Olivo? (Catchers in Thirteen)

[Vic Sage]

Mets are considering Miguel Olivo as the platoon partner for Thole this year.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/12/5/3733064/mlb-winter-meeetings-mets-miguel-olivo

some power, with a good arm. Can't be worse than Nickeas.

[metirish]

Does he have a nice body to go with that power and good arm?

[Edgy MD]

Hopefully, their ambition exceeds "better than Nickeas."

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Olivo seems very Barajassy to me.

Anyone know what if any plate skills Anthony Recker brings? We know he can hit AAA pitching anyway.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Why zero interest in bringing Shoppach back? #anotherwarmbody

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

He was fat and he sucked.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Y'know, as opposed to marble-chiseled Miguel Olivo and Throb.

Really, though? Olivo? I'd almost rather have Throb back.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Either last night or Tuesday night Guys! made reference to Shoppach's personality as a reason he's not likely to return. Apparently there is no lack of fat sucky guys with positive dispositions out there.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Now you're just BEGGING for Throb.

[Edgy MD]

I got Shoppie early in the season in my OotP 2012 replay, and even his electronic alter-ego is annoying.

[Ceetar]

Ted Berg wrote: Mets with better OBPs than Miguel Olivo in 2012 include: Josh Thole, Kelly Shoppach, Mike Nickeas, Rob Johnson, Jon Niese, Chris Schwinden

[Edgy MD]

So, what you're saying is... he should be affordable?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ceetar wrote: Mets with better OBPs than Miguel Olivo in 2012 include: Josh Thole, Kelly Shoppach, Mike Nickeas, Rob Johnson, Jon Niese, Chris Schwinden

He may walk less than Stephen Hawking, but at least he hits one out every so often.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It seems like we're in an era when almost all catchers suck. That means that the goal is to get the guy who sucks a bit less than the other guys.

[Edgy MD]

And that's why I'm here to help!

[list:2wwnbxrb][*:2wwnbxrb]Koyie Hill sucks less than Nickeas.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Henry Blanco sucks less than Hill.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Matt Treanor sucks less than Blanco.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Ronny Paulino sucks less than Treanor.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Humberto Quintero sucks less than Paulino.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Chris Snyder sucks less than Quintero.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Yorvit Torrealba sucks less than Snyder, and played for three teams in 2012 proving it.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Brian Schneider sucks less than Torrealba, but for how long, Schnied? HOW LONG?![/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Wil Nieves sucks less than Schneider.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Rod Barajas sucks less than Nieves, but it's a hard call.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Miguel Olivo sucks less than Barajas.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Kelly Shoppach sucks less than Olivo.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]Mike Napoli sucks less than Schneider.[/*:m:2wwnbxrb]
[*:2wwnbxrb]A.J. Pierzynski sucks less than Napoli[/*:m:2wwnbxrb][/list:u:2wwnbxrb]

Pretty much the dotted line between "sucky, but could be an asset," and "not really that sucky" occurs between Shoppie and Napoli. I apologize if some of these suckers area already off the suck market, but, you know, there's clearly no shortage.

Sorting these suckers out is where the rubber hits the road in professional souting.

I think the Mets hit the trade market. Trade a modest pitching prospect (Mark Cohoon) for Taylor Teagarden or somebody else who may still have some time to prove he's not as sucky as all that.

[ashie62]

Pierynski does not suck...

I am still waiting for Thole to develop ala Todd Hundley.

[Edgy MD]

I tried to say that at the bottom., but he's gonna sign with the Yankees, which is about the suckiest thing a player can do.

[MFS62]

Oliva's numbers don't seem all that terrible.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olivomi01.shtml

His offense hadn't declined much with age. Defensively, he throws out a decent percentage of baserunners, but he has led the league in PB a number of times. If they signed both of them, I wouldn't use him when Dickey is pitching. But other than that, looking at Edgy's list, they could do a lot worse.

Later

[seawolf17]

Which numbers, exactly, are you looking at? The .239 OBP last year? The 85 Ks and SEVEN walks? Olivo brings nothing to the table that you don't already get from Josh Thole, except MAYBE a little pop.

[MFS62]

seawolf17 wrote: Which numbers, exactly, are you looking at? The .239 OBP last year? The 85 Ks and SEVEN walks? Olivo brings nothing to the table that you don't already get from Josh Thole, except MAYBE a little pop.

And that little pop would be acceptable in the platoon role he would fill.
He's not a long term solution by any means. But he is what he is. And if he could be signed for a reasonable price, its acceptable.

Later

[Vic Sage]

What do you think we're going to get, shopping at the discount store?

while OBP is obviously a critical component of any player's offensive contribution, all we're looking for is a low-cost platoon partner for Thole, who'll play against LHPs and hit toward the bottom of the order, and can give us more than we got from Nickeas/Shoppach/Johnson in that role last year. All we need for that is a guy who can slug a bit and throw ok.

Is Olivo the best available guy fitting that description? Dunno, but I bet Sandy does.

[A Boy Named Seo]

All I know is Olivo sucks less than Barajas but more than Shoppach. Edgy, how much does Arencibia suck?

Ken Rosenthal sez Jays will let us have him for Jon Niese. I'd take a catcher from them for Jon Niese, but that catcher's not JP Arencibia.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'll flip Gee for Arencibia but I'm concerned his teammates might get depressed.

[Edgy MD]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Edgy, how much does Arencibia suck?

Probably as much as Shoppie, but, you know, younger, cheaper, more chance of improvement.

It's funny to think Shoppach burned some bridges with his personality. The Mets have a long history of treating catchers with personality issues as assets.

[Chad ochoseis]

Jarrod Saltalamacchia sucks a little less than Arencibia, but a lot more than Napoli.

As much as Thole sucks, I'm not sure he sucks much more than any of the non-Napoli or Pierzynski people on that list. If the going rate for Arencibia is Niese, I'd rather suffer through another season of Thole/Nickeas or Recker.

[Edgy MD]

We can improve on Nickeas 2012. Maybe we already have. But if we don't think we can do that, there's little reason to get up in the morning. For Terry, for Nickeas himself, or for any of us.

[Guest vtmet]

I don't think that the Mets are going to see a difference between being a winner or a loser based on which catcher they attain for 2013 vs 2012...but still, they have got to come up with a plan for the future at that position...Mets catchers have pretty much sucked for a long time, with no end in sight...They've been so bad that Omir Santos offensive/defensive stats from 2009, look pretty solid in comparison...

[Ceetar]

I'm just hoping Thole's OBP reverts and continue hoping for a legitimately very good outfielder to be the big upgrade to the offense.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think that the Mets are going to see a difference between being a winner or a loser based on which catcher they attain for 2013 vs 2012...but still, they have got to come up with a plan for the future at that position...Mets catchers have pretty much sucked for a long time, with no end in sight...They've been so bad that Omir Santos offensive/defensive stats from 2009, look pretty solid in comparison...

I see it as the relative failure of the Mets catching delegation makes it even more likely that it's a place that meaningful improvement can mean a real difference to the team.

I mean... what I means to say is... check out the bb-r WAR numbers for the Mets catching staff.

• Josh Thole: -0.1
  
• Mike Nickeas: -0.9
  
• Kelly Shoppach: 0.1
  
• Rob Johnson: -0.2.

In theory, just by getting replacement level production from behind the plate, the Mets are already 1.1 wins better than 2012. If they get somebody in a Mets uniform playing decently back there, maybe two or three wins. That's a pretty short road to a meaningful improvement.

[Guest vtmet]

Edgy MD wrote: In theory, just by getting replacement level production from behind the plate, the Mets are already 1.1 wins better than 2012. If they get somebody in a Mets uniform playing decently back there, maybe two or three wins. That's a pretty short road to a meaningful improvement.

I see your point, but with the Mets history in recent years in the undervaluing of catchers, combined with their salary range that they supposedly have to work with, combined with the available free agents...I just don't see a significant improvement for the 2013 season (which IMO, is less important that getting a catcher that projects better down the road)...

Mets had Rod Barajas initially in 2010...he put up 12 HRs and 11 doubles in less than 300 Plate Appearances; and because his other skills were so poor, he still have a 0.0 WAR for the Mets...

Paulino in 2011...11 doubles, 2 HRs, .268 average & still put up a negative WAR for the Mets...

If I remember correctly (memory isn't working as good as it used, by the way)...The Mets had a chance to sign Ramon Hernandez as a Free Agent in the 2005-2006 off season; and I believe they were close to signing him to a multi-year deal but then backed off and chose to trade for Paul Lo Duca instead (because I believe that what was left on Lo Duca's deal was less than what Hernandez would have cost)...