Forgive me for asking if we could discuss ... Ryan F. Braun

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Setting twitter aflame again. It kind of makes sense.

[Edgy MD]

It would be fun if the Mets tried to buy low on the whole lot of them --- Cruz, Braun, Peralta, Melky, FMart (and how low is buying low on FMart?), and Everth Cabrera.

Roids? HGH? That's all in the past! Character issues? We're operating a halfway house, here! We're the BiogeneMets! Bring your angle bracelet on up to CitiField and help rebuild your reputation as you help the Mets win the pennant. Don't worry, with Braun here, you'll never be the biggest d-bag in our clubhouse!

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, if the Wilpons are looking for character guys, there's no one better than the guy who cost a UPS guy his job with his lying about taking steroids.

'No' is such a wholly inadequate word.

[Ceetar]

gimme.

[G-Fafif]

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. I was just drawing Keith Hernandez 1983 unforeseen availability parallels in my head.

[Edgy MD]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, if the Wilpons are looking for character guys, there's no one better than the guy who cost a UPS guy his job with his lying about taking steroids. 'No' is such a wholly inadequate word.

Yeah, but that's the fun. Let it leak out that your wholly against douchebagels, depress the market on douchebagels, sign a bunch of douchebagels, declare that "Oh, I don't mean these douchebagels... these dbs are all redeemed!" Go to bank, cash championship check, give Satan a fist bump when you get back to your Lincoln Navigator."

But yeah, Braun's the worst.

[Gwreck]

Braun is signed through 2020 and is owed $127 million over that contract.

The Mets are not acquiring him. This is dumber than the Tulowitzki nonsense that was circulating earlier.

[Ceetar]

He accumulated 2WAR last year. That'd be forth on the Mets offense...

...in only 60 games.

He's got a very team friendly contract, is one of the best players in the game, and is only going into his age 30 season.

If he's available, you want him.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

6/127 is the deal? I'm thinking he has shamed all of the Midwest and the Broos kick in some $$ as a result.

Wilpons know what its like to be taste-challenged repentant Jews, maybe this is a fit?

[Gwreck]

That's 7 years, not 6.

And they're not giving him away free, either; I'm sure it would also cost premium prospects.

I'm quite sure Braun's got plenty left in the tank but we're so obviously not getting him.

[TransMonk]

He's also not only a cheater, but also a proven liar...to his team and it's fans.

So, there's that.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: He's also not only a cheater, but also a proven liar...to his team and it's fans. So, there's that.

how many less hits is that?

[HahnSolo]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wilpons know what its like to be taste-challenged repentant Jews, maybe this is a fit?

Ha ha.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: He accumulated 2WAR last year. That'd be forth on the Mets offense... ...in only 60 games. He's got a very team friendly contract, is one of the best players in the game, and is only going into his age 30 season. If he's available, you want him.

His accumulated a very high LIAR # last year too, he's a two time SOB but I won't CARE if he comes over...but he's not so.....FUCK

[batmagadanleadoff]

At the rate baseball salaries are rising, in a few years you won't be able to sign Mike Pelfrey for what Braun's now earning.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: TransMonk wrote: He's also not only a cheater, but also a proven liar...to his team and it's fans. So, there's that. how many less hits is that?

I don't care...I'd rather lose without him than win with him. Preferably, I'd like to win without him.

I would have to question my fandom if he came to town and could definitely see taking some time off from the Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I wonder if Braun can hit like an MVP while off the stuff?

[metirish]

TransMonk wrote: TransMonk wrote: He's also not only a cheater, but also a proven liar...to his team and it's fans. So, there's that. how many less hits is that? I don't care...I'd rather lose without him than win with him. Preferably, I'd like to win without him. I would have to question my fandom if he came to town and could definitely see taking some time off from the Mets.

Really?, wha about Nelly Cruz or Peralta?

[Edgy MD]

It's not too big a jump to see Braun as a whole 'nother level of miscreant. And Monk has had a front row seat in Wisconsin for his sideshow of backstabbing and corruption. Explicit victims too.

[TransMonk]

Yeah, what Edgy said.

It's not that he cheated. It's that he told the fan base very emphatically that he did NOT cheat...and the fans backed him 100%. He took his suspension last season and has never really explained himself to fans. I don't even remember an apology...although there may have been one. If there was, it wasn't nearly enough to make up for the level of disappointment.

He is Milwaukee's David Wright. Imagine if Wright won an MVP, then tested positive for PEDs, held a press conference at the ballpark telling everyone he was innocent, got off on a technicality and then eventually took a suspension because he was going to be caught again.

I am not surprised at the rumor that Milwaukee wants him gone and may be willing to eat some of his big contract in order to move him. I imagine that the Brewers aren't planning on being truly competitive next year and Braun would have been the reason that fans bought tickets anyway. But that all disappeared when he took the suspension.

I can tell you that most Brewers fans I know will have no trust or admiration for him anymore...even if he does return to All-Star form once off the juice.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can see Sandy standing next to Braun at an introductory press conference. "Yes, we said we only wanted to add 'nice guys', but when an asshole as talented as Ryan Braun becomes available, you sometimes have to adjust your priorities."

[Benjamin Grimm]

Report: Brewers could trade Ryan Braun to Mets Embattled outfielder could provide Mets elite offense at discount rate. By Ted Berg -- November 20, 2013 at 2:26pm EST Here�s a very juicy trade rumor, pardon the pun. According to MetsBlog.com�s Matthew Cerrone, citing "people familiar with the team�s thinking," "there is a better chance the Brewers trade OF Ryan Braun for Mets 1B Ike Davis than deal OF Norichika Aoki." There�s little doubt the Brewers are looking for first-base help after seeing the Major Leagues� worst production at the position in 2013. And general manager Doug Melvin even acknowledged the Mets as a potential trade partner during the GM meetings last week. In Davis and Lucas Duda, the Mets have a pair of lefty-hitting first basemen with big power potential that have not yet managed to consistently hit at the Major League level. Davis endured prolonged slumps to start both the 2012 and 2013 season, but he�s a year younger than Duda, a better defender, and has a slightly better Major League resume, so he�s likely the more coveted trade piece. The Brewers, meanwhile, have a crowded outfield picture, with Braun, Aoki and Carlos Gomez standing in the way of 25-year-old Khris Davis (not to be confused with Orioles slugger Chris Davis), who flourished during Braun�s suspension late in the 2013 season. But no one anywhere near Milwaukee is likely to outproduce Braun anytime soon, regardless of Braun�s history with performance-enhancing drugs. The 30-year-old left fielder has been one of the very best hitters in the Majors since he was promoted in 2007. Unless you believe that all 211 of his homers in seven big-league seasons were entirely the product of illegal substances, it�d be silly to bet that he�ll be anything short of a great hitter for the foreseeable future. If the Brewers are eager to get a fresh start without the disgraced face of their franchise, Braun could present a tremendous opportunity for any club willing to overlook his indiscretions and pick him up at the nadir of his value. And under GM Sandy Alderson, the Mets have not shied away from players with PED stigma attached to them, including 2013 success story Marlon Byrd. Milwaukee owes Braun $113 million over the next seven seasons, which might give pause to the cost-conscious Mets. But Cerrone�s report suggests the Brewers would be willing to eat part of Braun�s salary, giving Alderson an opportunity to pick up an elite offensive performer to pair with David Wright at below market value. The amount of money the Brewers are willing to take on likely depends on how desperate they are to move on from Braun. But if it�s enough to get his salary down into a range that seems palatable to the Mets, it seems like there�d be another team willing to jump in with something better than Davis to offer. The Mets do have pitching prospects with which to sweeten the pot, though. The specifics will make the deal, of course. And Braun�s is a complicated case complicated further by his hefty contract. But on face, it looks like potentially a great way for the Mets to add the impact bat they covet without sacrificing a draft pick and overpaying for a free agent, and a way for the Brewers to move on from Braun and pick up a potentially useful young player in the process. Will all Mets fans be thrilled to see their team acquire a guy with a troubling history of not only using performance-enhancing drugs but also flatly lying about it? Of course not. But until the Mets can start throwing around money like they did in the early part of the last decade, the front office will need to be creative to find players of Braun�s ilk, and nothing comforts a conflicted fan quite like winning.

This line makes a lot of sense:

But if it�s enough to get his salary down into a range that seems palatable to the Mets, it seems like there�d be another team willing to jump in with something better than Davis to offer.

[Ceetar]

this one too

The Mets do have pitching prospects with which to sweeten the pot, though.

[Edgy MD]

The if-he-was-any-good-another-team-would-want-him-more logic applies to everybody.

Somehow, though, the Mets do find players --- some of them good, some of them affordable, and some small amount both.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

TransMonk wrote: He's also not only a cheater, but also a proven liar...to his team and it's fans. So, there's that.

It's not like he's running for president. OK, so bad example.

If we can get the Brewers to eat a bunch of his contract and if he can still mash, I'd be on board.

The goal is to win, not win only with guys whom I'd invite over to watch "Field of Dreams" or babysit my kids.

Raising the Apple a whole bunch of times goes a long way towards redemption.

[Edgy MD]

There's some legitimate disagreement as to whether there is a moral element to the goal. Else, there's always the Yankees.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy MD wrote: The if-he-was-any-good-another-team-would-want-him-more logic applies to everybody. Somehow, though, the Mets do find players --- some of them good, some of them affordable, and some small amount both.

That's true enough. I guess my point was that it was unlikely that the Brewers would pay off a big chunk of Braun's contract just to get Ike Davis.

But to your other point...

The Mets, if I recall correctly, were considered very unlikely to be the ones to get Pedro Martinez. And Johan Santana. And Carlos Beltran. And Mike Piazza.

And they were considered likely to get Juan Gonzalez. And Alex Rodriguez.

[Frayed Knot]

It's not that he cheated. It's that he told the fan base very emphatically that he did NOT cheat...and the fans backed him 100%. He took his suspension last season and has never really explained himself to fans. I don't even remember an apology...although there may have been one. If there was, it wasn't nearly enough to make up for the level of disappointment.

As I recall the timeline:
- at the first suspension he not only denied but promised explanations ... which never came
- then after the getting off via the technicality he trashed the collector, implying personal prejudice along the way, and acted as if the whole thing vindicated him
- he then got caught the very next year and agreed to a longer than dictated suspension (65 days vs 50) rather than allow the details to become more open by fighting it. IOW, a public airing wouldn't have made him look very good so why not take the entire year (Brewers weren't going anywhere anyway) rather than go through an awkward late-season return



None of which means he should be shunned for life or anything. One would think this whole thing has made him at least a little bit humble and contrite and maybe a bit less douchy (although I wouldn't count on it) and his status probably subjects him to more frequent future testing.
Certainly I wouldn't want the Mets to dismiss it all out of hand.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And even if the Brewers don't throw in any money at all, his contract averages to about $16 million per year the rest of the way. That's not by any means a low number, but it's also not super high by today's standards. And by the time that contract ends in 2020, there will probably be a lot of players making a lot more than that.

[Zvon]

I dunno about Braun. That'd be one huge sideshow.