to bonds (12.1), but got the silver slugger. in '05, he was again the best hitter in the NL (7.2), while silver slugger derrek lee (6.0) was third overall, and the second-best first baseman. (btw, david wright was the best third baseman, 5.8 to silver slugger morgan ensberg's 5.2) in '06, pujols (7.0) was the third best hitter in the NL, and lost to the 4th best hitter, ryan howard (5.8), but it wasn't really that close was it? in '07, pujols (5.8) was only the 4th best hitter in the NL, but still the tops at his position. with second place, prince fielder (5.0) took home the award, and was 10th overall in the league. david wright (7.4), #1 in '08, pujols (7.8) was the best hitter in teh NL. david wright (7.2), third. in '09, pujols (7.8) topped the league. we all know what happened to david. (well, actually, we really don't. but his year sucked, relatively speaking. while he was still the 14th best hitter in the league, that's only 4th best at his positon.) in '10, pujols (7.4) won his 4th silver slugger at first base, once again the best batter in the senior circuit. he should have 7, to go along with his outfielding one. but he didn't really deserve his first. so it cuts both ways.

how has albert pujols not won ten of these? oe: make that nine. in 2002, he was playing left field. i think barry bonds might've had a better year at the bat that year...

metsmarathon wrote: gold gloves are very much an offensive award.

gold gloves are very much an offensive award.

tex and cano have decidedly mediocre UZRs, per fangraphs. jeter's is not good, but still slightly ahead of jose's. top UZRs belong to the following al'ers: 1b daric barton 12.7 | lyle overbay 0.1 | 5 of 8 mark teixiera -2.9 2b mark ellis 9.8 | orlando hudson 9.7 | 5 of 8 robinson cano -0.6 ss alexei ramirez 10.8 | cliff pennington 9.9 | 7 of 9 derek jeter -4.7 3b kevin kouzmanoff 16.1 | adrian beltre 11.8 | 3 of 8 evan longoria 11.1 rf ichiro suzuki 15.6 | j.d. drew 3.8 cf julio borbon 8.9 | franklin gutierrez 7.3 lf brett gardner 22.3 | carl crawford 18.5 well, the voters did better in the outfield at least...

maybe the wilpons are zombies, and are getting all the tastiest brains lined up. braaaaaaaiiiinnsss.....

Farmer Ted wrote: I'm still stuck on Billy Beane and his Moneyball theory about stolen bases, essentially the SB is too risky and should never be attempted. If Sandy is also an advocate of this style, it doesn't bode well for Wally who would likely implore an aggressive style on the basepaths. is billy beane still with the a's? because this past year, rajai davis had 50 steals in 61 tries, coco crisp had 32 steals in 35 tries, and cliff pennington had 29 steals in 34 tries. overall, they were 3rd in the al with 156 steals in 194 attempts, good for a 80.4% success rate. the stolen base is generally considered to be counterproductive below a 75% success rate or so. i believe the moneyball teams eschewed the stolen base because at the time, getting people on base and slugging three run homers was the more cost-effective route to success in that obp was undervalued relative to other factors. plus, scouts love fast, toolsy guys, and not fat slow guys who get on base. the moneyball teams didn't steal bases because they weren't built to, not because billy bean had a fundamental opposition to the stolen base, i believe.

How Will Sandy/the Mets Go on These Ten Offseason Decisions 1. Who will manage? melvin 2. Who will be replaced on the coaching staff? Everybody? all but hale 3. Will the secondbaseman be an internal guy or will they look outside? external 4. Beltran in center or right on opening day? right 5. Will Reyes be extended or traded or will they allow him to play out his walk year. he'll be a met through the year, and will probably be extended before its over. i think that's more of a "play out" than an "extended" vote 6. Will Oliver Perez be shed? yes 7. Will this jet set scene continue, or will he be a regular in Flushing? flushing regular 8. Francisco Rodriguez? traded 9. Which of these semi-ripe guys gets a big opportunity out of camp: a) Lucas Duda? no Fernando Martinez? yes c) Dillon Gee yes d) Jenrry Mejia no e) Tejada? no 10. Who plays Santa? dickey

Ashie62 wrote: Mets have picked up Reye's option for 2011 but won't talk extension now. Reye's per his agent, will not talk extension during the season. Wouldn't this suggest a Reye's trade before 2011 season ends? only if they don't intend on bringing him back for 2012.

i wonder how many mets fans are hoping to learn that oliver perez is somehow involved?

Ashie62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: He's put up three of them. Out of how many? Do really believe he can get an extension averaging 15 million now? I don't see it. i think it's totally meaningful that it took him until he was 23 to show that he was a star.

per fangraphs: [table:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]year[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]WAR[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]value[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2006[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]5.7[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]$21.1M[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2007[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]5.5[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]$22.7M[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2008[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]6.0[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]$27.2M[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2009[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]0.9[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]$3.9M[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][tr:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2010[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]2.8[/td:11kwsvod][td:11kwsvod]$11.1M[/td:11kwsvod][/tr:11kwsvod][/table:11kwsvod] i don't think he'll be overpaid at 11 mil if he's fairly healthy next year. and he's still got the potential to be significantly underpaid relative to his production. granted, i'm not sure how much i buy into the WAR-equivalent salary thing, but it's still something to look at. (its not that i think it's total bullshit, its just that i think that its a much more complicated dynamic than the method they are using to approximate it.)

Benjamin Grimm wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: So what'll happen if this award winner is not the same as the Schaefer Met Pitcher of the Year? Rioting in the streets, I assume. a general understanding that the two measure similar, but different things? rioting would be cool, too.

so the worst hitting champion since 1985 was the '85 royals. the worst pitching champion was the '06 cards. i think. for some reason, the red sox, philly and twins pages on bbref are blocked at work. very curious... regardless, here's the breakdown, ranked from best champion to worst. [table:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]Team[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]B8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]Btot[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]P6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]Ptot[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]Ttot[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]98 NYY[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]7.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]37.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]19.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]57.5[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]02 ANA[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]36.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]14.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]50.3[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]86 NYM[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]29.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]20.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]50[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]09 MFY[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]34.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]15[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]49.9[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]93 TOR[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]8.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]32.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]13.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]45.5[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]92 TOR[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]27.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]45.3[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]01 ARI[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]7.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]18.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]8.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]7.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]23.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]42.2[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]89 OAK[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]24.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]42[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]99 NYY[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]22.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]18.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]41.1[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]96 NYY[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]23.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]41[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]05 CHW[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]23.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]40.9[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]90 CIN[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]18[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]22.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]40.8[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]10 SFG[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]21.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]39.6[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]03 FLA[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]22.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]39.3[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]00 NYY[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]22[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]39.3[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]88 LAD[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]7.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]21[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]7.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]18.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]39.2[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]85 KCR[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]14.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]24.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]38.8[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]06 STL[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]8.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]22.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.9[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]9.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]32.4[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]97 FLA[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]4.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]2.5[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.3[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.2[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]17.8[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]6.4[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]3.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.6[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]1.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0.7[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]14.1[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]31.9[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]91 MIN[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]87 MIN[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]0[/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]08 PHI[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]07 BOS[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][tr:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur]04 BOS[/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][td:2o3137ur][/td:2o3137ur][/tr:2o3137ur][/table:2o3137ur] i would not have expected the angels to be so strong...

MFS62 wrote: Probably one of the worst teams of this generation to win a world championship. i did a little quick looking around. looked at hte past decade. one team jumped out at me as a condidate. the 05 white sox. they had a terrible offense. but their pitching was pretty good. then i did a little more looking. found a worse team. it might surprise you. sadden you, even. i looked at the top 8 hitters and top 6 pitchers in terms of WAR, per bbref's stats. it was pretty close, actually. but the giants are not the worst team to have won a world series this generation. possibly this decade, but not this generation. the '00 mfy were worse. actually, they were worse than our mets, per my metric. by one WAR. damned timo perez... 10 SFGWAR05 CHWWAR00 NYYWARB1huff5.9konerko3.5posada5.7B2torres4.5rowand3.1williams5B3burrell3iguchi2.6jeter4.4B4posey3uribe2.4justice3.2B5uribe2crede2hill1.4B6sanchez1.5dye1.6o'neill1.2B7renteria1pierzynski1.4spencer0.8B8sandoval0.8podsednik1.2ledee0.3P1cain3.9buehrle5.4clemens4.7P2lincecum3.5garland5pettitte3.3P3sanchez3.4garcia4hernandez3P4wilson3.3contreras3.9rivera2.9P5bumgarner2.2politte2.6nelson2P6casilla1.6hermanson2.2mendoza1.410 SFG39.605 CHW40.900 NYY39.3 mind you, there could be a partial season in there bumping some numbers around. these are the WAR contributions for these players, for the world series champion, in that year. bottom line. the yankees suck.

anybody else have interest in brandon webb? i do. incentive laden with a low floor, but definitely interest. hiroki kuroda interests me as well.

bobby bonilla