Catcher 2017

[Centerfield]

What do you do with d'Arnaud? Had an .825 OPS in 2015, but regressed badly in 2016. The Julio Franco stance has made his swing impossibly long. He's starting earlier, but constantly behind on the ball anyway. You'd think that the benefit of the longer swing would be increased power, but his SLG saw the biggest dropoff (down 162 points) and his HR's dropped from 12 to 4. Remember, TdA was one of the guys we thought could hit 20 this year.

I don't know what to make of him. Can't stay healthy, can't throw out runners. Is now 27 years of age and has been wildly inconsistent. Seriously, I don't know why he wouldn't go back to the earlier stance that had him short and quick through the zone.

Matt Wieters is a free agent but he kinda sucks. Wilson Ramos is available and good, but he's not only hurt, but has a history of bad knees.

[smg58]

He played hurt most (if not all) of the year. I'm for giving him another chance.

[Ceetar]

I kinda suspected he was still hurt and expect him to be fine in 2017. Also the "can't throw out runners" thing is overstated and he's a very good framer.

[Edgy MD]

If they return him (and I suspect they are inclined to) they probably want a thumpier backup plan than René Rivera, though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It's a big area of need. I think it's already "out there" that he's not strong enough defensively and maybe even isn't thought of well as a receiver, so unless he really steps up with the lumber he's an absolute lost cause. It bothered me how frequently he changed his batting stance, and I was absolutely shocked when I heard him saying how committed he was to his new one as it hadn't followed or preceeded any improvement in his hitting. It's like we're reliving Josh Thole all over again: Promising offensive dish prospect becomes a unreliable singles hitter whose defense disappoints all around.

Plus, the friggin injuries.

I think this is one case where moving on is absolutely the right thing to do, the question is what next.

I guess my short-term solution is trade d"Arnaud for something (relief help? A RH-hitting reserve outfielder?) bet on Plawecki's bat moving forward, augment him with a veteran backup (Rivera or the like), and wait patiently for Tomas Nido.

Catcher and first base are hard places to break in rookies, and that's where we need to.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm not sure what to do about Travis. It would be a shame to trade him now, mainly because his value is pretty low and he may bounce back to be the player that he was in 2015. Ideally, the Mets would bring in a 30-year-old veteran catcher with a solid bat and let Travis be the backup and whatever playing time he gets will provide more information about whether 2016 was a fluke or if it's time to give up on him, as may very well be the case.

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm not sure what to do about Travis. It would be a shame to trade him now, mainly because his value is pretty low and he may bounce back to be the player that he was in 2015. Ideally, the Mets would bring in a 30-year-old veteran catcher with a solid bat and let Travis be the backup and whatever playing time he gets will provide more information about whether 2016 was a fluke or if it's time to give up on him, as may very well be the case.

I'm here too. I was thinking to bring in like a Nick Hundley or Geovany Soto and see what happens.

I think this is the wrong time to cut bait on Travis.

Ditto what JCL was saying. It's crazy how committed he is to that stance even though he sucks with it. I wonder what the coaches have to say about it.

[Centerfield]

smg58 wrote: He played hurt most (if not all) of the year. I'm for giving him another chance.

Is this true? I hadn't heard that.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Nobody's on Team Kevin with me? I'm not saying he's exactly Mr. Reliable either, but keep in mind that unlike d'Arnaud his spotty MLB record can be explained away in part because he was rushed there thanks to d"Arnaud's unreliability and that he's now finally got the AAA season he so badly needed.

It wasn't a bad one, neither.

My theory: If Plawecki hadn't been promoted over his head in 2015 I think the chorus would be pretty darn loud for him right now.

[Edgy MD]

Becoming a full-time catcher suxx. You have to learn to hit major league pitching at the same time you have to learn your staff and what they can do — a staff that is now perhaps 13 dudes — as well as learn the vulnerabilities of every hitter in the league. And you have do that while bearing the daily wounds and fatigue while coming to play four times in five. This adjustment is known to take several years. Or several years and bucket of roids if your name is Hundley.

Yeah, the Yankees had a wunderkind come up and hit a massive amount of homers, and good for him. But a lot of guys have come up and made a splash before the realities of the grind drew them back to the pack. Devin Mesoraco, what's doing? J.P. Arencibia, long time no see.

None of that is necessarily to say that d'Arnaud is the way the team should go. Only that I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to find out they were still invested in him.

But how about getting a catching instructor back on the staff this year?

[Zvon]

d'Arnaud could frame my testicles in gold and it means jack shit if he can't block pitches properly or throw guys out. I've said it before. He has a stamina issue where he wears down way to soon. In individual games and over the long haul as well. Also that wrist cock thing.

I wouldn't call it giving him a second chance. Come spring he gets to show if he has worked on and improved on where he lacks. If he hasn't he'll have to move aside for good, as far as being a first string catcher goes.

He's pretty much already been relegated to 2nd string behind Rivera, IMO.

[Frayed Knot]

- not ready to give up on TdA.
Maybe that's wishful thinking but his 2015 counts as much as the 2016 and I don't want to sell low on him

- also not sold on Plawecki
Maybe he was rushed (although at age 24 couldn't have been that rushed) but it's not like his minor league numbers are out of sight either (esp in Vegas).
Plus I'd rather have d'Arnaud defensively, at least based on what I've seen. I don't know that Plawecki has the arm for full-time behind the plate work.

[Edgy MD]

Zvon wrote: d'Arnaud could frame my testicles in gold and it means jack shit if he can't block pitches properly or throw guys out. I've said it before. He has a stamina issue where he wears down way to soon. In individual games and over the long haul as well. Also that wrist cock thing. I wouldn't call it giving him a second chance. Come spring he gets to show if he has worked on and improved on where he lacks. If he hasn't he'll have to move aside for good, as far as being a first string catcher goes. He's pretty much already been relegated to 2nd string behind Rivera, IMO.

Sure, but that was 2016, and now we are looking forward.

Does the evidence really demonstrate that d'Arnaud distinctly or consistently allows passed balls or fails the throw out throw-out-able runners below the mean? Because I have my doubts that it does, especially considering he has worked with one or two pitchers who just don't keep an eye on the runners at all at all.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Once or twice a year I have to point out that balls and strikes are where
the ball crosses or doesn't cross the plate. If an ump is calling pitches based
on good framing or bad framing they are doing their job properly. I know my
stance on this drives some crazy, but I have to vent it once and awhile.

I've said a couple of times now I'm d'un with d'Travis but there's no way he's
not going to get every shot to be d'man in 2017. He's not trade-able for d'much.

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Once or twice a year I have to point out that balls and strikes are where the ball crosses or doesn't cross the plate. If an ump is calling pitches based on good framing or bad framing they are doing their job properly. I know my stance on this drives some crazy, but I have to vent it once and awhile.

I feel compelled to point out again that it's demonstrably true that umpires are influenced by framing.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I figured you might be compelled haha.

[Fman99]

Zvon wrote: Also that wrist cock thing.

[Guest d'Kong76]

If an ump is calling pitches based on good framing or bad framing they are doing their job properly.

Of course I meant NOT doing...

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: If an ump is calling pitches based on good framing or bad framing they are [not] doing their job properly. I feel compelled to point out again that it's demonstrably true that umpires are influenced by framing.

This is why we need RoboUmp

[Edgy MD]

The name is Murphy.

[Guest themetfairy]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Nobody's on Team Kevin with me?

I'm always on Team Kevin.

Or team Kelvin....

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm for moving on from Travis. Even before the injury he wasn't that good at throwing out runners. And in typical Met fashion, we don't really know how bad that rotator cuff injury is. His saving grace may be that his value is rock-bottom right now so he's not tradeable. But I'd prefer someone else behind the dish.

[TransMonk]

I'm not a d'A fan and am ready to move on...though, I'm not sure what the best answer is, yet.

Like most things this season, we may not a have a clear answer on how they fill the catcher's role until they know more about the Cespedes sitch.

[bmfc1]

We saw Wilson Ramos cause the Mets a lot of damage this year but 2016 may have been an aberration. Look at his WAR vs. other seasons:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1433&position=C
Plus, he's coming off an ACL injury.
I think that they are going to give d'Arnaud every chance to win the job back.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: Zvon wrote: d'Arnaud could frame my testicles in gold and it means jack shit if he can't block pitches properly or throw guys out. I've said it before. He has a stamina issue where he wears down way to soon. In individual games and over the long haul as well. Also that wrist cock thing. I wouldn't call it giving him a second chance. Come spring he gets to show if he has worked on and improved on where he lacks. If he hasn't he'll have to move aside for good, as far as being a first string catcher goes. He's pretty much already been relegated to 2nd string behind Rivera, IMO. Sure, but that was 2016, and now we are looking forward. Does the evidence really demonstrate that d'Arnaud distinctly or consistently allows passed balls or fails the throw out throw-out-able runners below the mean? Because I have my doubts that it does, especially considering he has worked with one or two pitchers who just don't keep an eye on the runners at all at all.

Commenting as to Travis having a chance to prove himself in spring is me looking forward.

To me, he does demonstrate that he is not the best choice we have for the position. I'm not concerned with "the mean". Just with what we have.
He's been pretty weak behind the plate on things that he definitely can improve on. Simple things as far as I'm concerned.

When was the last time Trav caught Thor? And who is the other pitcher?

Now if d'Arnaud continued to hit the way we hoped he would hit, and consistently, I might feel different. He may come around someday but I'd rather not see him struggle through whatever he has to on the MLB level. I'd like to see him excel as a Metropolitan, but until he shows some improvements he goes behind Rene on my depth chart.

Is Rivera the answer? For a full season? I'd think offensively we would suffer but behind the plate we'd be okay. I gotta say his bat, as bad as it was, surprised me this season. I think because a number of his hits were clutch hits.
Ideally Trav or Kevin step up, or I think we need more from behind the plate than Rene. But if the team does certain things this off season to make for a better 2017, and Sandy goes with Rivera as our guy behind the plate, I'll accept it and root my ass off for him.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Rivera is not realistic for a whole season, at least not Plan A.

I suppose I could be convinced of an all-out battle between TdA and Plawecki, loser goes to Vegas, or the Twins or something.

[Zvon]

All three up on the big club does not make sense as things stand. Flip flop em both, up & down to the farm to get at bats (until one hopefully breaks out)? I don't like that but if nothing is done about the situation I can see the Mets doing it.

[Frayed Knot]

Y'know, I'm tempted to just throw all in on Plawecki & d'Arnaud again to start the season.
Yeah you'll want a backup handy but you always do with catching so that's nothing new here.

But absent getting a good offer for one or the other over the winter, I'd be willing to try last year's duo again this season with the idea that it's almost certain to work out better than it did.

[Edgy MD]

There's certainly a handful of good catchers out there to pursue. Wilson Ramos would have been one of the most appealing, but unfortunately, he's going in for knee surgery, and will likely miss most of the first half of 2017.

[Centerfield]

I think this will depend on Travis's willingness to be coached. I wonder how the Mets brass feels about that stupid stance. You'd have to think Kevin Long is advising against it no? It's crazy to me that somebody would be so pigheaded about something that is clearly so wrong.