Camouflage Uniforms

[G-Fafif]

Nothing wrong with a good idea fitted appropriately to its environs. The bridge inside the ballpark works and nods, implicitly if not overwhelmingly, to the team logo and the idea behind it. Because somebody else celebrated a home run or encouraged a singalong doesn't make the Mets intellectual-property thieves for doing something in that vein. It's the straight-out "let's do 'Sweet Caroline' because it's awesome at Fenway" kind of thinking that's depressing. I'd place the camo uniforms, given their connection to San Diego, in that category. Wear khaki. Wear navy blues. Do something that isn't exactly what the Padres have been doing for years.

[G-Fafif]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Mascot races? And they're polling fans on this? I didn't even know about this but what another embarrassment.

This was 2010, so it wasn't yet stale, only done. But not done the Mets way!

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's just pretend for a second that Ceetar's right and that the Mets are no lamer than any other franchise when it comes to their lack of originality, lack of imagination, lack of conviction and lack of self awareness. How is that OK?

oh, It's not. but holding up the Mets as some sort outlier seems silly to me. It's baseball as a whole that's the conservative un-imaginative lump.

But on the other hand, they're under no obligation to innovate either, not is it ever going to make everyone happy if they did decide that their self-image was going to be a different one.

Of course, if they are going to get original, I prefer they keep it based in entertainment and leave politics and the military out of it. You can honor and promote those things, and those causes, but don't intermesh it with your identity.

But again, give me some examples of other teams, even other sports, doing something that you like/find imaginative and fun?

G-Fafif wrote: It's the straight-out "let's do 'Sweet Caroline' because it's awesome at Fenway" kind of thinking that's depressing.

Of course, the Fenway-Caroline was itself copied from somewhere else, a local college team or something if I remember correctly. And that's what I mean about the entire sport being full of this stuff. (and hell, the NY Rangers were playing Sweet Caroline as well, so it's not like it's a Mets copy-cat thing either)

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Mascot races? And they're polling fans on this? I didn't even know about this but what another embarrassment. This was 2010, so it wasn't yet stale, only done. But not done the Mets way!

Now that's a mascot race I'd pay to see.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Mascot races? And they're polling fans on this? I didn't even know about this but what another embarrassment. This was 2010, so it wasn't yet stale, only done. But not done the Mets way! Now that's a mascot race I'd pay to see.

As far as something gimmicky to watch between innings, I'm all for mascot races. Although it really should be airplanes. And there's really no reason they still can't represent the Shea levels. Hell, pick out 4 cute kids from the stands, strap on silly colored arm-wings and have 'em flap-race for a prize. Or is that too minor leaguish?

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's just pretend for a second that Ceetar's right and that the Mets are no lamer than any other franchise when it comes to their lack of originality, lack of imagination, lack of conviction and lack of self awareness. How is that OK?

It's not. But the cure for unorginality and the lack of a commitment to distinctiveness is pretty easy to get at. Let's go, Mets, and whatnot.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's just pretend for a second that Ceetar's right and that the Mets are no lamer than any other franchise when it comes to their lack of originality, lack of imagination, lack of conviction and lack of self awareness. How is that OK? oh, It's not. but holding up the Mets as some sort outlier seems silly to me. It's baseball as a whole that's the conservative un-imaginative lump.

I think that the whole point is that they're not any sort of outlier. They've aimed square at the middle, in virtually every respect. And the thing is, even if you take into account the cost of failures, it actually behooves them to try different things; their main local competition is the hidebound, traditionalist selling-pinstripes-to-a-pinstripe-crowd folks, and trying new and different and goofy and populist-- along with, y'know, being a Senior Circuit team in a Senior Circuit town-- is how they got their first set of diehard fans. Differentiating yourself from the competition (locally and otherwise) and giving folks an ethos-- however prefab it is in actuality-- gives you insulation from the economic vagaries of stock-market weirdness or "rebuilding years."

I mean, hell, leave aside the what-the-Mets-should-do vs. Corporate Entity leitmotif for a second; originality draws attention and eyes, and making your corporate strategy "damage avoidance/limitation" guarantees that when the inevitable embarrassment comes, you'll have no cover. I'll spend time and a little bit of money for old-times' sake. You want the rest? Come get it. Give me-- a baseball-inclined New Yorker-- a reason to spend my money here instead of at the other place, or the Big Apple Circus, or the Met.

Give me a Lazy Mary lip-synch contest, or weirdo Mandarin/Korean/Spanish/Hebrew versions for the Cultural Days. Give me a miltary-veteran Wiffle Ball Home Run Derby, or Talent Contest. Give me a "7 Train" bullpen car. Give me an onsite "Piggie's Garden" that fans can visit, and maybe one that provides onsite vendors with fresh, ultralocal produce. Give me Agee, Cleon, Piazza, and Mo Markers in the seats/concourses. Business Entity in The World's Most Diverse Set of Zip Codes-- woo my fucking business.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Certainly and true.

On the other hand, when they get attacked for every fucking thing, it's not exactly going to encourage them to stake out bold, outside-the-box, comfortable-in-our-own-skin territory.

That's why, when Greg joked about becoming the VP of tradition and fan experience or whatever, I was hoping he wasn't joking.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I think that the whole point is that they're not any sort of outlier. They've aimed square at the middle, in virtually every respect. And the thing is, even if you take into account the cost of failures, it actually behooves them to try different things; their main local competition is the hidebound, traditionalist selling-pinstripes-to-a-pinstripe-crowd folks, and trying new and different and goofy and populist-- along with, y'know, being a Senior Circuit team in a Senior Circuit town-- is how they got their first set of diehard fans. Differentiating yourself from the competition (locally and otherwise) and giving folks an ethos-- however prefab it is in actuality-- gives you insulation from the economic vagaries of stock-market weirdness or "rebuilding years." I mean, hell, leave aside the what-the-Mets-should-do vs. Corporate Entity leitmotif for a second; originality draws attention and eyes, and making your corporate strategy "damage avoidance/limitation" guarantees that when the inevitable embarrassment comes, you'll have no cover. I'll spend time and a little bit of money for old-times' sake. You want the rest? Come get it. Give me-- a baseball-inclined New Yorker-- a reason to spend my money here instead of at the other place, or the Big Apple Circus, or the Met. Give me a Lazy Mary lip-synch contest, or weirdo Mandarin/Korean/Spanish/Hebrew versions for the Cultural Days. Give me a miltary-veteran Wiffle Ball Home Run Derby, or Talent Contest. Give me a "7 Train" bullpen car. Give me an onsite "Piggie's Garden" that fans can visit, and maybe one that provides onsite vendors with fresh, ultralocal produce. Give me Agee, Cleon, Piazza, and Mo Markers in the seats/concourses. Business Entity in The World's Most Diverse Set of Zip Codes-- woo my fucking business.

Oh I agree, I just don't think the Mets are unique in that (haha) they're aiming at the middle. the "If I wasn't already a fan I wouldn't be one" stuff seems over the top. But I think you're overstating the cost of failure in these ventures or the value in succeeding.

I don't have kids right now, so I'm not sure I can speak to the family outing angle, but it does seem like I see a whole lot of facebook and Twitter posts and photos of kids having blasts at games. Why spend your money at a Mets game instead of the Circus, or the Movies, or the Hall of Science? well, because it's baseball. Because you're allegiances already lean one way, it's Mets over Yankees.

But yes, there are probably millions of people in the middle that bandwagon and flip flop. But I'd argue that the mains reasons they'd go to Citi over Yankee stadium are things like location, winning, their friends are going, it's not across any bridges, I can park, or the tickets are cheaper. Things like "I want to check out that cool mascot race!" or "Star Wars night!" are way down on the list that I think the return on the investment to make these things really truly interesting isn't worth it for them, even if maybe it should be for simple quality of experience purposes.

And I would love them to go that extra mile. This is how I described Oktoberfest at Citi Field, clearly a melding of two of my big interests and the only reason I went to that particular Mets game. Better than nothing, but nothing special.

And I guess to sorta disprove my point.. http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/oak/schedule/events/beerfest.jsp Oakland's beerfest put's it to shame. They do in fact go the extra mile.

[Vic Sage]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's just pretend for a second that Ceetar's right and that the Mets are no lamer than any other franchise when it comes to their lack of originality, lack of imagination, lack of conviction and lack of self awareness. How is that OK? oh, It's not. but holding up the Mets as some sort outlier seems silly to me. It's baseball as a whole that's the conservative un-imaginative lump. I think that the whole point is that they're not any sort of outlier. They've aimed square at the middle, in virtually every respect. And the thing is, even if you take into account the cost of failures, it actually behooves them to try different things; their main local competition is the hidebound, traditionalist selling-pinstripes-to-a-pinstripe-crowd folks, and trying new and different and goofy and populist-- along with, y'know, being a Senior Circuit team in a Senior Circuit town-- is how they got their first set of diehard fans. Differentiating yourself from the competition (locally and otherwise) and giving folks an ethos-- however prefab it is in actuality-- gives you insulation from the economic vagaries of stock-market weirdness or "rebuilding years." I mean, hell, leave aside the what-the-Mets-should-do vs. Corporate Entity leitmotif for a second; originality draws attention and eyes, and making your corporate strategy "damage avoidance/limitation" guarantees that when the inevitable embarrassment comes, you'll have no cover. I'll spend time and a little bit of money for old-times' sake. You want the rest? Come get it. Give me-- a baseball-inclined New Yorker-- a reason to spend my money here instead of at the other place, or the Big Apple Circus, or the Met. Give me a Lazy Mary lip-synch contest, or weirdo Mandarin/Korean/Spanish/Hebrew versions for the Cultural Days. Give me a miltary-veteran Wiffle Ball Home Run Derby, or Talent Contest. Give me a "7 Train" bullpen car. Give me an onsite "Piggie's Garden" that fans can visit, and maybe one that provides onsite vendors with fresh, ultralocal produce. Give me Agee, Cleon, Piazza, and Mo Markers in the seats/concourses. Business Entity in The World's Most Diverse Set of Zip Codes-- woo my fucking business.

this. and maybe "ball girls" in string bikinis who do lap dances between innings. You know, in tribute to Ozone Park strip clubs.

[Edgy MD]

The funny thing is that, with the launch of so many post-Camden ballparks, the resident team would do a cheap knockoff of Boog's Barbecue, naming a greasy pit-stop after some beloved and high-quality-but-not-quite-Hall-of-Famery colorful team character with appeal to veteran fans. The Mets had a picture perfect opportunity to do the same, having just such a character on the payroll, and he happened to have a well publicized history as a gormet rib chef.

Yet with the most obvious in the world idea on a tee, they chose not to swing. AMAZIN'!

In fact, they had a small Rusty's Ribs kiosk type establishment in Shea's not-quite-final seasons, but ixnayed it, in favor of the Citi Field Preview Center. So, instead of being a vehicle to launch a lame-o, half-assed, obvious brand expansion, Citi helped squash one. It's AMAZIN' BUT TRUE!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, Keith Hernandez has a burger stand in the food court above the rotunda. I heard Gary mention it on a broadcast and Keith seemed surprised to recall that he had lent his name to that place.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think Keith's burger thing was there last time I looked for it. By then of course 70% of the concessions were closed.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't think Keith's burger thing was there last time I looked for it. By then of course 70% of the concessions were closed.

Keith's burger place is in left center. I think they opened up a satellite one up in the Promenade in 2012, but it didn't stick.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The one on the Promenade was the only one I was familiar with. I think I saw it there in April 2013, but I can't be sure.

[metirish]

I love this thread.......

[metsmarathon]

its not nothing, but they did bring back banner day. i don't know if any other teams out there really do that. and while the wilpon regime sure didn'y come up with it, and may have put the kibosh on it, they must get some inkling of a leadership credit for bringing it back when nobody else currently offers such a thing.

also, i'm not sure how many other teams do "kids run the bases" promotions. i'm sure they all must (and certainly should), but i ain't looked into it. so i'll tentatively give them a whisper of a credit for that one.

what innovative things do other teams do that the mets could jump onto and be on the leading edge of a trend instead of hopping onto the bandwagon as everybody is getting off of it? i really don't know...

quick, somebody say the 'knocking down a fairly new and perfectly adequate stadium to move to some other place nearby that serves the same city" trend!

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: also, i'm not sure how many other teams do "kids run the bases" promotions. i'm sure they all must (and certainly should), but i ain't looked into it. so i'll tentatively give them a whisper of a credit for that one.

Every weekend!

When did it stop being called dynaMets dash and start being called Mr. Met's Dash, and what was a dynaMet anyway?

[Lefty Specialist]

The Mets, for whatever reason (Cheapness? Lack of imagination? Fear of success?) just don't know how to promote this team. Fred's always been a Dodger fan; if he could buy the LA Dodgers and move them to Brooklyn, he'd do it in a heartbeat, Mets be damned.

And I think that Fred got out ahead of himself when Citi was planned. "Holy shit, I CAN BUILD MY OWN EBBETS FIELD!" he thought. And so it was. If Abe Stark were still selling suits, he'd have put a sign there instead of the yellow Subway sign. His Dodger-love was so obvious when you had a Jackie Fucking Robinson Rotunda, but nothing dedicated to the history of the Mets, and no blue and orange anywhere in the ballpark. It was like, "Damn, I own the Mets, but I wish I had the team I really loved."

Now obviously Fred wants to win with the Mets since he knows he's never getting the Dodgers. But there's a schizophrenic feel to the whole organization. While he wishes he could have the Dodgers, everybody else (including Jeff) is disappointed that they're not the Yankees. The Yankees don't have to promote stuff- they're the YANKEES. Promoting a team is hard especially when you're being beaten 27-2 where it counts. In the 80's, when things admittedly were being run differently, there seemed to be at least the attempt to generate excitement ('Catch the Rising Stars') even if we laugh at it now.

That was replaced eventually by the obnoxious classic 'Show up at Shea' which meant that if things weren't good, it was YOUR fault, dammit. Now it's a case of, 'We built you a new ballpark, what else do you want?' Easy, low-hanging fruit in the baseball-promotion biz is just ignored by these people (like a Rusty's rib joint). It's like they know they can't be as popular as the Yankees so they don't even try. They even show Derek Jeter Ford commercials on Met broadcasts. Odds of a David Wright commercial appearing on a Yankee broadcast? Zero.

It's a lot of little stuff that just grates on you after a while. There just doesn't seem to be a plan to market this team.

[Ceetar]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Odds of a David Wright commercial appearing on a Yankee broadcast? Zero.

I don't watch much Yes, so I don't know if Lincoln advertises, but if Wright whored himself out as much as Derek does, there'd be no avoiding it.

But back in '07ish, there were definitely Beltran/Delgado "Visit Puerto Rico" type commercials on YES.

[G-Fafif]

DynaMets was the SportsChannel-era precursor to Kids Clubhouse. The name stuck on the Dash long past the show's cancellation. Think it's been Mr. Met Dash throughout the SNY era but I couldn't swear what year it switched. The run-around-the-bases thing wasn't a Met original -- Howie, when he was still Mets Extra'ing, pointed out what a great promo it was where he'd seen it in operation and strongly suggested the Mets adopt it. They took him up on it in 1994, the year they were breaking their necks to appear "fan-friendly," post-fireworks.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

metsmarathon wrote: realizing it would be an escape from the team's colors, but what would work a hell of a lot better on a digital camo uniform would be if the team name were piped in matte black, with tan/olive fill, matching the actual uniforms on our soldiers. have the only color be the colors of the flag. and probably the manufacturers logo because they can't help themselves... it wouldn't solve the gi-joeing of the game, but it would help the aesthetic a ton. also, ugh, god, no mascot races. unless everybody is going to dres up in jay horowitz mascot costumes, i don't want to see it. we don't need giant costumed skyscrapers, or giant costumed bridges, or happy bouncing checks, or... whatever... running around. maybe giant costumed apples could work. tying in nicely with the home run thingy (and sponsored in part by fruit of hte loom?)... but i still really don't want to see it.

Giant cats! In Mets jerseys. Shea was famous for all its stray cats -- especially the black on that ran in front of the Cubs dugout in 1969. People in cat costumes named Casey, Felix, Terrific and Mookie.

[Guest themetfairy]

1994 was also the year of the Nickelodeon Extreme Baseball park behind right field at Shea.

[G-Fafif]

Keith's Grill has hung in there since 2011. It sometimes generates a line. The Rusty's kiosk at Shea didn't make it out of the '90s, but it sure as hell seemed a natural for revival come Citi Field. Then again, as a FAFIF reader suggested, so would've a Mex's Taqueria.

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: metsmarathon wrote: realizing it would be an escape from the team's colors, but what would work a hell of a lot better on a digital camo uniform would be if the team name were piped in matte black, with tan/olive fill, matching the actual uniforms on our soldiers. have the only color be the colors of the flag. and probably the manufacturers logo because they can't help themselves... it wouldn't solve the gi-joeing of the game, but it would help the aesthetic a ton. also, ugh, god, no mascot races. unless everybody is going to dres up in jay horowitz mascot costumes, i don't want to see it. we don't need giant costumed skyscrapers, or giant costumed bridges, or happy bouncing checks, or... whatever... running around. maybe giant costumed apples could work. tying in nicely with the home run thingy (and sponsored in part by fruit of hte loom?)... but i still really don't want to see it. Giant cats! In Mets jerseys. Shea was famous for all its stray cats -- especially the black on that ran in front of the Cubs dugout in 1969. People in cat costumes named Casey, Felix, Terrific and Mookie.

And have 'em all running away from a mangy cat in a Phillies or Cubs jersey?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Of course, the apple has been around for about 30 years. If that's the last time the Mets did anything innovative, they're in quite a slump.

If the Crane Pool Forum was around 30 years ago, I'm pretty sure many of the people here would be ripping the Home Run Apple -- or was it called Mets Magic Apple back then -- it and calling it an embarrassment.

[G-Fafif]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Giant cats! In Mets jerseys. Shea was famous for all its stray cats -- especially the black on that ran in front of the Cubs dugout in 1969. People in cat costumes named Casey, Felix, Terrific and Mookie.

Terrific would be a Tom cat.

Wilpon would probably veto "Giant cats," insisting on the Dodger breed.

Homer the Beagle, Leo the Black Cat, Mettle the Mule and, if only they had resigned his namesake, Marlon the Byrd.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

G-Fafif wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: Giant cats! In Mets jerseys. Shea was famous for all its stray cats -- especially the black on that ran in front of the Cubs dugout in 1969. People in cat costumes named Casey, Felix, Terrific and Mookie. Terrific would be a Tom cat. Wilpon would probably veto "Giant cats," insisting on the Dodger breed. Homer the Beagle, Leo the Black Cat, Mettle the Mule and, if only they had resigned his namesake, Marlon the Byrd.

Love it!

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Hello. I am baseball's first mascot. I was introduced by the Mets! Many people have copied me since then.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Of course, the apple has been around for about 30 years. If that's the last time the Mets did anything innovative, they're in quite a slump. If the Crane Pool Forum was around 30 years ago, I'm pretty sure many of the people here would be ripping the Home Run Apple -- or was it called Mets Magic Apple back then -- it and calling it an embarrassment.

I don't think that's true. Sure it was a little cheesy but at the time it represented the beginnings of some promise and much-needed investment in the club and its image which had suffered from years of underinvestment. And what we're talking about here isn;t necessarily that we'd criticize something new (although we might) but that the idea for new things are so bereft of originality and creativity.