TransMonk

="AG/DC":3n25rbvz]Lost games oft lead to throwing hunks of meat at the relievers who threw scoreless innings that the offense didn't take advantage of, but closers are almost always only eligible in victories where they are competing with other fine performances.[/quote:3n25rbvz] Ding, ding. Look at the last 2 night's POTG voting. Relievers are getting suds for not letting the game get further out of hand. Those are votes that Wagner can never get. I can't bring myself to give Schaefer in losses...this problem being just one of the reasons. themetfairy May 07 2008 10:25 AM ]TransMonk Ding, ding. Look at the last 2 night's POTG voting. Relievers are getting suds for not letting the game get further out of hand. Those are votes that Wagner can never get. On the other hands, middle relievers who pitch well in games where a lot of runs score tend to get left out of the suds. So if they get a little more recognition in games where the offense is lacking, I'm fine with that. There are plenty of quirks in the system. The other day Reyes almost hit for the cycle, but there was so much offense all around that there wasn't much beer to give him. Guys who shine in games where everyone else lies down on the job will tend to get more recognition than those who do well when everyone is contributing. Willets Point May 07 2008 10:34 AM I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. If Wagner did the Jamesian thing and came in during tough situations regardless of inning he'd get more points (or not, if he sucked at it). Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 11:08 AM ="Willets Point":2psv2sa2]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:2psv2sa2] That's how I see it too. Sure, if he retires Rollins, Utley, and Howard in a one-run game, then I'd give him a full point, or more. But if it's the 7th and 8th-place hitters, followed by some no-name pinch hitter in a game when the Mets have a three-run lead, that's a whole nother story. AG/DC May 07 2008 11:13 AM Well, it's worth noting that, just as managers save their best pitcher for the ninth no matter what the score, they oft save their best hitters for the ninth, and they almost never face a bad one. Frayed Knot May 07 2008 12:38 PM ="Willets Point":30rr8469]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:30rr8469] And that's fine, except that at times the guys getting three outs by coming in at the top of the 7th of 8th ARE being rewarded for the same thing we seem to think is routine in the 9th - and I think it's because the expectations factor comes in to play. It would be a bit like rewarding - oh let's say Schneider - more for a 2 HR game than Delgado on the same day (all other things being equal) based on the logic that 'it's what we pay Delgado for' while from Schneider it's unexpected. metsmarathon May 07 2008 03:30 PM wagner is screwed by the fact that he usually only performs in wins. his performances are always normalized and derated due to the increased performances by his peers. in wins, there simply isnt enough schaeffer to go around. in losses, which wagner does not participate in often unless they are by his own hand, a lesser performance is often rewarded by greater beering. for nearly every other player, this effect should balance out. for wagner, it cannot. i think, too, that for teh same reason that we would give wagner more points for a one run save than a two run save - that there is less of a safety net - we should award more points for pitching hte ninth inning than the eighth. if, in his next start, nelson figueroa goes out, pitches a perfect first inning, and leaves the game due to an extended rain delay, the game gets to the eighth inning tied 0-0, wherein duaner sanchez throws a perfect inning, followed by the mets plating a run in the bottom of the eighth, and wagner ices it with a perfect ninth, which of the three pitchers would get the most schaeffer? i'll tell you right now, it wouldn't be nelson. take the same game, and switch it up. lets say it gets to the eigth, and sanchez gives up a run - a perfect inning aside from one measley home run over the center field fence. but the mets score two runs in the bottom of the eighth, and in comes wagner. he, too, pitches a perfect inning, save, of course, for a home run over the center field fence. did one home run affect the outcome of the game more than the other? if we were giving out negative schaeffer points, would more go to sanchez, or to wagner? Frayed Knot May 07 2008 05:11 PM ="Triple Dee":3bof42r3]I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.[/quote:3bof42r3] It's possible that was m.e.t.b.o.t. - he occasionally dips a bit heavy into the 40 weight oil. metsmarathon May 07 2008 06:54 PM nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else. seawolf17 May 07 2008 07:19 PM It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game. *62 May 07 2008 07:55 PM When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out. themetfairy May 07 2008 08:01 PM Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration. Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 09:24 PM Let's try this again... SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008 The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi. The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1. And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games. Month-to-date totals for April 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 RankNamePoints1David Wright18.782Ryan Church17.593Johan Santana17.314Carlos Beltran12.905Jos� Reyes12.216Angel Pagan11.737John Maine11.098Nelson Figueroa10.759Carlos Delgado9.9410Oliver Perez9.7711Mike Pelfrey7.6912Billy Wagner7.6313Aaron Heilman6.4514Jorge Sosa6.4215Luis Castillo6.0316Brian Schneider6.0117Joe Smith5.4218Damion Easley4.6319Raul Casanova4.4420Duaner Sanchez4.0221Pedro Feliciano3.7922Scott Schoeneweis3.5623Endy Chavez1.8623Carlos Muniz1.8625Marlon Anderson1.1326Brady Clark0.7027Pedro Martinez0.0428Gustavo Molina0.02 Season-to-date totals for 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 RankNamePoints1Johan Santana21.722David Wright21.093Ryan Church17.834Carlos Beltran13.895Jos� Reyes12.916Angel Pagan12.247John Maine11.098Nelson Figueroa10.759Carlos Delgado9.9410Oliver Perez9.7711Mike Pelfrey7.6912Billy Wagner7.6313Aaron Heilman6.7514Jorge Sosa6.6515Luis Castillo6.1916Brian Schneider6.0317Joe Smith5.4218Damion Easley4.6319Raul Casanova4.4420Duaner Sanchez4.0221Pedro Feliciano3.7922Scott Schoeneweis3.6623Endy Chavez1.8623Carlos Muniz1.8625Marlon Anderson1.1726Brady Clark0.7027Pedro Martinez0.0428Gustavo Molina0.02

Cy Young Chi Kuo. This team has been pretty rotten in LA so far this week.

Schneider throws out a baserunner! One last chance for this uninspiring offense.

http://www.dodgerblues.com/ Still one of my favorite Dodger sites from the way back machine. Their forum looks oddly familiar.

7 LOB My, oh, my.

Pitching Change Update: Philly is clobbering the D'bags 9-2 in the only other NL East action tonight.

The DP was nice. Time for the big inning, offense.

If nothing else, Perez is getting his exercise covering first today.

Ugh...game getting away in a hurry.

Third time's a charm, David. Go get 'em.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The Schneid has had three separate injuries. He's a big disappointment so far. He's still been more productive than our top 3 other options (Castro, LoDuca and Estrada).

C'mon offense, RISP are your friends.

Billy Wagner couldn't have made that play. Damn!

Scully is the man.

How could you confuse this with Maxim?

Klapich wrote: One person familiar with the thinking of owners Fred and Jeff Wilpon... That's one hell of an ambiguous source.

I'm in for the long haul. Been a while since I've taken in a West coast night game. Hopefully Scully is announcing.

Frayed Knot wrote: Be interesting also to see how the DBacks fare after this is all over. They follow the Mets and Phils series with 3 agin the Cubs next weekend. I saw the graphic yesterday on TBS that the D'bags are [now] 4-6 against teams not playing in the NL West. They may have the best overall record, but it's a long season. Best teams in NL through May 1st: 2007: Milwaukee - Did not make playoffs 2006: Reds (yup, the Reds) - Did not make playoffs 2005: Dodgers - Did not make playoffs 2004: Padres - Did not make playoffs

Ironic Prediction for 5/5/08: Ollie throws 8 innings of shutout ball...the Mets lead 3-0 in the ninth...Wags blows the save...Perez keeps his mouth shut.

Sweet!!! Delgado!!! KABOOM!!!

Maybe August 11th will be a game that Pedro and Moises both start.

KC wrote: Giving him that contract was the stupidest thing ever. No one knew he would have such an Ankielian reversal. His contract was big but not out of comprehension. There's no way he still doesn't have top half of the rotation talent. Whoever their pitching coach is (Righetti?) must be a moron. But now that he is what he is, I have no clue how going to the bullpen is going to remotely help the situation. If he's hurt, then DL him. If his head's not right, get a shrink. The fans in the bay area seem to hate him anyway and even with Zito at ace strength they are a sub .500 team, IMO.

That's the stupidest thing ever. This is beyond an ace being down.

Figueroa 1 Wagner 1 Church 1 Castillo 2 Delgado 3 Reyes 1 Feliciano 1

Maine 3 Schoeneweis 1 Wagner 1 Wright 2 Church 1 Easley 1 Beltran 1