Curtis Granderson Sucks

[Guest d'Kong76]

Wonder where he stands on dinosaurs? Funny, the dino thing
came up yesterday or day before on the radio broadcast.

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Wonder where he stands on dinosaurs? Funny, the dino thing came up yesterday or day before on the radio broadcast.

Cause Carl Everett was one of the trivia answers for 'players who played 200 games for both Sox and Mets'

[Frayed Knot]

Granderson's OBP since ASG = .403
Since Sept 1st = .472

[Edgy MD]

Like, it's time to start wondering what kind of MVP points he'll earn. He's second in the league in fWAR among rightfieldios.

1) Bryce Harper Nationals: 8.5
2) Curtis Granderson: 4.9
3) Jason Heyward: 4.5
4) Giancarlo Stanton: 3.7
5) Ryan Braun: 2.8
6) Carlos Gonzalez: 2.7
7) Andre Ethier: 2.6
8) Ender Inciarte: 2.5
9) Gregory Polanco: 1.8
10) Hunter Pence: 1.6
11) Yasiel Puig: 1.5
12) Nick Markakis: 1.4
13) Aaron Altherr: 0.9
14) Chris Denorfia: 0.7
15) Jay Bruce: 0.7

Jay Bruce: aka the guy the Mets were supposed to get in addition to their deadline haul, to prove they were serious.

[Gwreck]

Curtis would not be on my NL MVP Ballot:

1. Bryce Harper
2. Zack Greinke
3. Paul Goldschmidt
4. Joey Votto
5. Jake Arrieta
6. Clayton Kershaw
7. Buster Posey
8. Anthony Rizzo
9. A.J. Pollock
10. Nolan Arenado


Which is not to say he's not having a very good season, but MVP talk is silly, I think.

[Edgy MD]

Well, I'm not saying he's the MVP.

[Gwreck]

And I'm saying he's not worthy of "MVP points" as he isn't one of the 10 most valuable players in the league.

[Ceetar]

Gwreck wrote: And I'm saying he's not worthy of "MVP points" as he isn't one of the 10 most valuable players in the league.

value is only part of it. What about

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

[Edgy MD]

And I'm saying he's not worthy of "MVP points" as he isn't one of the 10 most valuable players in the league.

Yes, I understand that.

[TransMonk]

I'd crown him the Mets' offensive MVP this season, but he doesn't have the "wow" factor that will get him much national attention.

But, that's also one of my favorite things about the year he is having.

[Centerfield]

He has the highest OWAR on the team, so you can certainly make that case. Most of that is a result of staying healthy all year long, but that too is a valuable trait.

And like in the other thread, I am happy to eat crow since he has played lights out in the second half, but this does not mean that the criticism of Granderson was unwarranted.

At the time this thread started, he had an OPS of .690. He had posted an OPS of .714 in his first year with the Mets. The year before that, while playing in a little league field, he posted .724. I'm thrilled he turned it around, but that doesn't mean he didn't suck, or that I was wrong to point out that he sucked.

[TransMonk]

Curtis Granderson Is Your Favorite Met

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Gwreck wrote: And I'm saying he's not worthy of "MVP points" as he isn't one of the 10 most valuable players in the league. value is only part of it. What about 3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

Value is probably most of it, and in practicality, all of it. That third paragraph might, might, just might be used to separate players that are otherwise statistically inseparable . You're not saying that Granderson's good-guyness might get him this year's MVP, or in the top 10? Are you?

[Centerfield]

I was thinking about this, I think the best thing to do would be to trade Granderson this offseason. His value is likely the highest it will be during his contract. It frees up a corner OF spot that can be used to sign someone to offset the likely loss of Cespedes.

Or, alternatively, moving his contract frees up money to resign Cespedes.

I love what he has done this year, but I have my doubts that this can be sustained.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If they trade Granderson, then I think they're going to have to add two outfielders to go with Conforto. I'm happy with Cuddyer and Lagares as reserves, but I don't know if I want to revert to an outfield where they're both starting every day.

[TransMonk]

#offseasonproblems

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: Gwreck wrote: And I'm saying he's not worthy of "MVP points" as he isn't one of the 10 most valuable players in the league. value is only part of it. What about 3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort. Value is probably most of it, and in practicality, all of it. That third paragraph might, might, just might be used to separate players that are otherwise statistically inseparable . You're not saying that Granderson's good-guyness might get him this year's MVP, or in the top 10? Are you?

I'm not a voter (unless you count the IBWAA, which you don't) so it doens't matter. My point was that it's highly subjective. And probably intentionally so.

Carlos Beltran in 2005 finished 12th in MVP voting. (granted, 90 games)

in 2008 CC Sabathia pitched 17 games, half a season, and was 4th.

Matt Holliday in 2009 got 16th place for 63 games with the Cardinals.

Hanley Ramirez in 86 games with the Dodgers in 2013 finished 8th

So there's plenty of precedent for these guys getting votes, if not #1 votes. Unless he goes completely cold, I can almost guarantee he'll get some votes somewhere.

[Edgy MD]

Whether or not your or I think Curtis Granderson deserves MVP ballot support I will nonetheless look for and celebrate if he gets any.

[Ceetar]

I think I'm mixing up MVP candidate discussion here. Oh the bounty. The Riches!

[TransMonk]

This may need to be split, but I was thinking about Harper during our most recent series with the Nats last week. He is having a great year statistically and seems like the odds on favorite to win the NL MVP going away, but nearly every time I have seen him up in a BIG spot for the Nats in a close game this season (and granted, the number of Nats games I've seen this season is tiny when compared to Mets games), he does not come through.

I had to look up his 2015 close/late splits: 92 PA, 71 AB, 14 H, 4 2B, 3 HR, 8 RBI, 20 BB, 25 K, .197/.380/.380/.761 (one of those three HRs was last his second of the game last Wednesday vs. the Mets).

He's got the big conventional numbers hands down, but splits like this matter to me when I determine a player's value to a team, especially when that team under-performs and misses the post-season (potentially).

[Ceetar]

This may need to be split, but I was thinking about Harper during our most recent series with the Nats last week. He is having a great year statistically and seems like the odds on favorite to win the NL MVP going away, but nearly every time I have seen him up in a BIG spot for the Nats in a close game this season (and granted, the number of Nats games I've seen this season is tiny when compared to Mets games), he does not come through. I had to look up his 2015 close/late splits: 92 PA, 71 AB, 14 H, 4 2B, 3 HR, 8 RBI, 20 BB, 25 K, .197/.380/.380/.761 (one of those three HRs was last his second of the game last Wednesday vs. the Mets). He's got the big conventional numbers hands down, but splits like this matter to me when I determine a player's value to a team, especially when that team under-performs and misses the post-season (potentially).

his WPA is way up there though.(win probability added)

[Edgy MD]

Fangraphs puts him fourth among National Leaguers in net WPA, as contrasted to his far-and-away first-placiness in WAR. Believe in clutch or not, that's really meaningful to me.

1) Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 6.84
2) Joey Votto, Reds: 6.60
3) Kris Bryant, Cubs: 5.99
4) Bryce Harper, Nationals: 5.58
5) Andrew McCutchen, Pirates: 5.50
6) Paul Goldschmidt, Diamondbacks: 5.35
7) Matt Carpenter, Cardinals: 4.66
8) Curtis Granderson, Mets: 4.42
9) Adrian Gonzalez, Dodgers: 4.16
10) Carlos Gonzalez, Rockies: 3.83
11) David Peralta, Diamondbacks: 3.22
12) Justin Upton, Padres: 3.18
13) Jung-ho Kang, Pirates: 3.02
T14) Buster Posey, Giants: 3.00
T14) Adam Lind, Brewers: 3.00
16) Matt Kemp, Padres: 2.71
T17) Matt Duffy, Giants: 2.30
T17) A.J. Pollock, Diamondbacks: 2.30
19) Daniel Murphy, Mets: 2.20
20) Yunel Escobar, Nationals: 1.99

Not as way-up-there as a Nats fan might hope, in the great scheme of things. He's in fact dead fucking last in the league in their clutch performance rating. Nobody else is close!

Plus he's a big baby.

[Edgy MD]

Curtis Granderson sucks.

He sucks baseball out from behind the other side of the fence.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Curtis Granderson sucks. He sucks baseball out from behind the other side of the fence.

I couldn't find this thread, because Edgy had already bumped it.

Curtis!!!

[Centerfield]

Mmmm. Crow.

[Zvon]

Doesn't his childhood photo look like someone photoshopped his current day head onto his little boy shoulders?

[Elster88]

Bump.

I thought this too, once.

[nymr83]

Welcome back thread, may we find reasons to keep you on the front page!