Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: What are they doing to get kids involved? Well, they do have a Mets Kids Club, and they do that "kids run the bases" thing a few times a year. And don't they have a weekly show in SNY aimed at kids? I know they once did, but I don't know if it's still on.

They have a whole kids area in Center Field. Kids are free this weekend. The best way of course is to win so that fringe fans bring their kids because they want to go, and they enjoy themselves.

[metirish]

Well, I will say that I love taking my son to CF, it is very kid friendly.....I don't think we would do the run the bases thing again.....more like "hurry the fuck up and don't stop", the wait was not worth the payoff....

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem.

[Ceetar]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem.

don't they give you free tickets, a mets cap, etc? what else are they supposed to give you?

[Edgy MD]

Eight-year-olds are the worst.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy MD wrote: Eight-year-olds are the worst.

Tell me about it, my eight-year old nephew is a Yankee fan based on too many of his classmates being MFY fans, though at least he knows he is breaking his Uncle/Godfather's heart.

[Edgy MD]

And while I'm making insupportable generalizations, I oddly enough find eight-year-old girls to be wonderful. They could run the world as far as I'm concerned.

Second-grade somehow works differently on the different genders.

[HahnSolo]

Ceetar wrote: Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem. don't they give you free tickets, a mets cap, etc? what else are they supposed to give you?

Another issue: at Shea, the fan club did give you 2 tickets in addition to all the other crap. When they first moved into Citi, they no longer included the tickets. I think that has changed, but that's another example of a way they messed with their fans with the new ballpark.

[stevejrogers]

FWIW, I would be pushing harder and needling him about the MFY's, but his mother, my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him, and not "crazy" team specific stuff and banter about why one team is better than another.

One day the kid shows me a Derek Jeter kids book that he picked up at a book sale, I smirked and said "You know I don't like that!"

His mother reacted as if I grabbed the book out of his hands, ripped it to shreads and yelled "I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE YOU READING THIS FUCKING SHIT, YOU LITTLE SNOT NOSED ****! ONLY METS STUFF, I NEVER WANT TO SEE ANY COCK SMOKING YANKEE SHIT IN YOUR ROOM, EVER! FOR ANY GOD DAMNED REASON!"

Geez, I know the kid wanted to show me that he was interested in reading about baseball, it wasn't like I made him cry! But pretty much she doesn't want him to get caught up in the whole "root for one team" thing.

[G-Fafif]

The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W.

But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory.

I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs.

MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars).

The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments.

I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers.

[Benjamin Grimm]

SteveJRogers wrote: my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him

Why should anything be "pushed on him"? Let him develop his own interests.

[stevejrogers]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him Why should anything be "pushed on him"? Let him develop his own interests.

Oh I agree, she doesn't like it when I give him some good natured ribbing about certain teams. That kind of was my point about smirking and jokingly saying I disprove of the Jeter book. He knows I'm a massive Met fan, so it would stand to reason that I would tease him about Yankee stuff or stuff from teams the Mets play against often.

[Frayed Knot]

G-Fafif wrote: I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs.

It's often seemed to me that the Ws simply didn't care much about the Mets prior to when they owned them and specifically before they owned them completely. Looking back, in other words, would remind them of an era which they weren't a part of; or of a stadium that they hated; or of a co/majority-owner who they'd rather forget. The result was that putting as much ground between that era and "theirs" became a priority. aka: Jerry Grote? ... who's he?

[Edgy MD]

I've come around on Randy Bachman and think he's a swell and thoughtful guy, but "Takin' Care of Business" always seemed like an obnoxious and unclever way to mark a win, and actually dimmed the glow a bit rather than brightening it.

[HahnSolo]

Flying Willie out to Anaheim only to fire him at 3 AM NY time (following a win, no less).

Not that firing Willie was wrong in and of itself. It's the circumstances around the whole thing.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Fred is the one thing that keeps us from the rule of Jeffy - things will only be worse when Fred is gone.

I don't necessarily believe that.

Now don't get me wrong: I think Jeff probably is the snotty, cereal-eating, undeserving, born-on-third-base, kinda guy we believe him to be, but his Dad is the one with the boner for the Brooklyn Dodgers and the University of Michigan and Bud Selig and Bernie Madooff and his slimy Brother in Law Saul and Omar Minaya and Art Howe.

[Guest themetfairy]

Cereal-eating?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I thought it's a well-known fact that Jeff bosses the interns around to buy him cereal, which he eats in his office at the park. And if it isn't it should be, since it fits the snotty, manchild image of his.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It makes sense, in that possibly-hypothetical formulation, that his taste is a little childishly off.

[Guest themetfairy]

It rings a bell - I had forgotten that.

Of all of my complaints about Jeffy, this isn't one of them. At least he isn't making them cook gourmet meals or anything.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers.

If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion.

G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.)

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I don't know. In a way, it's worse that Jeffy's theoretical assistants are jumping through hoops for Froot Loops, rather than sous-vide duck confit.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

A question for you guys. If the Shake Shack is so good that the line last three innings, why don't they put more of them around the ballpark? Seems like it would make fans happy and add more revenue.

[Guest themetfairy]

Because if they had Shake Shack everywhere, then being able to get it with waiter service in the Delta Club would seem less special.

[G-Fafif]

A bit on the cereal thing here.

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W....

As far as I'm concerned, eff Wilpon was the de facto majority owner since the early 90's Al Harazin era. eff's been running the team ever since. By then, Doubleday was so repulsed and demoralized from having been outmaneuvered and outlawyered out of his majority share of the team, that the publishing heir essentially threw his hands up in disgust and walked away from the Mets.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[dgwphotography]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers. If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.)

MGIM - you beat me to it. The same thoughts have invaded my fantasies of buying the Mets after the biggest lotto payoff in history...

[G-Fafif]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers. If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.)

If I was paid enough, the beverages with which people stock their fridges would no longer be an overriding professional concern of mine.

I'll get back to you on specifics.

[batmagadanleadoff]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.)

You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall.

[seawolf17]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.) You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall.

Dream come true. I would LOVE Topps to do a "career" series with the Mets -- all the players whose Mets debut was in 1962 on 1962 cards, then any new players in 1963 on 63s, and so forth. Then you could sell the update each year with all the Aaron Harangs and Sean Henns every year.