Davis-Duda: This Time It's Personal

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Of course the Deep Throat that leaked this story to Rubin also had to tear down Davis at the same time. So Wilponny.

But at least they're finally talking about what we as a forum have been talking about. I'm wide open to this idea. Davis has zero wheels, prone to awful slumps, is a slow healer and lest we forget, is the son of an MFY. If he could bring us back an outfielder who could hit, geez we oughta consider it.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't like the idea of committing to Duda, though. I hope that if they do trade Davis, that there's a better player that they can turn to to play first base.

[metirish]

I'd explore it , no doubt, I do wonder how bad Duda would be at 1st? Can he play the position?, not expecting Mex here but he doesn't strike me as having much coordination.

[MFS62]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't like the idea of committing to Duda, though. I hope that if they do trade Davis, that there's a better player that they can turn to to play first base.

First base has been a possible destination for Wilmer Flores ever since the scouts (and fans) saw him run.

Later

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Of course the Deep Throat that leaked this story to Rubin also had to tear down Davis at the same time. So Wilponny. But at least they're finally talking about what we as a forum have been talking about. I'm wide open to this idea. Davis has zero wheels, prone to awful slumps, is a slow healer and lest we forget, is the son of an MFY. If he could bring us back an outfielder who could hit, geez we oughta consider it.

Unfortunately, even though he's got more value than the Duda, I'm not sure about how rare/valuable power-hitting-lefty-first-basemen-who-are-pretty-good-with-the-glove-but-have-no-other-position are.

I'm thinking that's about the most he could net us-- an outfielder who could potentially hit.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Davis has a 134 OPS+ post-ASG. On a team that can't buy home runs facing a realistic possibility of losing its next best HR hitter, trading him would be an act of lunacy.

Edgy DC wrote: Fucking deviant.

These are NSW Police. Fucking deviants, indeed.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Unfortunately, even though he's got more value than the Duda, I'm not sure about how rare/valuable power-hitting-lefty-first-basemen-who-are-pretty-good-with-the-glove-but-have-no-other-position are. I'm thinking that's about the most he could net us-- an outfielder who could potentially hit.

Who's going to cost a lot more $$$.

[Vic Sage]

you trade whichever one gets you back more. Neither has earned much more consideration than that, so far.

[smg58]

So the one guy on the team whose power numbers haven't plummeted is the guy who doesn't listen to the hitting instructor. Doesn't that say more about the hitting instructor?

I don't like it when people associated with the Mets say negative things publicly about players on the team. That's poison.

This reminds me too much of what the Mets said about Angel Pagan last year. Pagan doesn't appear to be holding the Giants back any.

Oh, and you never want to sell low on a guy. You certainly don't want to be the ones lowering the guy's value, either.

[G-Fafif]

It's too late. Justin Turner has already organized another theme road trip in which the players all dress up and enlisted Josh Thole to lend support.

[G-Fafif]

"I am not a late-night carouser," insists player implied to be late-night carouser.

Ike Davis was surpised and confused Tuesday morning to read that the Mets were concerned about his nightlife habits. ESPN, citing a "baseball source," reported that the team was open to trading the first baseman, in part because "he is out too late after games." "I have never missed games or not been ready to work because of anything to do with staying up too late," Davis told the Daily News Tuesday morning. "I show up every day. I play hard. It is unfair to me, and it doesn't make sense." While the 25-year-old said that, since he does not often leave the ballpark until midnight, he is sometimes out a few hours after that - the norm among many in baseball - he does not do so in excess. "I just don't understand it, because I have always been able to play, except for one freak ankle injury," Davis said, referring to the 2011 on-field collision that ended his season. According to team insiders, the Mets are debating whether to make Davis or Lucas Duda the first baseman of the future. The team "won't shop either aggressively this winter, but will be open to the right deal for either," according to one club source.

In a possibly related story, members of the Chicago Cubs and Pittsburgh Pirates admit they were out very late last night.

[Zvon]

smg58 wrote: I don't like it when people associated with the Mets say negative things publicly about players on the team. That's poison.

I agree, this is bad stuff. Personally I think Rubins just trying to stir up some shit.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Zvon wrote: smg58 wrote: I don't like it when people associated with the Mets say negative things publicly about players on the team. That's poison. I agree, this is bad stuff. Personally I think Rubins just trying to stir up some shit.

Come on, that's the least likely explanation. What's in it for Rubin to pass along inaccurate information?

I am certain someone said this about Davis, and to one of the most widely read reporters on the beat. It's not like it was a mistake.

The Mets do this over and over.

[metirish]

Davis should move in with Wright , end of.

[Edgy MD]

It'd be pretty interesting if there was a belief in the Mets front office that Davis's glacial start was tied to some egregious party foul, or seriies of.

"... sources say Davis had no idea she was Baxter's sister."

[G-Fafif]

Molehill grows.

In response to an ESPNNewYork.com report about potentially being traded this offseason, Ike Davis disputed allegations from a baseball source that he is resistant to coaching and out too late. "I don't really have an answer for that because it's never been an issue," Davis said. "I've never done anything wrong. I show up to the field ready to play every day. I really don't even know where it's coming from, and it's not really true. It is what it is. People can say whatever they want. It's not going to bother us. "I don't know what 'late' is, because when you leave the ballpark at 12 [midnight] and you get back to your place at 12:30, if you watch a movie it's 2:30. Is that late? It's up to everyone to decide what late is. If I had a job where I had to wake up at 6 in the morning, it would probably be late. But it's not. Our lifestyle is a little different. "I've never had a meeting. Nothing," Davis continued, when asked about whether the issues had been raised with him. "It's just out of the blue. It's hard to answer questions when no one can say who it was or why they even said it. I don't know if it's a cheap shot. It's falsely accused, I guess. It comes out of nowhere. It happens to athletes like this -- a rumor or something is said and it's blown out of proportion." As for the resistance-to-coaching suggestion, Davis added: "If you've seen my stances this year, we've tried a lot of things. I don't know about the 'uncoachable' thing. I don't know who would ever say that. I've done everything the coaches have asked me. It's really just a bunch of unknown statements. I talked to the coaches, and none of them said they said it. You can talk to teammates, coaches and everybody says the opposite. I don't know what to tell you, because it doesn't really make sense." Said Terry Collins: "There's not a coach in that office, there's not the manager, the front office that has ever brought up a problem with Ike Davis. You cannot do in today's game what Ike Davis has done, play 141 games suffering from valley fever at the same time -- obviously he had a bad first half -- but put up the things he's done the second half and do the things he's being accused of doing. "As far as being a teammate, you guys were here when there was a question of whether he was going to be sent out. And there were 15 players waiting to find out that supported him. ... "As far as being a hard guy to coach, there's not a guy in that locker room who hasn't had a disagreement with a coach at one time about something -- be it positioning, be it where his hands need to be at the plate, or the grip on the baseball -- No. 1 for reinforcement why it's going to work. "Now, as far as the possible trade, there's not a guy in that clubhouse who can't get traded. Not a guy. I just want to make sure everybody understands, we're behind Ike Davis 100 percent. I don't want this to ever be a defamation on his character. He's a standup guy. As a matter of fact, he speaks the truth above and beyond the need for it."

Takeaways:

� Ike up late watching porn.

� That weird blinking thing he does as he's about to bat is to clear his head from all the bad advice he's getting from Hudgens.

� Whispers about Terry and his "ability to communicate" will be posted by Rubin tomorrow.

[Edgy MD]

G-Fafif quoting Terry Collins wrote: "Now, as far as the possible trade, there's not a guy in that clubhouse who can't get traded. "

"Hi, I'm Jason Bay! You may remember me from such movies as... Omar's
Folly and... The Guy Who Couldn't Get Traded!"

[TransMonk]

The fact that someone in the Mets org said any of these things regarding Davis is embarrassing.

Jeez.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Did you ever see two scoreboards so close together? It's uglier than
my slash lines. Me, I might've gone for one big wraparound
curvilinear scoreboard if the scoreboard absolutely hadda go there.

[Frayed Knot]

TransMonk wrote: The fact that someone in the Mets org said any of these things regarding Davis is embarrassing.

If you'll note Rubin's reporting it does say 'baseball source' and not the more usual 'team source' - implying that maybe these comments aren't coming from within.
On the other hand, there's not much to be gained for someone outside the organization to say anything less than positive about Ike so maybe they are.

I have no doubt that someone fed Adam this info (he's not going to just make stuff like this up folks), I just don't want to jump to conclusions about who it might be.
That they're contemplating dealing him (or anyone!!) over the off-season shouldn't be a surprise. What's causing these 'he's straying off the reservation' comments is a bit more intriguing but I don't know quite what to make of them. It's not like it helps the NYM org to make these public either.

[ashie62]

Yuppers to you and Spitter.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The fact that someone in the Mets org said any of these things regarding Davis is embarrassing. If you'll note Rubin's reporting it does say 'baseball source' and not the more usual 'team source' - implying that maybe these comments aren't coming from within. On the other hand, there's not much to be gained for someone outside the organization to say anything less than positive about Ike so maybe they are.

Yeah, but, it'd be odd if a non-team source fed him info that would lead him to write:

The Mets are disappointed with Davis' unwillingness to make changes based on coaching advice. Although he is personable and by no means a troublemaker, they also worry about his impact on other young players in social settings away from the ballpark.

emphasis added.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Zvon wrote: smg58 wrote: I don't like it when people associated with the Mets say negative things publicly about players on the team. That's poison. I agree, this is bad stuff. Personally I think Rubins just trying to stir up some shit.

So do I. Because "The Mets suck" stories are becoming rather gauche.

TransMonk wrote: The fact that someone in the Mets org said any of these things regarding Davis is embarrassing. Jeez.

A far cry from "good hitter, shitty team".

[batmagadanleadoff]

Are the Mets sliming Ike Davis now, too?

By Howard Megdal
10:51 am Sep. 19, 2012

It was a familiar sight: a Mets player, surrounded by reporters, defending himself from criticism that came from the team employing him. This time, the player was Ike Davis, the 25-year-old first baseman who has been one of the few feel-good stories of the Mets' disastrous second half. Davis had struggled mightily in the season's first two months, dealing with the twin handicaps of returning after missing most of 2011, and a case of Valley Fever. But since early June, Davis had hit like an elite first baseman, and hopes for his 2013 and beyond are bright. ESPN New York's Adam Rubin reported on Tuesday morning that the Mets were looking to trade Davis this offseason to make room for miscast outfielder Lucas Duda at first base. And not content with merely making the baseball argument, the Mets apparently found it necessary to either tell Rubin, or the "baseball source" Rubin cited, that Davis stays out too late and doesn't respond well to coaching, either. At best, this was information that the Mets ought to have kept to themselves, lest they drive down Davis' trade value. At worst, this was a smear put out by the Mets to pave the way publicly for the trading of one of their few remaining popular players. The move probably should be patented by the Mets. They did it to Jose Reyes back in 2009, after misdiagnosing his injury, leading Reyes to have to conduct an emotional press conference at his locker defending his own toughness and desire. Naturally, an ill-advised comeback bid that September, inexplicably geared toward playing the final weekend of a lost season, resulted in further injury and surgery. With Carlos Beltran in 2010, the ire was public, including a conference call weighing legal options against Beltran for following the advice of multiple doctors and having his knee surgically repaired. And lest you think this is some kind of pre-Sandy Alderson routine, witness the efforts to convince David Wright to play through a pinky injury this April, complete with anonymous leak to the Daily News tying Wright's future contract options to his ability to prove he isn't "injury-prone". Most famously, of course, was Fred Wilpon himself, finding perceived weaknesses in the games of Wright, Beltran and Reyes, who were the three players most responsible for making the Mets a good team from 2006-2008. The point isn't that Ike Davis shouldn't be traded under any circumstances, though the difficulty in finding a trading partner who can improve the Mets through a deal for prospects, or better yet, a young, cost-controlled outfielder, may not be so easy. Instead, the Mets have managed to denigrate one of their own players, making their task even harder, providing a reminder to Wright and R.A. Dickey, both free agents after 2013, of what awaits them if they decide to stay in New York. As for Davis, who let's remember, missed most of 2011 in large part because the Mets misdiagnosed his injury repeatedly, and who has publicly credited the coaches for helping him to turn around his 2012 season, he may well be out the door this winter. It would be nice to think this will only happen because the Mets can improve a roster in need through trading him; sadly, there are other, cost-related reasons for such a move that are the likelier impetus. But perhaps the routine simply means that Ike Davis has arrived. After all, the Mets tend only to smear their very best.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2012/09/6537276/are-mets-sliming-ike-davis-now-too

[Edgy MD]

He slimed me.

I like how Megdal starts with a question, and by the end, having presented nothing definitive in pursuit of it, states the answer as fact.

And by "like," I mean to say that his brand of play-journalism "just sucks."

[HahnSolo]

I guess it is possible that somebody else wrote the headline.

[Edgy MD]

Adam Rubin wrote: The Mets will consider trading Ike Davis this offseason as a way to upgrade other areas of the team and open a spot for Lucas Duda at his natural position, a baseball source told ESPNNewYork.com.

Howard Megdal wrote: ESPN New York's Adam Rubin reported on Tuesday morning that the Mets were looking to trade Davis this offseason to make room for miscast outfielder Lucas Duda at first base.

Then he proceeds to report (perfectly valid) speculation that the "baseball source" has been deliberately fed a story by the Mets (not even a Mets source, but "the Mets") as a clear and established fact.

It's like his cause his so righteous, that there's no ethics he's going to allow to stand in his way.

[batmagadanleadoff]

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Megdal's been grinding that axe so long it's probably a penknife by now.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Two notes here:

Jon Heyman speculates that the Red Sox might be interested in Ike Davis after Sox scouts are noticed at last night's Mets-Marlins game.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20432516/mets-ike-davis-could-be-a-trade-target-for-red-sox-who-need-a-first-baseman

excerpt:

MIAMI -- Could Ike Davis be a Red Sox trade target? The Red Sox will be looking for a first baseman this winter after sending Adrian Gonzalez to the Dodgers in late August and seeing placeholder James Loney continue to struggle offensively. The Mets haven't ruled out a trade for Davis, who will be arbitration elgible for the first time. Curiously, two Red Sox scouts -- maybe the only two scouts in attendance -- were at the Mets-Marlins game Monday night, and it's known the Red Sox seek help in the outfield, the rotation and at first base. The Mets don't have any outfielders to trade, not [sic] do they have an abundance of starting pitchers. Davis could be an obvious potential fit.

_______________________

G-Fafif wrote: Rubin reports the Mets may be mulling a choice, and it could be the unpopular one per the poll results here and, one would guess, sentiment everywhere. The Mets will consider trading Ike Davis this offseason as a way to upgrade other areas of the team and open a spot for Lucas Duda at his natural position, a baseball source told ESPNNewYork.com. While that does not guarantee Davis will be moved, it at least is a very plausible option. Davis should be marketable despite a slow start because he is a 30-homer threat with the potential for above-average fielding at first base. The Mets are disappointed with Davis' unwillingness to make changes based on coaching advice. Although he is personable and by no means a troublemaker, they also worry about his impact on other young players in social settings away from the ballpark. The danger in trading Davis would be that there are few doubts about his ability to perform as a starter at the major league level. There is no guarantee Duda would perform at that level. And certainly he could not perform at the same level in the field. So being comfortable trading Davis would mean trusting the evaluation skills of the front office that Duda would thrive at his natural position. The Mets recently have been using Duda at first base against left-handers over Davis. Personally, trade 'em all.

I may be giving the Mets too much credit here, but I wonder whether the Ike Davis smear of two weeks ago might be a disinformation campaign. Perhaps there's some interest in Duda and the Mets want to make it appear as if they'd rather keep Duda over Davis in order to extract more value from the interested team. Who knows?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can't imagine keeping Duda over Davis. Just... can't... imagine...

Sandy said something the other day about how the Mets were starved for power in 2012, and it doesn't make sense to trade the guy who has 31 homers. I hope that that really reflects what the Mets are thinking here.