Matt Harvey Is NOT the Story

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

@HattMarvey?

He's a dumb, slightly-petulant jock without too much self-awareness.

That this has become a kerfuffle-- or even a discussion beyond "That happened? Huh."-- is far dumber than posting that "obscene" Instagram image was.

[ashie62]

Like Gamblers they always come back...

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think I found a clue! Now, what would Blue want to do with a hospital gown? I'd better get my handy dandy notebook�

This is golden, and should not have been overlooked by other posters in this thread.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Thanks! (I assume not everyone got the reference.)

[Guest themetfairy]

Blue's Clues?

My kids were never quite the right age for that - it wasn't one of our staples.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Thanks! (I assume not everyone got the reference.)

Yeah, that was good.

[metirish]

Blue's Clues with Steve obviously , not the other impostor

[Centerfield]

Blue is getting Tommy John surgery?

Worst news ever.

[Guest vtmet]

Mets fans, media and the Front Office are going to "shocked" when Harvey bolts at the first opportunity in Free Agency...Every thing this guy has done since getting surgery (that he didn't want to do to begin with) has been condemned by somebody...Just let the kid be, he's not even old enough to rent a car yet and everyone is acting like he's doing something wrong for enjoying life a little...

[Guest vtmet]

Centerfield wrote: Blue is getting Tommy John surgery? Worst news ever.

hopefully they keep Mr Salt out of the O.R. until he's sown back up...

[Guest vtmet]

metirish wrote: Blue's Clues with Steve obviously , not the other impostor

isn't that kind of like Pee Wee's Playhouse without Pee Wee Herman?

[Edgy MD]

vtmet wrote: Mets fans, media and the Front Office are going to "shocked" when Harvey bolts at the first opportunity in Free Agency...Every thing this guy has done since getting surgery (that he didn't want to do to begin with) has been condemned by somebody...Just let the kid be, he's not even old enough to rent a car yet and everyone is acting like he's doing something wrong for enjoying life a little...

Harvey is 25. Last I checked, you can rent a car on your left and another one on your right. In New York, you can rent as young as 21, with an added fee.

I refuse to believe he had un-necessary surgery because the Mets coerced him.

Everyone is not acting like anything. I'm not sure where this magic place is where you get to do stupid stuff and everybody ignores it but gives you all the shiny publicity that you want when you are seeking it. If he's expecting to go to there, he can tell me how it is.

I don't care about his finger, but anybody anywhere would expect their team to ask them to remove it. "Ha, ha, oops, I guess so," is a perfectly sound response. Blowing up your account --- the choice of stupid athletes doing stupid stuff since the dawn of Twitter --- just seems so petulant.

[Centerfield]

I found myself waffling back and forth in this debate, then I realized why. Everyone sucks. Everyone involved here shares some of the blame.

Matt Harvey Sucks
Sure. He's a 25 year old kid and some of these guys do stupid things. But not every 25 year old does it, and it doesn't excuse Harvey just because he's young. David Wright doesn't conduct himself this way. Even as goofy as Reyes was, he didn't do it either. Neither have Wheeler, Niese, Gee, Duda, or well, everyone else. He can certainly handle himself better. Come on, you put a picture of yourself on Twitter flipping everyone the bird. How would you expect your employer to react? Edgy is right, blowing up the Twitter account is a tantrum (even if it's one that might be beneficial later on). He will be back on before the end of the year "because so many of my fans told me how much they missed me on Twitter."

The Mets Suck
But we knew this. Twitter has been around for a long time. I would like to see an organization that has a policy and enforces it beforehand rather than being reactionary.

An organization can approach Twitter a few ways:

1. ban Twitter for your players
2. ask that all players screen tweets with PR before posting
3. Set a very clear set of rules as to what can and cannot be posted, with a right to ban twitter for those who violate
4. Do nothing. Hope that young, self-important athletes who are used to locker room talk will not post anything dumb. React after something happens.

So far, the Mets have subscribed to #4. I'd like to see them try #3.

It's astonishing how incompetent the Mets come out looking time and time again. Native American appreciation day. The Harvey-Martino incident. Jeremy Hefner's Chick-Fil-A tweet. The anonymous digs on players. It's pretty clear to me that Jay Horowitz is out of touch and needs to be replaced. A new PR approach could do wonders for improving the organization's image.

And a young athlete coming across as douchy is one thing. It's inexcusable for an organization to come across as this idiotic.

The Fans Suck
Us included. For making this a big deal. For boo-ing Granderson this badly 3 weeks into a season. My god. Keep the boos on the shelf until May. Is that too hard? If some other team offered the same terms as the Mets, I can't imagine why on earth a free agent would want to sign here.

[metsmarathon]

Centerfield wrote: ...I can't imagine why on earth a free agent would want to sign here.

they all come here to wear the same uniform and share the same field as mr. met. can there be any higher honor?

[Vic Sage]

All this, CF, and a bag of chips.

But i am kind of sick of people calling a 25-year old man a "kid". It's not true, and all it does is deflect his own culpability. In fact he's not a "kid"; he's a jock who has apparently lived in a bubble of entitlement since he became a BMOC for giving swirlies to his middle school nerd classmates and then went out and won the "big game". We all know the type. We all went to school with guys like him; for all i know, some of us HERE were guys like him. Not all the rules of civilization apply to this kind of guy; when they suddenly do, he takes umbrage and acts, as Edgy quite rightly characterized it, petulantly.

But here's the thing... I DON'T CARE. He can be fucking supermodels in pairs, flipping off fans, tweeting pictures of his dick, and living the high life all he wants, as long as he takes the ball every 5th day, puts up big numbers, and beats the Braves like a fucking gong. I don't have to like him. I just want him to be great and to help my team win. Is it nicer to root for a guy like David "Captain America" Wright? Yes, it's nicer. But it ain't a necessary condition of my support.

Will all the gnashing of teeth over this drive him away in free agency? who can say? But I'd guess that the Wilpons economic circumstances at that time will have a hell of a lot more to do with it than whining fans.

On a side note, i completely agree with Edgy's view of internet "journalism" which in my view is (as Hunter Thompson said of objective journalism) a pompous contradiction in terms. When journalism serves a societal function, it's because people can trust the news they are getting. That trust is borne out of professional standards, codes of conduct that journalists took seriously for centuries because they were potentially liable for libel if they didn't. Multiple sources, fact checking, attempts at balance, and consequences for failing to meet those standards. None of this exists with any consistency in the wild wild internettian west. People post rumors as if they were facts; they get reposted by aggregating sites without comment, they get referenced as support for subsequent reports denying the original reports, and its all an echo chamber of bullshit deafening everyone and drowning out real journalism in a deluge of unchecked facts, unverified quotes, unidentified sources. And then the professionals, increasingly irrelevant as professionalism is trumped by amateurism, rush to paddle over the same waterfall out of desperation to keep an audience and a job. But the jobs are going away; print is being swept into the dustbin of history, along with the standards of professionalism they maintained for generations. And we are abandoned to an unintelligible cacophony of contradicting and baseless white noise, all sound and fury signifying nothing more than our disinterest in distinguishing what is true from what is entertaining. If we were still living in a democracy, i'd be concerned. But for an oligarchy, we're right on schedule, because all they need to provide us with is bread and circuses.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Centerfield wrote: It's pretty clear to me that Jay Horowitz is out of touch and needs to be replaced.

I think that's right on the money. Jay has an affable public persona, but I think we've seen enough evidence that he's really an asshole. I think the Mets are (or should be) more embarrassed by the way they react to events than by the events that they've been reacting to.

As for Harvey, I don't mind that he has a touch of the spirit of '86. Maybe they need a little more of that. (Andy Martino made a similar point in this morning's Daily News.)

And as for Harvey's middle finger, I think it's ridiculous that a middle finger is offensive if it doesn't have another finger next to it, but it's inoffensive if it does. And that an index finger or a ring finger or a pinkie can stand alone inoffensively while a middle finger can't.

[Vic Sage]

don't get started on the arbitrary and hypocritical nature of obscenity.

The Bible has multiple references to folks riding an ass, but if you ride somebody's ass today, Bible thumpers get all up in arms.
And, as Carlin noted, you can prick your finger in public, but don't finger your prick!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Vic Sage wrote: All this, CF, and a bag of chips. But i am kind of sick of people calling a 25-year old man a "kid". It's not true, and all it does is deflect his own culpability. In fact he's not a "kid"; he's a jock who has apparently lived in a bubble of entitlement since he became a BMOC for giving swirlies to his middle school nerd classmates and then went out and won the "big game". We all know the type. We all went to school with guys like him; for all i know, some of us HERE were guys like him. Not all the rules of civilization apply to this kind of guy; when they suddenly do, he takes umbrage and acts, as Edgy quite rightly characterized it, petulantly. But here's the thing... I DON'T CARE. He can be fucking supermodels in pairs, flipping off fans, tweeting pictures of his dick, and living the high life all he wants, as long as he takes the ball every 5th day, puts up big numbers, and beats the Braves like a fucking gong. I don't have to like him. I just want him to be great and to help my team win. Is it nicer to root for a guy like David "Captain America" Wright? Yes, it's nicer. But it ain't a necessary condition of my support. Will all the gnashing of teeth over this drive him away in free agency? who can say? But I'd guess that the Wilpons economic circumstances at that time will have a hell of a lot more to do with it than whining fans. On a side note, i completely agree with Edgy's view of internet "journalism" which in my view is (as Hunter Thompson said of objective journalism) a pompous contradiction in terms. When journalism serves a societal function, it's because people can trust the news they are getting. That trust is borne out of professional standards, codes of conduct that journalists took seriously for centuries because they were potentially liable for libel if they didn't. Multiple sources, fact checking, attempts at balance, and consequences for failing to meet those standards. None of this exists with any consistency in the wild wild internettian west. People post rumors as if they were facts; they get reposted by aggregating sites without comment, they get referenced as support for subsequent reports denying the original reports, and its all an echo chamber of bullshit deafening everyone and drowning out real journalism in a deluge of unchecked facts, unverified quotes, unidentified sources. And then the professionals, increasingly irrelevant as professionalism is trumped by amateurism, rush to paddle over the same waterfall out of desperation to keep an audience and a job. But the jobs are going away; print is being swept into the dustbin of history, along with the standards of professionalism they maintained for generations. And we are abandoned to an unintelligible cacophony of contradicting and baseless white noise, all sound and fury signifying nothing more than our disinterest in distinguishing what is true from what is entertaining. If we were still living in a democracy, i'd be concerned. But for an oligarchy, we're right on schedule, because all they need to provide us with is bread and circuses.

That's like a $5 million post.

[metsmarathon]

here's the thing.

while i agree that harvy is a big dumb jock doing big dumb jock things, living in his own world where he is the rightful and true center of its universe, around which hte moon and sun and stars all revolve, and damn the mathematics behind it all...

his transgressions have been incredibly mild. incredibly mild. for a guy who kinda oozes douchebagginess (he grew up a yankee fan, right?), what has he really done wrong, other than living in the hype?

he publicly drove a blinged out large SUV to spring training last year. who are we to care how he spends his money and how he gets to spring training? do we expect him to drive a beater '97 civic? good heavens he posted it to twitter! bfd.
he dated a supermodel, and even took her to a rangers game. i guess he should start out dating waitresses from denny's, and only take them to the olive garden, or maybe to a park. but definitely nowhere where they could be noticed, or worse, televised for just being there.
he posed naked for a magazine. the same magazine that jose reyes posed for two years prior. and, really, the photos are less of an embarrasment than the preposterous fully clothed david wright / jose reyes GQ spread from so many years ago.
he wanted to exercise his right to rehab with the team, instead of in the back corner of the middle of nowhere, florida, and publicly argued with the team over it.
he posted a "obscene" gesture regarding his feelings towards tjs, and reacted "petulently" when the organization (probably) reacted negatively. hte obscenity was not directed at or against anybody, and was done out of uniform, far from the playing field.

am i missing anything?

man, what a jerk. run him out of the game already.

seriously. these are his transgressions. what am i missing? you tell me. what has he done that's so godawful?

is he disrespectful towards women or minorities? is there any direct evidence that he is now and/or has been a bully, other than his assumed jockiness? is he abusive, either physically or sexually? is he a drunk, a lecherous lout? is he on drugs? is he selling drugs? does he drown kittens and electrocute puppies? is he still a yankee fan?

i don't fucking get you people.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I could care less about this story. I couldn't give a shit if Harvey tweeted a picture of his asshole or his cock or his wisdom teeth either. It'll entertain me for about 20 seconds, and it might affect my opinion of Harvey, and I might post a snarky comment here if the mood strikes me, but I'll mostly move on.

This story says less to me about Harvey than it does about today's new world, where cameras are as accessible and ever-present as ball point pens and everyone under 25 is conditioned to announce every breath they take and every fart they make.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

And everyone's expected to have an opinion about every one of those farts and breaths, quickly and loudly and without consideration or moderation.

There are no more unsent letters in this world, and that's a damn shame.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I apologize for posting it. I found it interesting only insofar as it underscored the comic hopelessness of the insistence back in camp that Matt Harvey would NOt be the story. Naturally, the only way to keep banal stuff like his soiled underwear and pungent aroma from being a lede is for the team to start careening toward the division championship.

[Guest themetfairy]

metsmarathon wrote: seriously. these are his transgressions. what am i missing? you tell me. what has he done that's so godawful? is he disrespectful towards women or minorities? is there any direct evidence that he is now and/or has been a bully, other than his assumed jockiness? is he abusive, either physically or sexually? is he a drunk, a lecherous lout? is he on drugs? is he selling drugs? does he drown kittens and electrocute puppies? is he still a yankee fan?

Exactly!

Whatever jockiness/douchiness he may or may not exhibit, nothing that he has done publicly seems malevolent.

Are people mad at him for getting injured?

[Guest d'Kong76]

One amusing thing about this (story) is how everyone turns
into a judge. Judge the photo, or judge the reaction, or just the
people who don't react how you react. Judge, judge, judge.

I stand by the stuff just shouldn't be posted on the internet. Can
someone find The Great Bong thread? And to people who smoked
out of a bong one time or another did you 'pose' for pictures with
it? It's just stupid ... like this (story).

I also think some are trying to defend use of twitter without saying
so. But we can talk about that in some other thread.

[metsmarathon]

oh, i think that twitter, and, to a lesser and sometimes greater extent, facebook, is for narcissists and brands, and narcissits who think that they are brands.

i myself like to overeact to collective overreactions by calling for less of a reaction.

this should be a non story and a non issue. but it became a story and an issue, and, well, we're mets fans who like to talk about mets stories and mets issues.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

am i missing anything?

The Qualcomm radio interview.

I don't think this would be a story* if Hovvey hadn't nuked his twitter account; that drew passions of the fans who at some level were relying on him to entertain them and recast he and the team on opposite sides again.

*-At least, not as much of a story, and even then, it's not much.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: am i missing anything? The Qualcomm radio interview. I don't think this would be a story* if Hovvey hadn't nuked his twitter account; that drew passions of the fans who at some level were relying on him to entertain them and recast he and the team on opposite sides again. *-At least, not as much of a story, and even then, it's not much.

It's not a "story". it's a one-liner if anything. volume != importance.

But Harvey nuking his account is the right answer imo. It's a "fuck this noise" response. There's no need to cast him in some epic battle with the organization to fit some narrative and he's choosing to just withdraw from part of it. He became a bit of a lightning rod and thus has been used as a cog in that sort of story. It clearly wasn't worth the hassle to him, which is a shame. He wasn't a particularly interesting guy to follow, but it's sorta sad that he's found it a hassle to engage with the fans at that level.

[metsmarathon]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: am i missing anything? The Qualcomm radio interview. I don't think this would be a story* if Hovvey hadn't nuked his twitter account; that drew passions of the fans who at some level were relying on him to entertain them and recast he and the team on opposite sides again. *-At least, not as much of a story, and even then, it's not much.

right. that. sorry, i'm not here to talk about qualcomm.

is it really the fans making a big deal out of this story, or the media, or the fans making a big deal about the media making a big deal about it?

[Guest d'Kong76]

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Notice the lazy, lazier, laziest trend ...

We need to invent something even more lazy and pronto and
get it to an IPO before it's too late!

[Zvon]

I like the analogy in todays news comparing Harvey to Namath of the early 70's (in NYC). The only difference is Namath played it smart and had style.