FAKE NEWS - Payroll 2018

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

What's always been reported about the Wilpons is that they give Sandy/Omar/Phillips/whomever a figure but say they are open to hearing a case for it being outside of that range. Whether the range is acceptable is one thing, and breaking the bank for a top of the market FA is unlikely under this way of doing biz, I do believe it's true in a general sense that there's no hard ceiling, just hard sells.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What's always been reported about the Wilpons is that they give Sandy/Omar/Phillips/whomever a figure but say they are open to hearing a case for it being outside of that range. Whether the range is acceptable is one thing, and breaking the bank for a top of the market FA is unlikely under this way of doing biz, I do believe it's true in a general sense that there's no hard ceiling, just hard sells.

that's how I've understood it too. I've also heard it said that pretty much every GM has to run those huge signings past the owner.

I'm trying to think who would be the 'break the bank' guy in terms of free agency this year. Darvish? He might be a hard sell with so many starters to deal with already.

[nymr83]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What's always been reported about the Wilpons is that they give Sandy/Omar/Phillips/whomever a figure but say they are open to hearing a case for it being outside of that range. Whether the range is acceptable is one thing, and breaking the bank for a top of the market FA is unlikely under this way of doing biz, I do believe it's true in a general sense that there's no hard ceiling, just hard sells. that's how I've understood it too. I've also heard it said that pretty much every GM has to run those huge signings past the owner. I'm trying to think who would be the 'break the bank' guy in terms of free agency this year. Darvish? He might be a hard sell with so many starters to deal with already.

maybe there isn't one and Sandy is too smart to go sign us a Jason Bay. he'll patch holes and wait for Machado next year.

[Centerfield]

Yesterday afternoon on twitter, the SNY guys were like "tune into Baseball Night in New York, we are going to have an in-depth discussion on payroll, McCutchen, etc"

So I decided to tune in. I mean, if they explicitly say they are going to discuss payroll, they have to address it right? My takeaway is that they are basically Wilpon spokesmen. We talked about it when SNY was created. Would the on-air personalities maintain their objectivity or would they become propaganda men, like YES. I don't think it's quite at that level, but my feeling is that the SNY guys have free reign to criticize every aspect of the Mets organization, except for the owners.

The talking points last night:

*It's hard to discuss payroll. There is no set number. Sandy is given a range, but then has the ability to go back and get permission in the event they reach a good deal. So the lack of spending is more a function of the market and there not being a great fit, rather than anything on the part of the Mets.

*None of the teams are spending, so why so much focus on the Mets? Anthony McCarron did say some of the criticism was justified by Sandy putting out implications that payroll would drop. But is that just Sandy being weird? Then there was discussion about how quirky he is and how he operates.

*The panel, and Andy Martino in particular, stressed the poor quality of the farm system. I think Martino said something along the lines of "the FAR BIGGER problem, is the lack of blue chips in the farm system". I think this is the line of thinking Wilpons have decided to push. Basically, they can't ignore the criticism any longer and so they need to change the discussion. "Pivot" as 41Forever would call it. "Hey, we know we aren't doing dick, but you know why? It's because Sandy drafted poorly. So don't look at us." The talking heads have been instructed to throw Sandy under the bus to take some of the heat off of them.

*The Mets are in on McCutchen, monitoring Moustakas, Frazier. Still time to do lots of damage this offseason.

My reactions:

*Points 1, 2 and 3 are complete bullshit. Any feigned objectivity is gone in my book. They are not allowed to say "Wilpon". No criticism.

*Any payroll discussion that doesn't start by asking why the "range" is so stupid low to begin with has no merit. Even the other day, after John Harper's article, during his TV segment, he never uttered that thought, never said Wilpon, and only focused on the Sandy/drafting part of his article.

*I agree that Sandy has drafted poorly. I've said it many times. But that is not the "far bigger" reason. I think it definitely is a factor, but drafting well is hard. I know he definitely tried to draft well, but it's not like the NBA. On the other hand, spending money is easy. Having a big market payroll is a conscious decision. No excuse not to spend.

*The discussion about Moustakas and Frazier included qualifiers like "they're not really an Alderson type of player". And they're not. But when they miss on them, you can guess this will be the line of reasoning floated to justify this. There was no discussion at all about why the Mets are not in on the top of the market, rather than the flawed guys in the tier below.

*The "back after this" showed clips of Carlos Gonzalez, at which point I figured it was time to change the channel.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think the Wilpons are pushing a narrative that the farm system sucks.

[Centerfield]

I disagree. I think they will do anything to take the heat off. Even throw their own GM under the bus.

[Edgy MD]

That wouldn't and doesn't take the heat off.

[Centerfield]

In their minds it does. Andy Martino said “the far bigger problem is the lack of prospects in the farm system.” It deflects focus onto something else. It provides another person to blame. And there are compromised journalists happy to promote the idea and a few fans dumb enough to fall for it.

Look, it’s not something I can prove but it’s a pretty big coincidence that the SNY and Daily News guys are all focusing on that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't think the Daily News writers feel constrained in any way. Maybe while they're on SNY, but not when they're writing for the News.

The lack of prospects is definitely a problem, though hopefully a short-term one. David Lennon said on Thursday's Mets Hot Stove that the Nationals have four of the Top 100 (I don't recall whose list he was referencing) and the Phillies have six and the Braves have seven, while the Mets and Marlins each have zero.

[Centerfield]

Harper is the most outspoken of the DN writers but as you mention when he was on SNY he completely neglected the payroll part of his article and focused only on the poor farm system. It was clear he was holding back.

Kristie Ackert is basically invisible. She won’t touch the topic and has been MIA throughout this. Her articles read like spin directly from Wilpon PR.

[Edgy MD]

I can't speak to their minds, but such a strategy has 0% chance of providing any coverage to anybody.

>>> "Why don't you spend any money?"

>>> >>> "Look, we can't make any trades because our GM has built a terrible farm system."

>>> "OK, why don't you spend any money and why did you just re-sign your GM?"

If it's a story that's been repeated, well, stories work that way, and it tends to happen.

[Zvon]

Centerfield wrote: In their minds it does. Andy Martino said “the far bigger problem is the lack of prospects in the farm system.” It deflects focus onto something else. It provides another person to blame. And there are compromised journalists happy to promote the idea and a few fans dumb enough to fall for it. Look, it’s not something I can prove but it’s a pretty big coincidence that the SNY and Daily News guys are all focusing on that.

Bingo, bongo, swish!

That's a big problem with these owners. Their minds.
sarcasm meter off [\ ]
The deflecting focus/blame part rings true to me. While on SNY they think that is part of their job description/responsibilities.

[nymr83]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22004988/jenrry-mejia-new-york-mets-agree-contract-formality-ban

I assume the Wilpons are counting this, along with the portion of Wright's contract covered by insurance, towards the payroll limit.

[Edgy MD]

Since payrolls are reported by non-stupid third parties, I'll guess not.

[Centerfield]

Not that we are anywhere close but I would guess that counts for the luxury tax right?

[Edgy MD]

It certainly will if he plays, and something in me suggests he will.

[Centerfield]

The "Are you happy now?" questions are annoying.

No, I'm not happy. I want the Mets to spend like a big market team. A three year deal to a middling player being the marquee move of the winter does not qualify as that. I'll be happy when they have the financial capability and willingness to field a championship level team.

[Centerfield]

Alderson said today that the Mets have the ability to sign an infielder to a significant contract.

That's encouraging.

[Centerfield]

Interesting development today in that it was announced that Marc Carig is leaving Newsday to join the Yankees beat for the Athletic. The Athletic is the subscription online site that Ken Rosenthal writes for. Rumblings are that this offer was extended during the Winter Meetings. Carig's article came afterwards.

So basically, after years of being silent on the topic, he blew the lid off the doors when he knew he was on his way out.

It really makes you think that there is something in play suppressing this NY media.

[nymr83]

Or some asshat goinf to cover the yankees who wants to take a cheap shot at the Mets on the way out. This lessens the credibility to me.

[MFS62]

Nymr83 wrote: Or some asshat goinf to cover the yankees who wants to take a cheap shot at the Mets on the way out. This lessens the credibility to me.

Asshat gonif, A totally appropriate confluence of cultures that perfectly describes most MFY writers.
A keeper.

Later

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: Interesting development today in that it was announced that Marc Carig is leaving Newsday to join the Yankees beat for the Athletic. The Athletic is the subscription online site that Ken Rosenthal writes for. Rumblings are that this offer was extended during the Winter Meetings. Carig's article came afterwards. So basically, after years of being silent on the topic, he blew the lid off the doors when he knew he was on his way out. It really makes you think that there is something in play suppressing this NY media.

I don't understand what you think the writers are suppressing. Aren't there stories every winter calling the Wilpons cheap or incompetent? If anything, the New York media seems to lean toward unhinged rather than suppressed.

[ashie62]

Maybe just me, but Baseball needs a bigazz Economic Model makeover. All this is just so b-o-r-i-n-g.

[Centerfield]

Jeff Wilpon apparently had a conference call with beat writers and went extensively into the payroll. Says there is a plan.

Where is Ambler when we need him?

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: Jeff Wilpon apparently had a conference call with beat writers and went extensively into the payroll. Says there is a plan.

I'm not going to keep giving them free communications advice. Nice to see him doing that.

[Ceetar]

excited for his spin and lies so we can retroactively yell at him when a move doesn't seem to fit the new narrative.


relatedly, the Mets announced some trainer stuff, biometrics, etc. That's where the real interesting stuff is.

[Edgy MD]

What has been announced?

All I've seen is general talk about a growing understanding that training goes beyond the two guys in the dugout, but requires a broad support team. All of that is true and hardly news and welcome to the injury-aversion specialist and all, but I'm still waiting to find out who the two guys (or women) in the dugout will be.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: What has been announced? All I've seen is general talk about a growing understanding that training goes beyond the two guys in the dugout, but requires a broad support team. All of that is true and hardly news and welcome to the injury-aversion specialist and all, but I'm still waiting to find out who the two guys (or women) in the dugout will be.

the whole thing is still unofficial, they didn't announce the clubhouse staff yet but the director

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/sports/mets-fitness-expert.html?smid=Ceetar

Jim Cavallini, director of high performance

[Edgy MD]

I guess my application for director of low performance is still being considered. /*pumpsfist

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: I guess my application for director of low performance is still being considered. /*pumpsfist

he learned this from LinkedIn. Nothing stopping you from setting that as your title and the Mets as your employer, and leaking it to him. see what happens ;-)