Hot Seat Terry

[batmagadanleadoff]

When Bob Klapisch says so, it's official! Terry Collins is on the hot seat.

Klapisch: Mets' Terry Collins losing grip on manager's job

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 Last updated: Wednesday May 1, 2013, 12:30 AM
By BOB KLAPISCH
RECORD COLUMNIST

The countdown on Terry Collins began on the first day of pitchers and catchers and nothing so far has made it any easier to believe he�ll be back with the Mets in 2014. Of course, Collins has handled his lame-duck status with grace and maturity � he�s an honest guy, good with people � but that hasn�t stopped Sandy Alderson from letting his manager continue to drift away from the mother ship. Collins, no dummy, knows he would�ve already received a vote of confidence, even in private, if Alderson and Jeff Wilpon were entirely sold on his body of work. Both men know what job security � or its absence � does to a manager�s standing in the clubhouse. Without a commitment from ownership, Collins looks like a short-timer on a bad team, a latter-day George Bamberger. The current six-game losing streak, including embarrassing back-to-back losses to the Marlins, doesn�t help his cause, either. So what�ll it take for Collins to avoid being fired, even before the end of the season? A more robust roster would help, obviously. In the meantime, he has to prove to the front office that the Mets are listening to him, and that he�s relevant enough to relate to the next wave of stars � particularly Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and Travis D�Arnaud. Collins� relationship with David Wright is solid, as it should be. But just as Davey Johnson had built-in ties with Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry and Ron Darling, among others, in 1984, it�s Wally Backman, not Collins, who has a head start with the 20-somethings who�ll be at Citi for the rest of the decade. The best-case scenario for Collins is to keep the Mets around .500 and then finish out September with a modest surge. The over-under on that algorithm is 82 wins, which might be enough for Collins to get rehired. It�s highly improbable, especially as it already feels like the season is slipping away. But, with five months still remaining, nothing is impossible. Not yet. Part Two of Collins� must-do list is even more critical. He has to become a master tactician, in the same conversation with, say, Buck Showalter, able to get the most out of a below-average club. Collins had a particularly bad series against the Phillies over the weekend, especially in his choices with the bullpen. On Saturday, the Mets were trailing the Phillies by only a run in the fifth inning, yet Collins summoned Robert Carson, the last pitcher on his staff. The results were disastrous, as Carson instantly surrendered five runs. Collins inexplicably used a mop-up man in a close game and paid dearly. The following day, Collins flubbed a more complex set of choices, allowing Ryan Howard to beat the Mets with a pinch-hit, two-run double in the seventh. With Kevin Frandsen at the plate in a tie game and runners on first and second, Collins decided Jonathon Niese had reached his limit after his 117th pitch. Collins wanted Scott Atchison, a righty, to face Frandsen, also a righty. But why? Surely, Collins must�ve known that Atchison�s appearance would prompt Charlie Manuel to use Howard off the bench. Didn�t Collins know Howard was a career .421 pinch hitter and was the last guy the Mets wanted to see? But that�s exactly how it played out, because Collins didn�t want to bring a lefty like Scott Rice to face Frandsen. Instead, he gambled on Atchison versus Howard, and promptly got smoked. The Mets were swept and haven�t won a game since. These are the ways Collins is being judged from now on. Call it unfair, and you�d be right, because there are so few assets for Collins to draw upon, especially in the bullpen. But like it or not, this is an audition and Collins is already struggling.

http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Klapisch_Mets_Terry_Collins_losing_grip_on_managers_job.html?page=all

Terry Collins is officially on the hot seat
Craig Calcaterra
May 1, 2013, 10:00 AM EDT

Terry Collins is not under contract for 2014. That alone makes his job security a tenuous proposition at best. But Bob Klapisch notes that he�s on even shakier ground than that: "Without a commitment from ownership, Collins looks like a short-timer on a bad team, a latter-day George Bamberger. The current six-game losing streak, including embarrassing back-to-back losses to the Marlins, doesn�t help his cause, either. So what�ll it take for Collins to avoid being fired, even before the end of the season? A more robust roster would help, obviously. In the meantime, he has to prove to the front office that the Mets are listening to him, and that he�s relevant enough to relate to the next wave of stars � particularly Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and Travis D�Arnaud." Considering Wheeler isn�t on the Mets and D�Arnaud is on the DL for a long time, well, good luck Terry. You sorta have to figure that Collins is bright enough to know that he was hired to be a caretaker manager. It�s a respectable gig. In light of that I find worrying about his job to be way less interesting than wondering who might replace him. I figure that the Wally Backman truthers will come out strong again soon. And I figure it�s silly to think that Backman won�t get a chance to manage the Mets at some point. I just wonder whether he�s the next guy or the next-next guy.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/01/terry-collins-is-officially-on-the-hot-seat/

[MFS62]

There's an old baseball adage that says since you can't fire the players, you fire the manager.
But, before they do that, how about firing the hitting (and I use that term loosely) coach?

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

Why can't they fire Byrd?* He's on pace for almost 500 plate appearances. Who the hell here wants to see that? Raise your hand if you do.



*For starters. Then fire some other starters.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

You sorta have to figure that Collins is bright enough to know that he was hired to be a caretaker manager.

I think the word "caretaker" carries certain connotations that Terry wouldn't agree with, but certainly he knows from Day 1 he's in a turnaround situation and likely to hand the baton to the "next level" guy unless he accomplishes the impossible with this group. To suggest otherwise is to think the Mets hired Collins because he's an idiot, and I don't believe that.

I think it's highly unlikely he gets fired unless he starts bickering with players or going on drinking binges or something.

[Benjamin Grimm]

A 12-game losing streak, and a lethargic team, could cause Terry to get fired, even if he stays sober and out of jail.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Alas, I think a 12-game losing streak is also unlikely.

[Ceetar]

MFS62 wrote: There's an old baseball adage that says since you can't fire the players, you fire the manager. But, before they do that, how about firing the hitting (and I use that term loosely) coach? Later

I like the hitting coach, and am not going to fire him over a bad week. (Warthen, on the other hand, has had years of bad bullpens, and the starters without talent haven't exactly flourished, or quickly)

I think the question marks for Hudgens are Ike's slow starts (but can you then credit him for helping him break out of it last year?) and Tejada hasn't really taken a step forward. But he has to get some credit for Duda so far, and Wright has seemingly gone back to flourishing under his watch. Murphy is Murphy, and everyone else might not be talented enough to save.

[metirish]

Surely the front office are getting exactly what this team was built for ? Alderson skates but he shouldn't.

[Edgy MD]

I'm getting the impression that Terry was never really so much the hothead he was portrayed as being. But he was so sensitive to that notion arriving with his hiring here, that he's over-corrected and is over-playing the mother hen part of his job. (I frankly get the notion that he's very good and passionate about developing young players.)

I think more of the fire that helps weld a team together and excite them for battle would be nice to see. The guy that's convinced his team can lick any comers even when all evidence says otherwise. If he's really on the hot seat, I hope he lets Battling Terry off the leash before he goes. If nothing else, it'll give us some entertainment and a chance to see if there was anything to the caricature in the first place, and give the team a man on fire to rally around.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: (I frankly get the notion that he's very good and passionate about developing young players.)

He WAS minor league field coordinator before he took the job after all. Sure, he doesn't know Wheeler or d'Arnaud (and really, does Backman know d'Arnaud better than Collins for getting an extra two weeks with him in Vegas?) but he knows Duda and Ike, Tejada and Niese and Gee, etc. All possible parts of a long term future, not to mention that both he and they are there now.

Clearly Klap is running with the complete rebuilding, gonna scourge flushing of all but Wright, Harvey, and the top prospects idea, but the 'knows the players' already angle is bs mostly. From what I can see, I trust Collins more than Backman with a young 'up and coming' team anyway.

[Edgy MD]

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.

Agreed.

I'd rate the post-Valentine bunch as:

Collins
Randolph
Manuel
Howe

... with a wide gap between the first two.

Manuel's best traits were probably more useful for a time than Howe's but his worst traits were more damaging, so I can flop 'em as needed.

Collins, Randolph, and Howe all have seemed utterly self-conscious. Manuel was the loosest of the bunch, but often that led to an obliviousness to a glaring oversight.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: but the 'knows the players' already angle is bs mostly.

Agreed, but whose angle is that?

OE: I get it, the Johnson-in-1984 angle.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.

I will agree with that too.

I also think Edgy's onto something. Let's see Terry get a little fired up.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all. I will agree with that too. I also think Edgy's onto something. Let's see Terry get a little fired up.

I think he gets fired up some. He certainly did last night right? at least got harsh?

I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph.

I'd probably rank 'em

Collins/Randolph/Howe/Sandy Alomar/other random one-day stand-ins/The drunk guy yelling from behind the dugout/Manuel

[batmagadanleadoff]

No Quality Control
01 May 2013 by Howard Megdal

I�m genuinely surprised by the number of people who think Terry Collins should be fired today. This is a roster that nobody can win with. I can�t say that with absolute certainty, since we haven�t seen any other manager try. But I�m hard-pressed to understand why anyone thinks so. Look, even Sandy Alderson understood how limited the roster was this winter. And either he made a conscious choice to not spend money he was offered, which strikes me as ridiculously unlikely, or the huge financial limitations of the team�s owners is once again manifesting itself, this year a bit earlier than in past seasons. What do you think? People have been comparing this awful loss Tuesday night on Twitter with other recent awful ones. It�s pretty simple: when a decision is made to stock a major league roster with players that really aren�t major leaguers, some of the results are going to be utterly absurd. Anthony Recker is 29 years old. His career OPS+ is 41. So he�s got to be here for defense. And his passed ball/wild pitch combo last night certainly didn�t meet the minimum standard for defense-first catcher. But really, we know why he�s here. Anthony Recker makes the league minimum, and the Mets were able to sign him on a minor league deal. So many of the true howler losses happened for the same reasons. No money for a center fielder? Well, Mets have a Jordany Valdespin hanging around. Let�s see what happens when they stick him in center field, despite a complete lack of minor league training? This is what happens. Basic building of pitching depth was missing in 2012. Remember Chris Schwinden? Freely available. Remember Collin McHugh? He happened to be in the system. This is not a plan, by the way. This is triage. Can only afford one lefty reliever? Well, abuse him. Then the next guy. What other options do you have? This isn�t anything new. It isn�t about Terry Collins, or Sandy Alderson. No left fielder? Put Daniel Murphy there. Let�s see what happens. No backup first baseman? Let�s see what happens when Jeremy Reed, a career outfielder, gives it a go. Hey, Lucas Duda can hit. Maybe he can play right field! Oh, right, he can�t. Maybe left field? This is the pernicious result of ownership starving the team of resources. At the top, there�s no ability to add star power, so things like the pursuit of Michael Bourn become a sham. No free agents left? Fred Wilpon has money again! (Except he doesn�t.) But the rest of the roster is filled not by need, or by basic attempts to compete, but with bits of string. And the shocking losses shouldn�t come as a shock to anyone. Rebuilding does not have to mean forgoing even basic attempts to compete by bringing in talent on short-term contracts, or building minimal depth to withstand any injuries. �I�m pissed off. I�m extremely pissed off,� Collins said after the game. He�s smart enough to know who to be angry at. Are you?

http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/05/01/no-quality-control/

This is what I say. Fire Byrd, ferchrissakes!

[Edgy MD]

I�m genuinely surprised by the number of people who think Terry Collins should be fired today.

People like blood.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph.

I don't think I mean to suggest that showing more fire = screaming at umpires.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph. I don't think I mean to suggest that showing more fire = screaming at umpires.

well, it's one of the few ways we can see it as fans without it having to be force-fed us through the broadcast looking for it or the beatwriters reporting it. But I'm sure fans and the media were demanding more fire, and getting thrown out was simply a specific suggestion of how.

i.e. Just let Collins manage how he thinks is best. That's his job, don't appease the media's desire for a lame-duck narrative.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'll concede that he's a better manager than anyone who's had the job since Bobby Valentine was fired. But that's damning with faint praise. I'd like a really good manager, and that's not Terry. So yes, I'd like to see him go. I just wish I had more confidence that the next guy will be an improvement.

A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be.

[Edgy MD]

That sounds like faint praise, too. And for Backman's part, it sounds like baldfaced self-promotion.

I suddenly want Lee Elia.

I hope we get fuckin' hotter than shit, just to stuff it up them 3,000 fuckin' people that show up every fuckin' day, because if they're the real New York fuckin' fans, they can kiss my fuckin' ass right downtown and PRINT IT!

[metirish]

But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?, they are what they are. During the late innings last night Keith was getting exasperated as is his wont with the the outfield this time for being too deep and not moving in with the game on the line " you don't need a coach to tell you this", "this is baseball 101". I'm watching thinking wow that's damning right there.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?, they are what they are. During the late innings last night Keith was getting exasperated as is his wont with the the outfield this time for being too deep and not moving in with the game on the line " you don't need a coach to tell you this", "this is baseball 101". I'm watching thinking wow that's damning right there.

difference of style though. Duda, for instance, is much more comfortable coming in. Granted, you don't want to be too deep, but one person's too deep is another's just right. Keith has different feelings about things like the shift and guarding the line too. Keith's certainly biased, having playing defense at a higher level than the average baseball player, especially these days.

But there have been more examples than that too. Is the bench coach supposed to be double checking positioning? You gotta get stuff like this ingrained though, and isn't that why they fired Mookie?

[G-Fafif]

Edgy MD wrote: And for Backman's part, it sounds like baldfaced self-promotion.

No, Wally still has his mustache.

[Edgy MD]

metirish wrote: But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?

I don't know. But I have little doubt that some managers get more from some players than others do.

[Lefty Specialist]

Edgy MD wrote: metirish wrote: But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players? I don't know. But I have little doubt that some managers get more from some players than others do.

I'm guessing Wally would tell them to send the Baxters and Reckers to Las Vegas.

I don't see the value of firing Terry and bringing in Wally right now. We all knew from the git-go that this team was going to suck this year- there were just too many holes. No outfield. 40% of a starting pitching staff. Relievers born during the Nixon Administration. Two closers, one who can't pitch, and um, one who can't pitch. Suspect defense. These are not the building blocks of a successful year.

The past few years, this team has had similar sorts of holes and they've been able to kind of keep it together until the All-Star break, when someone sneezes and the house of cards collapses. It's just happening earlier this year. In a way, that's good; it's three fewer months when Jeff Wilpon can delude himself that he can win without spending any money.

Wally, bless his little fireplug of a soul, wouldn't make enough of a difference to matter. He can't play the outfield or pitch seven solid innings (and even if he could, the bullpen would blow it). It's better for all concerned to let the detritus sort itself out, for the bottom to be scraped, for warm July nights of under 10,000 at the ballpark to be displayed for the Wilpons to see.

If I'm Backman, I don't want to walk into that situation. I'd rather walk in with a fresh start in 2014 and hopefully a little more money to be spent on players, some of which he's helped mold, and some of which he has input on selecting.

Now, if it's offered, Backman will take the job. He's consumed with managing in the majors after the D-Backs snatched it away from him a few years ago. He might make a small difference, but not enough to remotely turn this team around this year.

[metirish]

Would you believe that the D-Backs job was 2004?.....damn, times flies.....

[Lefty Specialist]

Wow, I didn't realize it was that long ago. Wally must be awfully itchy. It's like he was the Moonlight Graham of major league managers.

[duan]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be.

I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.

[Zvon]

duan wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be. I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.

Might be better to have a manager who's already crazy as opposed to driving him there. I still support Collins. Unless he's batshit stupid I always want to support the current manager.