Back Up The Truck?

[Edgy MD]

What's the Gary Carter package in 2017? Flores, d'Arnaud, Pill, and Nimmo for Buster Posey?

That seems a hair or two better than the Carter package. d'Arnaud is probably a little more likely to have a long career than Mike Fitzgerald, and Nimmo is probably still a better prospect than Winningham was. Flores isn't as established as Hubie Brooks was, but I think overall, it's a damn comparable package. Is that a deal you make this offseason with Posey signed for four more years in his 31-34 seasons?

[RealityChuck]

Ceetar wrote: Duda too though I'd like to keep him.

I would, too, but it's likely he'll be gone next year. The team isn't going to lock him in with a long-term commitment, especially with Dominic Smith in the wings. Unless the team is in the thick of the race -- and that's looking less and less likely -- it makes sense to trade him.

[Ceetar]

RealityChuck wrote: Ceetar wrote: Duda too though I'd like to keep him. I would, too, but it's likely he'll be gone next year. The team isn't going to lock him in with a long-term commitment, especially with Dominic Smith in the wings. Unless the team is in the thick of the race -- and that's looking less and less likely -- it makes sense to trade him.

I've seen no indication either way, in fact there were rumors last year early on that they were talking about it. Smith is still a prospect and hardly a given for next year.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy MD wrote: What's the Gary Carter package in 2017? Flores, d'Arnaud, Pill, and Nimmo for Buster Posey? That seems a hair or two better than the Carter package. d'Arnaud is probably a little more likely to have a long career than Mike Fitzgerald, and Nimmo is probably still a better prospect than Winningham was. Flores isn't as established as Hubie Brooks was, but I think overall, it's a damn comparable package. Is that a deal you make this offseason with Posey signed for four more years in his 31-34 seasons?

Would the Giants make that deal, though? I don't have any idea what their needs might be, so I can't really say. I'd think, though, that they'd want someone other than Pill. Maybe a Single-A or Double-A pitcher with a higher ceiling than Pill is considered to have?

[Edgy MD]

That's what the Expos said about Floyd Youmans! I'm telling Brian Sabean what I told John McHale 33 years ago! Take it or leave it!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Why did the Expos trade Carter, anyway? I'm not sure I remember. Was it that he was signed to an expensive contract that the Expos came to regret?

[Edgy MD]

He was making salary demands and the Expos were rebuilding. Beyond that, maybe they just liked the package.

The question! Nobody's answering the question!

What? I'm perfectly calm! GET YOUR HANDS OFF OF ME!

[Guest cooby]

I think the only name worse than Floyd is Cloyd

[Benjamin Grimm]

What about "Hortense"?

[Frayed Knot]

[fimg=100:aj2r8y70]http://d3k2oh6evki4b7.cloudfront.net/req/201706013/images/headshots/c/c6c7d8ef_davis.jpg[/fimg:aj2r8y70]

Cloyd Boyer was the least known of the three Boyer brothers having pitched in parts of five ML seasons during the 1950s.
However, unlike his younger and more famous big league brothers Clete and Ken, Cloyd is still around at the age of 89

[Edgy MD]

Sheesh, none of youse truck-reversers want to make a call on a potential consolidation deal.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't give up 4 guys for an old catcher. The Carter deal worked because we already had Hernandez and Strawberry and Gooden and Fernandez etc.

[Edgy MD]

Way to make a call!

[bmfc1]

No truck is going to be backed up to CF in late July, not that it isn't warranted but for 2 reasons: Sandy can only do one thing at a time and trading some or all of Bruce, Granderson, Walker, Duda, Reed is too much work for him. He is also arrogant and some would interpret making multiple trades a sign of failure (it's not but he could see it that way). The other reason is that Jeffy, the 3rd Trump son, thinks that we only want to see "stars" (as if those are stars). I think that 2 months of Ceccini, T.J. Rivera, D. Smith, Nimmo (and dare I say it? Rosario) with an eye toward '18 would be preferable to 2 more months of this but Jeffy won't feel the same way.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think that take is exactly accurate.

[Lefty Specialist]

People won't come out to see this team as currently constituted, so that won't hold Sandy or Jeffy back from making trades. If Jay Bruce is on this team on August 1st, that's a major fail.

We won't get anybody currently good in return. You'll get minor leaguers, who are always a crap shoot. You can only hope they pick the right ones.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: That's what the Expos said about Floyd Youmans! I'm telling Brian Sabean what I told John McHale 33 years ago! Take it or leave it!

I would make that deal. But I don't know who would need the crying towel more, Flores or me.
Later

[Lefty Specialist]

Wilmer won't cry if he's sprung from this team onto a contender. I think he got things out of his system.

[Edgy MD]

Not for nothing, but there are a lot more teams in a position to sell than to buy in this fiercely uncompetitive season.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think there might be value in striking first if we're trading to an NL franchise, and/or exploiting the tight AL East.

Harvey to Boston.
Doodoo to the MFYs, boy that hurts.
Walker and Cabrera to TOR
Reed to BAL

I'd also consider moving Cespedes!

[Edgy MD]

Cabralker sure picked a lousy time to hit the DL.

[Centerfield]

Is it legal to trade someone on the DL? Cause Walker has value. Middle infielder with an .822 OPS over the last two seasons is not bad.

[Benjamin Grimm]

They say you can't trade someone on the DL, but the Mets nearly traded Zack Wheeler to the Brewers in 2015, so there's apparently some kind of loophole.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: Is it legal to trade someone on the DL? Cause Walker has value. Middle infielder with an .822 OPS over the last two seasons is not bad.

It's legal, but it's also more difficult.
On the legal side you need the player to give his OK. Without it it's like very player on the DL has complete, even if temporary, no-trade immunity.
But it's more the practical side of things that's the big wrench in the works. The potential trading partner doesn't know if they're getting four months of a player in prime form or two months of a
compromised version of him and, because of that uncertainty, the team dealing him has to be willing to take less back since they're dealing damaged goods.

[Edgy MD]

You just have to use the PtBNL back door. Presumably the teams have a handshake understanding of what Plan B will be if the player never recovers.

A DL'd Walker is a tough thing to pull the trigger on, because unlike Wheeler, any value Neil offers is short-term. And short-term, it's tough to have faith in his health.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I suspect the Mets would ultimately have been better off had Walker rejected them. Hard to trade at that salary, good enough but not great, and as far as I know Cheech/TJ/Wilmo /Cabrera/Wright etc. could presumably hack his role. Though maybe if everything else that went wrong went right it wouldn't have mattered so much.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I suspect the Mets would ultimately have been better off had Walker rejected them. Hard to trade at that salary, good enough but not great, and as far as I know Cheech/TJ/Wilmo /Cabrera/Wright etc. could presumably hack his role. Though maybe if everything else that went wrong went right it wouldn't have mattered so much.

Nah, I mean there would've been some depth issues perhaps, but there's no real indication that they signed Walker (or Bruce) OVER doing something else.

I think the Mets just got stuck in a little bit of a wedge, with a lot of average or good players with plenty of warts. They put so many eggs in the run prevention via pitching basket that when that exploded it really exposed all the other holes.

It's why the Mets should trade for a pitcher. Or two. I expected, and still do, this team to be WAY different in August+. As much as this season is going bad, it could ultimately work out. It sucks to suck this bad, but it's probably better for '18-'20 to not try to milk every inch of WAR out of Cabrera and Walker and Bruce and use them to provide some long term depth. Even if they only get a few serviceable relievers or bench guys, it'll be good.

[Edgy MD]

I tend to think a big part of the issues with this team is dropping two of their more expensive offseason pay packets on guys they didn't really want. That money could have gone someplace special. That they've played more or less well (when healthy) doesn't change the facts that they (1) had other guys who could handle those positions, and (2) had other targets that $$$ might have gone toward.

That money could indeed have gone to that pitcher. The Wright money still can, I guess.

[Benjamin Grimm]

This is going to be a really interesting offseason. Even if 2017 had gone well, with a World Championship, it was going to be a last hurrah for this group.

I think Duda is gone, unless he's willing to sign a three-year contract, which is possible. But the Mets aren't going to offer him a QO.

Will the Mets be in win-now mode in 2018? Or will they take a step back and try to gear up for 2019? It would be unorthodox to try to win a pennant with three rookies in their infield (Cecchini, Smith, and Rosario), so if they're "win now" I expect they'd bring in a veteran infielder to play either second or first.

They'll have money to spend, and I think they'll spend it, but on whom? I have no idea.

And as I said in the Matt Harvey poll a few days ago, I think he'll be non-tendered. According to the poll results, my opinion is in the minority.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

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