Change to strike zone, intentional walks

[Ceetar]

Chad Ochoseis wrote: But I recognize that I'm in the minority of baseball fans in general, and I may even be in the minority of fans here in the CPF.

I'm not sure I'd bet on that (the first one)

I'm fine with length of games, if I had one complaint about length (Besides the bonus commercials in the playoffs, I think the break for normal games is just right) it'd be the 3+ pitcher innings in low-leverage spots. Walk a batter, pitcher change for matchup, pitches to two guys, then switch again for the lefty. bring in the relievers ready to go and that's a one commercial break.

[seawolf17]

Chad Ochoseis wrote: I could see cutting time between innings (which, as has been pointed out, will never be agreed to by the networks)

Put ads on the uniforms, then, and cut a minute out of the breaks.

[Guest 41Forever]

The biggest time suck to me seems to be the endless pitching changes in the late innings.

It's always seemed odd to me that managers think it's OK to use one pitcher -- regardless of whether he is a lefty or righty -- for the first six innings, and one pitcher for the ninth inning, the closer -- regardless of whether he is a lefty or righty -- but use four pitchers for the seventh and eight innings, suddenly deciding that the lefty-righty match-ups are mandatory for every batter, but only in those innings.

[Guest d'Kong76]

seawolf17 wrote: Put ads on the uniforms, then, and cut a minute out of the breaks.

That would never fly; if ads on the uni's ever come (and that would
suck imo) it will be an advertising add-on and not a trade off for a real
beer commercial.

[Guest 41Forever]

d'Kong76 wrote: seawolf17 wrote: Put ads on the uniforms, then, and cut a minute out of the breaks. That would never fly; if ads on the uni's ever come (and that would suck imo) it will be an advertising add-on and not a trade off for a real beer commercial.

Have you seen the size of the Under Armor logos that are soon coming, and noting that they will be on the chest, not the sleeve. I'm counting those as ads. They're huge.

[Edgy MD]

Do you think I'm correctly assuming that any runs scored from the free baserunner would go down as unearned?

And logo creep is another seriously sketchy issue.

[Frayed Knot]

Mostly I think baseball needs an attitude adjustment rather than a whole new set of rules and gimmicks. Over the last several decades the game has slowly morphed from one where the ball was considered ‘Live’ unless stated otherwise to one where pretty much the opposite is true, where time is assumed to be ‘out’ as its default setting.

Go back, for instance, to Murphy’s “steal” of 3rd base during a walk against the Dodgers in the 2015 playoffs. The reason he was able to pull that off is that when ball four was issued (to Duda?) the shifted Dodgers infield, and specifically 3B Justin Turner stationed temporarily out in short RF, simply began strolling back towards their positions with heads down as if thinking that the previous play is now over and nothing else can happen until the first pitch of the next batter. There was also that kerfuffle with Hansel Robles and the Phils batter (Rupp - or maybe Ruf, the two are pretty much interchangeable) where the Phils dugout erupted at Robles throwing the pitch when Rupp wasn’t ready even though he was in the box at the time! It’s like, ‘yeah, it might be Legal for him to throw the pitch now but we don't consider it kosher cuz you didn’t ask "Mother May I?" ahead of time’. There was also that incident the same week as the Murphy play when Toronto catcher Russell Martiin’s throw back to his pitcher hit the bat of the Ranger batter. In that one even the ump’s first reaction was to call back the play (a runner scored from 3rd on the deflection) because apparently now nothing is allowed to happen between pitches. After a discussion the call was reversed and the run allowed to score but the fact that it took a five minute conference to come to that conclusion suggest that the attitude of the game has changed to one where it's being treated as a series of disconnected events rather than one with ongoing action.

And if the players and even umps feel this way it should be no surprise that fans — and maybe more importantly, potential fans — pick up on this attitude too. Baseball didn’t use to be considered a ‘slow’ game but now it seems like that’s one of the first labels stuck on it, and not just from those baseball haters who have been saying some version of that for half a century or more.

[Zvon]

I'm concerned that MLB is even just proposing this. Which Bozo came up with this one?
Length of games don't bother me at all. Folks gotta slow down and smell the pine tar.


Next thing you know we'll be seeing shit like this:

[fimg=300:j6svpcue]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UmFAqyt4QjyJTXDPKrBXRAJKWsbctWEOMqktJ8_YBHUDquKXUQHeHj4zodT1GhIblaXJZQdPVCnOm5ii7GOYYQ78-dU-TG3k1f5FaOe7Y1D06bcvUzDjgzc_G-wDdkAZaYhZIngmAxtFqeDsGfdIwARxN-Hz0qibhMpo-FJwR6Yx2sTf_tqOjEXT5iIv1mCIJuAutFfv-rRkOC0HwAJpTlwevX03tivl1jFMu4tfWTm0rpceLy48J8rFwu3ZbGL37G6044KNIBA2_YAeHZFT8BQlzteE0k6Lz7oOOEliPLCUnBtg8vCoOuR1_pITJ1GMYoA_0UlKuTpL6WkayQlWIafYaD_iapBwpKYcbjtc6FolOA-SFSn2Q36ssM12OVNmseATbeSzcspZ1feVqDQhFcUhrlKTifHS1-PKhvoFCJ-GM-4iIn8BtHwna0YYAgeiMvuGtx1H8bi0Go7R8hRrddGtvqnrWwRUs-0N3mHHvqactlLp1dtRfT2SindM6u8s_e_t2Ar9SS0VpO4vk4S0fEip-A-iJPX0-FldCrur_5lz0FBScwlGXVxUgM2MHEZ2He-sQjvimQLPEGU-I3HqDQHN6xAwAp8gst2LLyBxehSAo99EnKAEiA=w350-h261-no[/fimg:j6svpcue][fimg=300:j6svpcue]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RxfTQSwtrvzyKMUzDOMRdj_n4iwhpz3V1lbZfhBgC-fJbPwJTU5BMqT-yFOUpCeZt8KrZ-ZnE2dd18QlJh-XnLXvI0IT4qmkh44UPk6xYd7sUIM3ZcAPfoW7djfaU38OSARNbuF4lJz0UypJskyxeKxthLWwG63ZBOlpBbSytH2rqbQcL4f7I6dIbBUSl74stB3fg99aOHwizdvg40TcWQ_AXaCnPjXik6t4-InIYFpQWDTsg6xqHyXO8JgMKFcrJmpl33RVNpH40EmWMxbB7_qQaOI_-Tf1tTc9W7rY8c0P0UovHeGwTjg3SRY7gMBMl91eDKrXiGTqiXDZNWe9Hd21ZNiEIlnQeqWTv-Nh8SviU3MHBE1kfVDdoFGNWC7BBMP-f4aqvix7HzuDlIww29F32XOW-oQu3vE49lIOnGQWLLas6hgowsy9ZHR-6qfcbxVdwimFFc0Nrf6cPdtBEJLaY5R75EaIoS3mql4iBINGkJfZR8bg_Kom8MkyuV-ElOlnQ8ghqh4otLKSgeHjoYDCRCRTS6LNbZr7ecTDU_wEKiOZI9iDSDr3RJeydh4hqklKOPxWt2UzXB-zml3YDKJXFfY7I2eMhKfL-RqvdWSis00C_aC21A=w464-h340-no[/fimg:j6svpcue]

[Guest d'Kong76]

41Forever wrote: Have you seen the size of the Under Armor logos that are soon coming, and noting that they will be on the chest, not the sleeve. I'm counting those as ads. They're huge.

Well, that's UA's thing, on the chest. Not sure why one would be counting
on it like it's something desirable? I fine with little UA's or R's or Nswishes,
but if MLB uni's become Venezuelan League-esque billboards I'm going to
have a problem with that. Their not race cars, their uniforms.

OE: oops, I read 'I'm counting on those ads' ... the eyes, they're going.

[Guest 41Forever]

d'Kong76 wrote: Have you seen the size of the Under Armor logos that are soon coming, and noting that they will be on the chest, not the sleeve. I'm counting those as ads. They're huge. Well, that's UA's thing, on the chest. Not sure why one would be counting on it like it's something desirable? I fine with little UA's or R's or Nswishes, but if MLB uni's become Venezuelan League-esque billboards I'm going to have a problem with that. Their not race cars, their uniforms. OE: oops, I read 'I'm counting on those ads' ... the eyes, they're going.

I should have been more clear. The chest logos will look awful.

[Lefty Specialist]

One less commercial per half inning, and you've cut games by 9 minutes. (I know, unlikely.)

Broadcasting companies don't really care when games end. They want to start their shows in prime time and they sell more commercials in the pre-game shows, so that leads to 8:37 start times. They've paid their bills on the commercials and relentless network promos they sell in the first four innings or so. After that it's gravy. They know as much as anybody that viewership falls off after 10 PM Eastern. And they're not selling Viagra to the 8-year-olds that are fast asleep by then (and which baseball needs to build a loyal fan base).

The problem is that Bud Selig let these guys dictate terms to him in exchange for a huge pot of money. The most egregious example is the 'Let the home field advantage for the World Series be dictated by an exhibition game'. Fox ratings were slumping for the game so the tie was a convenient excuse to 'jazz it up' and 'make it count'. The players weren't any more motivated, and the managers were put in an impossible position trying to win a game that should be meaningless.

Shortening the game in this way doesn't help things. It just makes sure that commercials are a larger percentage of the air time.

[ashie62]

I believe those commercials pay some of those large salaries.

Baseball will allow an ad logo ala the NBA in time. Baseball like many things is all about the money.

[nymr83]

Over at ESPN, Curtis Granderson gets mentioned as a potential beneficiary of strike zone change as he sucks at the bottom of the current zone that would move up

http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/18708283/if-strike-zone-moves-which-mlb-players-win-lose

[Frayed Knot]

"Unfortunately, it now appears there really won't be any meaningful rule change for the 2017 season due to a lack of cooperation from the MLBPA," said Commish Manfred at Cactus League Media Day.
"I'm disappointed that we could not even get the MLBPA to agree to modest rule changes like limits on trips to the mound that have little effect on the competitive character of the game ... Despite this disappointment, we will continue to work with the MLBPA to effectuate change."

However he then goes on to say that although the rule change provision in the Basic Agreement dictates that MLB has to propose changes during an offseason and then, if unable to reach an agreement, the process can continue over the course of the next season and offseason, but he then adds the agreement culminates "with a unilateral right to make playing rule changes."
IOW (at least the way I'm reading things) if the player's union continues to resist the changes for another full year, [u:10wk41zb]MLB can simply enact whatever changes they want without union agreement[/u:10wk41zb].

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/216635016/rob-manfred-meaningful-changes-will-take-time/

[seawolf17]

Because the rule change is stupid.

#savetheintentionalwalk
#extrainningsforever

[MFS62]

If I want to look at different rules, I'll watch slow pitch softball, thank you.

Later

[A Boy Named Seo]

So much stupid shit being bandied by the League, good on Tony Clark and the players for #resisting hard. Balls in play are way down. Yes, all those super boring starts where Thor mows down 13 hitters. Sooo00000oooo boring.

Last year's games were 4 and a half minutes longer than 2015. Lots of good ways to shave those off (and prob a few more) without going to pitch clocks, and all that other lame nonsense. But I think Manfred kind of wants gimmicky, lame shit to attract youngbloods who think baseball is hella boring. I don't think he 100% has the same concerns we do. Have you been to an NBA pre-game where fireworks explode out of the backboard like it's Wrestlemania? Something tells me Manfred would LOVE that.

Cutting adverts between innings will never happen, but it's disingenuous for the League to pretend that there are never times where the ump is holding up action until the network comes back from break. MLB could shorten all in-game commercial spots by 5 seconds or even 3 seconds, and bam, there's your 4-6 minutes back. I know there was talk in previous years on shortening breaks between innings, but not sure if any #ExecutiveOrders were signed. Then make your batters stay in the box, cut down on warm-up pitches, and the other common sense stuff, and you probably get to 10 minutes. 10 minutes most fans probably don't even notice, btw.

Oh, and Adam Silver paved the way for uni ads in American pro sports, I'm afraid. I hope baseball holds out til I'm dead, but I wouldn't place a hefty bet on that one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I wouldn't mind if they started enforcing pitch-clock type moves. Would mean less Bastardo for everybody.

But this IW bullshit is just bullshit.

[Ceetar]

again IBBs should me prevented, not codified.

But maybe Manfred should talk to people that "only watch one or two games a month" and see what's up.

But really it's pretty obvious. The best thing that baseball can do is stop the cease and desist nonsense and actively promote the spreading of gifs, memes, and video clips across social media and the internet at large.

Remember that the world is different now and trying to find more fans that will devote 20 hours a week to watching the product is a fools game, and making it 18 will not change that.

But fans that watch occasionally, but still "follow" and enjoy the interactions during the day and watching highlights and dingers and all that stuff that comes from it. Like a clip of every Blue jay home run set to Johnny Cash. Most of this type of stuff gets shut down. I don't even like music and this is great ([youtube:13y1rqm6]E9jaMJvYNq0[/youtube:13y1rqm6]) This is "Millennial" interaction with the sport. Just because baseball hasn't properly figured out how to monetize it, or how much it actually does lead to fan involvement, doesn't mean it's bad.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm seeing reports that the intentional walk change is in fact going to happen this year.

Here's an article from the L.A. Times: http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-mlb-intentional-walks-20170222-story.html

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, previously filed stories now seem to be getting tweaked to read that the one change that might get done this year is be the automatic IW - presumably that's the lone one to
which the PA is willing to give their stamp of approval, although nothing appears to be official yet.

As I said earlier in this thread, that's about the last place I'd start and is also the place where it'll make the least amount of difference (my math estimates it'll shave a maximum of 12 seconds
off the time of the average game) but I suppose Manfred wants to be seen as doing something and so he'll take what he can get while continuing to work towards more substantial things.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Well, if I'm called on to manage I'll simply instruct the battery to throw
four pitches way outside as an F-U to Manfred et al.

[Benjamin Grimm]

No manager would take that risk, of course.

Next maybe they'll address the unintentional intentional walk. The manager will have to find a way to give the IW signal but make it look like he did so accidentally.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but anyone know on average how many intentional walks there are per game? And I wonder what the average time of an IBB AB is? I would guess prob around 30-45 seconds or something. A minute tops?

[Guest d'Kong76]

They go DH in the NL and I'll never set foot in a MLB park again. Never.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, looking at Mets games played over the last ten years (beginning with the 2007 season), I found the following numbers:

1,635 games, 950 intentional walks. (Mets batters were intentionally walked 501 times, opposing batters 449 times.)

That comes to an average of 0.58 intentional walks per game.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I saw some estimates that this would save 14 seconds per IW.

[Frayed Knot]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but anyone know on average how many intentional walks there are per game? And I wonder what the average time of an IBB AB is? I would guess prob around 30-45 seconds or something. A minute tops?

From Page 2 of this thread: There were 932 intentional walks in MLB last season, or less than one for every 2.5 games.

So figure that:
- On a night with a full slate of games (15) there'll be an average of 6 IWs
- Estimating 30 seconds saved per automatic IW, that's three total minutes saved
- Meaning that if those 15 games would normally take 2,700 combined minutes to complete [3 hours = 180 minutes x 15 games] we're now down to 2,697 minutes of game time, or 2:59:48 each [2,697 / 15]

If JCL's number of 14 seconds per is more accurate then we're talking about less than 6 seconds/game of 'saved' time rather than 12

[Edgy MD]

This is so hamfisted. Is President Trump running MLB as well?

[Lefty Specialist]

I think they should jazz it up and instead of an electronic light you give the managers laser pointers that they aim at the batter. And then they play Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots are Made for Walking" on the PA system.

Ah forget it, that'd just make things longer again.