Back Up The Truck?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd be very surprised if they found buyers for all of those players. It will be interesting to see who goes and who stays.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think they can. Only a question of what they bring back.

My $$ is on Grandy, Cabrera and Reed all playing a role for a Playoff team this year, Walker too and maybe Bruce.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Joel Sherman, on Bruce and Granderson:

Here are my suggestions: Make both available to the Royals and Blue Jays and ask the key piece in return be Nathan Karns (from Kansas City) and Ezequiel Carrera (from Toronto). That both of those players are currently on the DL shows how difficult the Mets’ path is. Just to make sure this is feasible, I ran the scenarios by three personnel men. No. 1: “Sadly, those are probably the best trade outcomes they will likely muster. This is not a great selling dynamic for them.” No. 2: “That all seems very reasonable to me. I kind of like it.” No. 3: “It makes sense to me. I think given the new rules of engagement with the qualifying offers, there is an advantage to jumping out front [to sell first].”

http://nypost.com/2017/06/23/mets-are-open-for-a-selloff-heres-how-it-can-work/

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I like the idea of getting the sale sign out early. But Carrera-- a 30-y/o without great general numbers OR useful platoon splits doesn't seem like a fit (or "lefty bat on the rise"). If you're aiming Sky-ward, maybe Joe Biagini (possibly extraneous in the rotation once Aaron Sanchez returns) would be a better, but still manageable get.

[A Boy Named Seo]

If we're gonna do this shit, then lets go big like the White Sox did when they traded Chris Sale and Adam Eaton and cleared out other teams' farm systems.

Jacob deGrom and Wilmer Flores to Houston for 3B Alex Bregman, RHP Francis Martes, OF Kyle Tuker, and RHP David Paulino.

Astros get their shot at a World Series and the Mets get a young, toolsy 3B-man and three blue-chip, ML-ready (or near-ready) prospects. Plus we're gonna need that Kyle Tucker kid when we trade Jay Bruce and Curtis Granderson.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm all for going big, but not Jacob deGrom big.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I mean, if you're going big, that's the only one that qualifies these days. Save, like, Conforto or Cespedes or Rosario. Nobody else on this roster returns anything team-changing.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I mean, if you're going big, that's the only one that qualifies these days. Save, like, Conforto or Cespedes or Rosario. Nobody else on this roster returns anything team-changing.

I'd consider moving Cespedes, Wheeler, Matz, Dom Smith, maybe Conforto if the deal was explosive enough, but I'd like to keep deGrom. Obviously not all these moves will happen but yes when you're into trading, you may as well get into it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Prefer to keep Jakob? So would I. But nothing save Conforto brings you the return of a plug-and-play, under-financial-control ace. He's older, and-- being a pitcher-- FAR more volatile a commodity, injury-wise, than Conforto. He's cheaper than Cespedes (whose move would be a strict salary dump, which makes no sense with $65m coming off the books this offseason, and nobody quite as good as a healthy Ces available). And he's far, far better in a collective deadline need-area than Matz or Wheeler or anybody. 3-and-a-half years of that brings you back a blue-chipper or, like, four.

Again, though, that's if you're going full measure. There are other choices. But NONE of them brings back the return of a healthy, studly, cheap DutchBoy.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Besides, if you're going to deal away the likes of Conforto, Smith, Matz, etc. what are you looking for, young players under team control? ... that's what those guys are.
You'd essentially be looking to get back guys who you hope will grow into what you gave away.

[Lefty Specialist]

[nymr83]

are you playing for NEXT year or 3-4 years from now?

with Syndergaard, deGrom, Matz, Wheeler, Lugo i just can't see blowing the whole thing up. trade away anyone who is a free agent that you dont plan to sign and/or older players but not the core. you may never assemble a staff like that again. take the chance that they stay healthy next year.

Syndergaard deGRom Conforto are untouchable. Matz Wheeler Rosario Cespedes shouldnt be going anywhere either.

Granderson, Walker, Cabrera, Reyes should be available to anyone who puts a decent offer out there. Bruce takes a slightly better offer and Duda a "fair value" one.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I love watching him pitch. He's our best asset at present... maybe the last, best reason to watch this team.

I think that's why we have to move deGrom. He actually brings back some prime parts... and brings them back in quantity. Like, a Moncada, a prime pitching prospect, AND a couple of lottery tickets, besides. He brings back parts that CAN help next year and replenish the system, and-- if you do it right-- shifts your primary resource to an area of need with less volatility (anywhere but the mound). Plus, you're still strong pitching-wise, potentially (Thor, Matz, Harvey, Lugo/Gsellman, whoever steps up among the Conlons and Dunns and Szapuckis).

I mean, move Duda and the like, too. But you're kidding yourselves if you think anything consequential comes from moving Walker or Bruce or Reed, even.

[Lefty Specialist]

The guys with expiring contracts that you trade will bring you back AA players at best. But they can be here in a year or two. Hell, the Tigers plugged Fullmer into the rotation almost immediately (with good results) from the Cespedes deal.

They waited 2 seasons for Syndergaard and 1 season for d'Arnaud from the Dickey deal. That's probably typical (if they make it at all).

I wouldn't expect 2018 help from these trades, but you'll have to see what kind of a wheeler-dealer Sandy is. This is probably his last go-round, so hopefully he goes out with a bang.

[Guest 41Forever]

This was a team that was supposed to be a World Series contender before being decimated by injuries. We need fine-tuning not a rebuild. It's one thing to trade off some free-agents we don't plan to re-sign. It's another to trade a centerpiece like deGrom. That would be a mistake.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yeah. I don't see a rebuild either.

OTOH, "World Series Contender" ain't nothing like it used to be, at least when I was a kid. Nowadays, more than a quarter of the teams make the playoffs and if management could assemble a team that, on paper, could be expected to win 84, 85 games, hey, that's a World Series contender. Because if the projections say 84-85 wins, that team could win 88-90 games with a little luck. So maybe half the teams are World Series contenders.

[Ceetar]

You trade deGrom or Cespedes for guys that will make you better in aggregate, in places that are harder to get. I'm not sure the Mets have those holes. d'Arnaud isn't great, and is hurt, and Plawecki hasn't hit up here yet. but that's where you'd look. You could find another pitcher, even one maybe that's only 90% as good, that makes up the win difference of getting a excellent catcher and like, a few young prospects that might be useful one day. something like that.

Or like a real quality CFer. You can (usually) find someone to approximate decent offense at the third spot if you've got Conforto-CF if you trade Cespedes for it.

There are creative ways to go about trading just about anyone. The goal is still to win in 2018, and beyond.

[Lefty Specialist]

The thing is, I don't know if they'll ever get the 'Big Five' on the field at the same time- ever.

Matz is glass. Harvey may never be the pitcher he was. Wheeler is a wild card, and still throws too many pitches. Syndergaard should be a bull, but who knows how muscle pulls will affect him? deGrom is at least the surest thing they have. If they ever were healthy and firing on all cylinders, great. Not sure we'll ever see it. Looks like the league has caught up to Lugo and Gsellman, unfortunately.

Defense has killed this team as well. Rosario will help at short, but what's the plan for second and third (I'm assuming Wright is done)? It also seems like they've moved on from Lagares in center. Conforto in right, Cespedes in left and a competent CF would work.

Oh, and just a league-average bullpen would help as well. All this may be too much to ask for 2018.

[Ceetar]

if we're being honest the Mets should probably trade FOR a top-flight pitcher and sign a defense-first CF and 2B.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: if we're being honest the Mets should probably trade FOR a top-flight pitcher and sign a defense-first CF and 2B.

A couple of relievers too.

It is a another possibility that's not considered. Even though I already declared the season OVER the other day, it's hard to see a bounceback at any point if we don't make some whacky investments soon. I am not afraid of trading Dominick Smith in the right deal! I don't fear a higher payroll!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Nobody likes Smith more than we do, is the problem. Hell, gents, nobody likes him as much, near as I can tell. The only guys anyone really wants are Reed (and it's a crowded market), Blevins (maybe), Rosario, Conforto, and Jakey... less'n we eat a LOT of salary.

If you think you're getting a "AA player" (read: actual prospect) for, say, Neil Walker, well... your liquor is better at it's its job than mine is.

A problem of similar scope: the Mets are playing just well enough to stay in the middle-class, Kazmir-for-Zambrano weird-trade zone, away from any potentially seismic draft positioning, but not nearly well enough to realistically have a shot at anything beyond one-and-done. We're in No Man's Land, in a market that'll reward early trigge-pullers (either way).

[Edgy MD]

I don't worry about these things. They happen very fast. No need to decide now whether to deal out. No need to fret over whether there's a market. Some team gave up actual live arms for Kelly Johnson ... twice! Some team couldn't wait to jump at Eric O'Flaherty. Traded a sexy young arm for him.

Wacky, right? That same crazy team found a buyer for Rey Sanchez in 2003, and Rey Ordóñez in the 2002 offseason. Yeah, for guys who would never make it, but teams have needs and deals emerge.

Or maybe they don't. Clearly, Alderson is a guy who likes to play the market until a deal is worth his while, and would rather take his chips and go home than get a reputation as a sap. That's alright too.

But Walker is pricey, you say? So was Beltran back in 2011. He's gimpy, too? Beltran again. The Mets ate some salary and made a deal. We'll see what haps.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'd expect they'll eat salary to get a better return. The salary was a sunk cost already.

[Chad ochoseis]

If we were to move one of the core players, I would want it to be Cespedes. He's still a productive player when he's on the field, but the leg injury worries me. He's not a young 31 (if 31 is what he actually is). We may have reached or may be rapidly approaching peak Cespy productivity, and the contract can very well hamstring us (yes, pun intended) in 2019 and 2020.

I could happily go with Conforto-Nimmo-Bruce for the rest of the year and possibly 2018 if we could make a trade that Cespedes would approve, that would allow us to unload at least 80% of salary (we'd still be eating about $5M/year), and that would include two top quality prospects at the AA or AAA level. That's only slightly more than what we gave up for him at the 2015 deadline, but he is signed - though pricy - through 2020. That trade may be possible now, particularly given that the AL wild card race is tight and there should be plenty of AL buyers this month.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

As "signed" for multiple years at market rates isn't an asset here, Cespedes likely doesn't bring you nearly what you think he does, unless we eat a LOT of salary (and maybe not even then), which is your reason for moving him in the first place.

.

[Edgy MD]

Trade Deadline Debbie Downer hails from the Boogie Down Bronx. Who knew?

[Lefty Specialist]

Cespedes isn't going anyplace. He has a no-trade and he was tired of shuttling from team to team, which is a big part of why he re-signed with the Mets.

This is like the deGrom talk. It. Will. Not. Happen.

[bmfc1]

It should be a garbage truck.

[Guest d'Kong76]

[Lefty Specialist]

Is it possible to back up a dumpster fire?