Hot Seat Terry

[Guest vtmet]

duan wrote: I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.

Billy Martin worked out pretty well for the Yanks and A's in short doses...everything about him screamed sociopath as well, which was one of his better personality traits...not a long term solution, but effective at lighting a fire under his teams butt until they grew tired of his antics...

the one that would scare me is our Bench coach, Bob Geren (who from the sounds of it was not liked at all by his former players)...

[Edgy MD]

Yabbut, from the sound of it, neither was Terry.

It's a volatile field. They've all left some bad relationships in their backgrounds.

As far as Martin, well, let's just hope that Backman is about 100% less flammable.

[Frayed Knot]

Also, what's the point in putting up a short-term solution type of manager (assuming, for purposes of the argument that that's what Backman is) to lead a team that most assume is not in a quick-fix type of situation?

[Guest vtmet]

Frayed Knot wrote: Also, what's the point in putting up a short-term solution type of manager (assuming, for purposes of the argument that that's what Backman is) to lead a team that most assume is not in a quick-fix type of situation?

I'd rather get a chance to evaluate Backman as an Interim manager before giving him a chance at the start of Spring Training...that way you get a chance to see how he handles things without a long time commitment...Right now, our biggest weakness is that we don't have any kind of a catalyst/sparkplug to wake out our offense...I really don't know how Backman would be as a manager, but as a player, he was a pest at the top of the order helping to create good hitting situations for the meat of the order...While he may not have any more answers than Terry has, at least he knows that part of the big guys getting the key RBI is because of the guys that got inside the pitchers'/defense heads in front of the Keith's/Gary's/Strawberry's...

did you see how Sandy handled managers in Oakland before finally getting Tony LaRussa?

Billy Martin left after the 1982 season, and Alderson took over in time for the 1983 season...
1983: Named Steve Boros manager;
1984: After 44 games, Boros was fired; Jackie Moore was hired;
1986: Jackie Moore was fired after 53 games; Jeff Newman was hired;
1986: After a 2-8 record; Jeff Newman was fired & LaRussa was hired;
By the way, Jackie Moore and Steve Boros produced records that weren't any worse than Terry Collins' record with the Mets;

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/

[Edgy MD]

I don't think Terry Collins is unaware that table setters --- and aggressive baserunners when you can get 'em --- are a positive asset for a team.

[Guest vtmet]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think Terry Collins is unaware that table setters --- and aggressive baserunners when you can get 'em --- are a positive asset for a team.

I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy (then again, he was also spoiled in Oakland with Rickey Henderson, who had OBP, speed and power)...

[Frayed Knot]

vtmet wrote: I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy ...

Mine too.

Besides, when Backman hit .320 in '86 his top of the lineup contributions were a key piece. But the following season when his OBP fell 80 points to barely .300 his "catalyst" magic wasn't quite as effective.

[Guest vtmet]

Frayed Knot wrote: vtmet wrote: I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy ... Mine too. Besides, when Backman hit .320 in '86 his top of the lineup contributions were a key piece. But the following season when his OBP fell 80 points to barely .300 his "catalyst" magic wasn't quite as effective.

but there needs to be a balance there...a slow guy that gets on base often doesn't help; and a fast guy that can't get on base often doesn't help either...a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...

[Valadius]

Why can't we put Jeffy on the hot seat?

I really wish American sports teams were publicly-traded companies.

[Edgy MD]

vtmet wrote: but there needs to be a balance there...a slow guy that gets on base often doesn't help;

I'll disagree. I feel certain that batmagadanleadoff would also disagree. I'll even disagree with the notion that a fast guy that doesn't reach base very often doesn't help, depending on how not-very-often we're talking about.

I'm sure the goal isn't to proceed with Ruben Tejada reaching at a .333 clip.

I'm not sure what you're proposing Backman or anybody would or should do with the leadoff spot. Valdespin is an option, but that's certainly not clear.

[Guest vtmet]

with the current cast of characters and what we have at AA/AAA, I don't know if anyone could really come up with a decent leadoff hitter...I'm thinking that trading Angel Pagan when we lost Reyes to Free Agency probably wasn't the smartest move in the world (although Pagan/Collins didn't appear to be as good of a matchup as Pagan has in SF)...

[MFS62]

Catcher Del Crandall frequently batted second (behind Billy Bruton) for the Braves on their WS teams of the late 1950s. His highest OBP was less than .350 and he never stole more than 5 bases in a season.
(Of course, the hitters who followed him included Aaron, Matthews and Adcock, so Del wasn't called upon to steal very much.)

Later

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I dismiss anything written by Klapish from the get-go.

Why would you fire Collins after one bad week? That makes no sense. He didn't pick the outfield a bullpen. And I don't see any superstar manager waiting out there to slip in his place. You'd be looking at a Frank Howard-type of long-term interim.

Unless something abdominal happens, let him finish the season and go from there.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

vtmet wrote: a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...

The, um, home runs and triples and doubles may have something to do with that.

The whole managerial-influence-over-wins-and-losses issue notwithstanding, I have a feeling that Wally at the head of this team would be as effective as yelling at a pneumonia patient to make them better.

[Guest vtmet]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: vtmet wrote: a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP... The, um, home runs and triples and doubles may have something to do with that. The whole managerial-influence-over-wins-and-losses issue notwithstanding, I have a feeling that Wally at the head of this team would be as effective as yelling at a pneumonia patient to make them better.

lol...that one immediately made me think of that Geico commercial that has a former Army Drill Sergeant as a Psychologist (yelling at the mamby-pamby guy on the couch)...

XfmVBmDKLZI

[Edgy MD]

I don't get what we're talking about? Will appointing Wally Backman bring about the next Jose Reyes --- a player whose presence Terry Collins is somehow keeping away?

I mean, if we're talking about Valdespin, then by all means, let's talk. We have a thread about him and everything.

[metirish]

Terry getting lots of support from the writers, a sure sign he is on the hot seat.

[metsmarathon]

i would advocate murphy for leadoff, but good heavens, his obp is only 0.330!

[metirish]

Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) tweeted at 6:53 PM on Fri, May 03, 2013:
Alderson on possibility of firing TC: ""That's not something that has entered my mind or any mind within the organization." Full story ahead

(

)

Get the official Twitter app at https://twitter.com/download

[Edgy MD]

I like how Sandy knows the unspoken thoughts of the entire organization. SCARY!

[Guest vtmet]

Edgy MD wrote: I like how Sandy knows the unspoken thoughts of the entire organization. SCARY!

he's told his organization: this is my thinking, and if you don't think this way, you can find employment elsewhere...

[Centerfield]

Terry's move in the tenth last night (letting Parnell see a pitch, sending Valdespin, then getting Baxter only after he made it) was the first time I can remember ever going from: "What the fuck is he doing?" to "OH! That makes perfect sense!"

I'm not kidding. That was a great fucking move.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Terry's move in the tenth last night (letting Parnell see a pitch, sending Valdespin, then getting Baxter only after he made it) was the first time I can remember ever going from: "What the fuck is he doing?" to "OH! That makes perfect sense!" I'm not kidding. That was a great fucking move.

It was shockingly crafty. It sounds mean, but it's a level of strategy I don't really expect from Terry. I love it, it IS a great move. Now I'm surprised I haven't seen it before.

[Frayed Knot]

And even the downside to it all wasn't all that down.

You figure normally that stealing with the pitcher up is a pretty dumb move seeing as how the pitcher's spot leads off the next inning if the runner is out.
But in this case Terry was already on his fifth reliever, Parnell had just bailed them out of a one-out/winning-run-on-3rd situation on a not-too-tough total of 14 pitches and was certainly your best shot to shut down the Braves in the bottom half or else there wouldn't even be a next inning. Then figure that the odds of scoring with a runner on 1st & 2-outs aren't all that good no matter who's up so "wasting" an AB there is arguably worth getting another inning out of supposedly your best reliever (and I'm arguing that it is).

So you try the steal and if it doesn't work then at least you get Bobby Pee for one more inning at which point you'd PH for him anyway but you'd be spending that PH-er to start an inning rather than (probably) end it. But then once the steal works the calculus changes.


btw, add the above scenario and all its permutations as reason # 35,487 as to why the DH rule suxxx.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: btw, add the above scenario and all its permutations as reason # 35,487 as to why the DH rule suxxx.

indeed. screw the AL.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I loved it. Gonzalez never saw it coming, otherwise he could have pitched out. The temperature on Terry's seat just went down a few degrees.

[Edgy MD]

Great points. And great framing of the situation by Centerfield and the former Leftfield.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Between that freak-genius steal/PH call and "against the book" usage of Parnell to begin with, along with a few other decent calls... I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that last night might have been Terry Collins' finest in-game management as a Met.

[Frayed Knot]

Of course two innings earlier we were knocking him for being too quick on the Lefty/Righty switches.

[ashie62]

Managers are so committed to roles and such that I see little difference between any two managers, but thats just me..