Now Playing in New York: Hamilton?

[Edgy MD]

Unsourced buzz suggests that the Mets have shown interest in offering Jay Bruce back to Cincinnati in exchange for centerfielder Billy Hamilton, with the deal to make or break depending on other parts thrown in by other sides.

Hamilton hasn't been hopeless with the bat, but he's certainly not been consistently effective by any stretch. The Reds seemingly have continued to express optimism that he can still progress. What's in it for the Mets, apart from the obvious salary difference, would be whether they see something in Hamilton they can work with.

If he came over, he might be a rare bird—a ninth-place hitter in the National League, at least initially.

[Frayed Knot]

Not sure that I want Sandy to make a deal for Hamilton, but if a trade is being discussed he should certainly be in the room where it happens.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Even if he's Helpless with the bat, he's worth about what Bruce is worth when he's hitting 35 HRs. Honestly, I don't see the Reds saying yes even IF the Mets eat salary, but if they're up for it, I don't see how you can Say No To This. No durr, sir.

[Centerfield]

Wait, as in the Billy Hamilton that hits worse than Juan Lagares?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

And fields/runs better. For real.

Although... no L-R splits. Not a great Lagares platoon partner... unlike, say, Jarrod Dyson.

[Lefty Specialist]

Why would Cincinnati do that? They're rebuilding. Doesn't make sense from their perspective. Hamilton is speed, but not much else.

[Edgy MD]

I don't know. But I read about that shit mostly on Cincinnati sites.

[bmfc1]

I don't know if Sandy is going to take his shot with B Dot Ham, who doesn't get on base enough to be Sandy's type of player. The idea of having that kind of speed would Be Enough for many of us but I think that Sandy doesn't want to get Burned.

There are more songs to pun about.

[Edgy MD]

Here's a summation. The suggestion is that the Mets initiated talks but the Reds are actively listening.

[MFS62]

Centerfield wrote: Wait, as in the Billy Hamilton that hits worse than Juan Lagares?

Career sub-.300 OBP.

You can't steal first.
What could the Mets think they could improve that someone hasn't tried so far?

Pass

Later

[smg58]

Or we could just re-sign Eric Young.

[Edgy MD]

MFS62 wrote: What could the Mets think they could improve that someone hasn't tried so far?

Plenty of players have improved after 25. But certainly a big part of his value is his defense and baserunning.

And it's certainly not like Jay Bruce is without flaws.

[dinosaur jesus]

Please, no. I'd rather have Esix Snead.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If we were to make a list of Mets players whose names sound most like something out of Harry Potter, then I think I'd start with Esix Snead.

[Edgy MD]

dinosaur jesus wrote: Please, no. I'd rather have Esix Snead.

That's the spirit. Hold out for Votto.

[Centerfield]

I think a lot of the disconnect here is that some of us, namely me, have trouble quantifying the value of better defense, if that is true, from Hamilton. Because Lagares seems like a pretty terrific fielder to me.

But for the sake of argument, here are the hurdles to overcome if you are to justify a trade for Hamilton.

1. You must establish that Hamilton is better than Lagares
Hamilton is the better basestealer, Lagares is the better hitter, even while playing in a much tougher park. Hamilton is a much better basestealer. The difference in hitting is not as drastic, but hitting is more important than stealing bases. Fielding aside, who is the better player? I'm not sure the answer.

It's being suggested here that Hamilton is the better fielder. If so, that would tip the balance in favor of Hamilton. But Lagares is pretty good himself. Is this accepted as fact that Hamilton is better? I admit I have no idea about these defensive metrics.

But if you want to justify this trade, you have to be able to demonstrate that Hamilton is the better player overall.

2. The difference between Hamilton and Lagares has to be significant enough that it's worth trading Bruce
Sure, there is some argument over the value of Bruce here, and I was vocal about not wanting him. But the dude did hit 30 HR's, and was worth a few pretty good prospects just a few months ago.

I'm not sure that one can clearly demonstrate that Hamilton is better than Lagares, but that the margin is wide enough to drive a Bruce through it? I don't see it.

3. Then what the fuck do you do with Lagares?
Even if you get there on the first two, then the end result is two centerfielders that are more or less interchangeable. If the idea is that we have to trade an outfielder because we have a glut of outfielders, trading for another outfielder kinda undermines that objective no?

I guess you could say that if we trade for Hamilton, we don't need Granderson, but then you are talking about trading 60 HR's away to make room for Hamilton.

[seawolf17]

Centerfield wrote: I guess you could say that if we trade for Hamilton, we don't need Granderson, but then you are talking about trading 60 HR's away to make room for Hamilton.

Just move the fences way back again. Voila! Hamilton hits eighty triples this year.

(I don't like Hamilton for Bruce at all.)

[RealityChuck]

I'm against it. He may be a Hall of Famer, but he's been dead for 75 years.

[Edgy MD]

Hamilton is better IF you believe that his injury-depressed performance on defense is permanent rather than passing. I don't know, but I'm guessing that the Mets have more insight into this than most.

Hamilton also is a year and a half younger. But yeah, they generally seem redundant.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I sorta wanna get WATPy with the Reds. Hamilton and Votto for Lagares, Bruce, Doodoo and Matz.

Otherwise, yeah, look at Cain/Dyson. I don't know.

[Fman99]

Uh, no.