Centerfield

I have absolutely no memory of Valenzuela pitching in the 1990s, much less 1997. I think I would have lost a significant amount of money if someone made me bet.

No to Keith. Probably no to Wright. For me, it's probably something closer to what the criteria used to be for Mets retired numbers. I would say: 1. No-brainer to have his number retired 2. Hall of Famer 3. Clearly associated with the Mets over any other team Seaver fits this bill. Piazza no, because of the significant time with the Dodgers. Beltran no, again because he moved around so much. Wright no, he won't make the Hall of Fame. Jacob deGrom might one day meet this criteria, but he also doesn't feel like a statue guy to me.

Edgy MD wrote: Related Question: Who should the Dark Horse Met Award be named for? José Valentin? Benny Agbayani? I think Jose Valentin captures the spirit of the Dark Horse as well as anyone. He's the one that comes to mind for me. Some others off the top of my head. 1987: Terry Leach 1999: Benny Agbayani 2000: Timo Perez 2006: Jose Valentin 2008: Fernando Tatis Sr. 2010: RA Dickey 2014: Jacob deGrom deGrom is maybe the most controversial one. Typically prospects don't qualify as Dark Horse candidates, but I feel like deGrom was so far off the radar. I think he was around 10-15 on most prospect lists. I think I follow prospects a lot more now than I did then, but I didn't really know anything about him until he was called up.

What would constitute statue criteria? Mike played 8 seasons with the Mets. Career OPS of .915. His lowest OPS in any single season was .778. 2003 was the only year he missed significant time. Five time All-Star (should have been 6). Hall of Famer. I'm not saying this is enough. Asking where the line is.

I think we know how this ends up, but let's make it official. As a reminder, here are the criteria for Dark Horse Mets: 1. Not reasonably expected to contribute this year. No projected starters. No big name free agents coming off a down year. So someone like Luis Severino would not qualify. Has to be someone we expect to be a fringe guy. 2. Can't be a premiere prospect (or at least, no longer one). No Drew Gilbert, Acuna, Clifford, etc. However, if Gavin Cecchini were to somehow resurface and make a contribution, he would qualify. 3. The type of player if he were hurt/released/traded prior to the season you wouldn't care. Jose Iglesias fits that bill. If he tore his ACL in spring training no one would have lost any sleep. If that happened to Mark Vientos, we'd have been upset. Voting will stay open for 10 days! The winner will be declared Dark Horse Met 2024 and will be forever cherished in Mets history!

=Gwreck post_id=177310 time=1729632001 user_id=56] =Centerfield post_id=177301 time=1729622460 user_id=65]He'll be 33 in April of 2025 and on last year of his contract, and by then 3 years removed from his batting title.

Jeff McNeil. First Half 323 PA. .591 OPS. 5 HR Second Half 129 PA .923 OPS 7 HR His second half BA was .289. So even the good McNeil didn't quite get up above .300. In fact, he never got his average over .300 for any month in 2024. He'll be 33 in April of 2025 and on last year of his contract, and by then 3 years removed from his batting title.

=Cowtipper post_id=177278 time=1729605761 user_id=166] Metrics are cute, but a closer's job is to save victories, and blowing the 4th-most saves is losing victories. All sorts of mental gymnastics can be made to make him look good, but when you distill it down, he is not a good closer. A closer's job is to close. If a save is blown, closing did not happen. Diaz has been among the most proficient at making sure closing does not happen. Which means he is bad at his job and should be removed from his job. If FIP is what you're interested in, then make him a middle reliever. Not a closer.

He's arbitration eligible. Spotrac estimates him at $6MM next year. I wonder if this makes him a non-tender candidate. I was unimpressed by Blackburn. Not even sure he's a fifth starter. 5.18 ERA as a Met. 1.562 WHIP. None of his stuff seemed impressive at all. I'd be fine to let him walk and find a reclamation project with more upside.

Cohen quit his day job to focus on the Mets. I don't know if I'm being naive here but if he decides he wants Soto, I can't imagine he won't extend the type of offer that other teams won't touch. Bobby Ax wouldn't lose him to Hal Steinbrenner. Also. Gotta figure it's in Boras's best interest to keep Cohen happy too.

Boras is his agent. Which doesn't guarantee anything, but at least suggests he's willing to consider the highest bidder. The Mets need to be that highest bidder. Not match, not be in the mix, but be the highest bidder. Consider the impact bats these other teams have. Top 25 MLB OPS Leaders for 2024 Yankees Judge #1, Soto #3 Dodgers Ohtani #2. Betts #15, Freeman #16, Teoscar #21 Phillies Harper #10. Schwarber #17 Braves Ozuna #9. (Acuna was injured, but his career .904 OPS would have been #10, Riley, Albies and Harris all lacked enough ABs to qualify) Padres Profar #21, Merril #25 (Tatis didn't have enough ABs, but would have been #23, The Mets had one guy in the top 25. Francisco Lindor. #19.

Lefty Specialist wrote: Thinking about it on the morning after, it was a great season. I won't quibble about the end. Yeah, sure, if a couple of breaks went a different way, they might be playing tonight. Or if the breaks went the other way, Francisco Lindor's grand slam could have been a long fly ball to the warning track. That's baseball, Suzyn. I predicted at the start of the year this team would lose 92 games. I was unimpressed with the starters especially after Senga went down. I saw the bullpen as a dumpster fire. The hitting wasn't so great. And for the first 59 games, they were proving me right at 24-35. I was resigned to another empty summer of meaningless games. But they caught fire; whether it was Grimace, OMG, throwing a glove into the stands, a team meeting, bringing up Vientos, Manaea changing his pitching style, Peterson getting healthy, finding the right spot on the couch, whatever, it worked. Sure surprised the shit out of me. AND IT WAS FUN! They won 101 games in 2022 and it wasn't nearly as much fun. Buck Showalter kind of outlawed fun, I think. Most seasons we look back in anger at all the games they could have won but didn't because of a bad bullpen or a stupid baserunning play or a costly error. We don't have to do that this year!!!! They wound up exactly where they needed to be! They beat the Brewers, They beat the goddamn Phillies, and they gave the Dodgers a run for their money in the NL-friggin-CS. There isn't a person on this board that wouldn't have signed up for that in late March. And the best part? Now Kamala can win. If it's ok with you guys, I figured I'd start a new thread. I love this wrap-up. Agree with all of it. I maybe was a little more optimistic at the start of the season, but I was definitely convinced a few times in August/September we would choke it all away. I can't believe we went as far as we did with that makeshift bullpen. It will be interesting to see where we go from here, and how we'll look back on 2024 in the future. I'd like to think that this is the year that Cohen's ownership hit its stride and we finally became a well-run organization. I don't think any of us realized how big the Madoff story was when it hit, but in hindsight, it was the start of a 12 year period where the Mets had 10 losing seasons. Just torture for an already scarred fan base. But it makes sense. At least the pre-Madoff Wilpons spent money. What could we expect from owners that are both stupid and broke. But now I feel like we have good leadership to match Cohen's money. Broke and stupid has been replaced by rich and smart. I have no idea if the Mets will win a World Series anytime soon, but I'd be surprised if we didn't make the playoffs something like four out of the next five years. It's a different era for us.

=whippoorwill post_id=177215 time=1729534286 user_id=79] Mr Met is okay but Mrs Met can go

Certainly yes, it's best to stockpile as much talent as possible. But given the year he's had, he's certainly going to want a guaranteed contract. And with the crowded situation the Mets already have with backup infielders, I'm not sure they'll be in a position to give him one. I think this is moot anyway. He just hit .337, with an .830 OPS and outstanding defense. I'm guessing he'll be certainly looking for a chance to start and more money than the Mets are willing to give him. Which, if that's the case, I'm fine to let him walk. It's great to catch lightning in a bottle. But as you suggest, I think these Dark Horse guys tend to have a bad track record of replicating their performances.

Looking forward to this.

Lefty Specialist wrote: They needed a Tommy Edman, someone who played way over his head, and they didn't have one in this series. That's just plain ol' luck. Every team has a Tommy Edman. Any major leaguer other than Rey Ordonez or Doug Flynn could get red-hot for a six game stretch and hit out of his mind like that. It could've just the same, been Jose Iglesias (who was doing just that during the season), or Tyrone Taylor. Or any Met. It was just randomness. Do you think it was pre-ordained that Donn Clendenon would hit three HR's in four WS games? And that he would continue to hit three HR's for every four WS games that he'd get to play if he was lucky enough to play more WS games? Of course not. He just happened to get hot, and lucky, during those games. It's something we fans can never get comfortable with. Just dumb luck having such an impact. Look at the injuries. The Mets were super lucky this year to stay relatively healthy. One bad injury in August to say Nimmo or Vientos, and the Mets miss the post-season. On the other hand, if Luke Raley had stayed healthy, maybe we win it all.

My predictions. Jose Quintana. GONE Pete Alonso. GONE. Unfortunately. Similar to BG, I think someone will pay him more than Stearns is comfortable shelling out. Sean Manaea. Back. On a 3 year deal. Luis Severino. GONE J.D. Martinez. GONE Harrison Bader. GONE Phil Maton. GONE, though I can see him coming back for less than his option. Adam Ottavino. GONE Ryne Stanek. GONE Drew Smith. GONE Jesse Winker. GONE Jose Iglesias. GONE

Regarding Iglesias, assuming he'd even be open to a utility/part-time role, I don't know if you necessarily have room for him. Assume that there are 13 position players. C: Alvarez. 1B: Alonso (or someone to replace him) 2B: McNeil 3B: Vientos SS: Lindor RF: Soto (or another impact bat) LF: Nimmo CF: Taylor DH: Marte That's 9 starters. Assume that Torrens is your backup catcher, and you have some sort of 4th OF (Bader-type/Winker etc). That leaves two bench positions for Acuna, Baty, Mauricio. Maybe Jett Williams will be ready sometime in 2025. I think you'd want that backup utility infielder to be someone willing to start the season at AAA. Meaning, we're probably looking for 2024 Iglesias, and not 2025 Iglesias.

Can we sign him by Friday? I'd be down with that.

Hard to believe this crazy run. The way it fizzled to an end made the end a little less difficult. Usually it takes a little time after a loss to appreciate the overall season. Not tonight. Great job guys.

Ok. Lots of good pieces of the team are in place. Cohen has shown restraint letting some big fish pass. But now is the time. Get Juan Soto. The Mets need a guy like him. The Dodgers have Ohtani. The Braves have Acuna. The Phillies have Harper. Gotta get Soto. Whatever it takes. Make him an offer he can't refuse.

In hindsight. Maybe pitching a guy who was out all year wasn't the right move.

None of his sweepers are strikes. Must be impossible to pick up.

Make it close guys. At least go down fighting.

Awful decision. Where have I seen that before. Especially with Ohtani coming up