Don't trade Reyes

[Ceetar]

The biggest thing the Mets need is a starting pitcher. Because everyone needs more starting pitching. But it'll likely be Santana-Dickey-Niese-Pelfrey as mainstays, barring injury/lackofrecovery. So it's not like they're out shopping for a bucket load of them, and that's not even counting Gee. Or unknowns like Schwinden or Cohoon being ready. Gotta address RF, but there are internal options of various degrees of potential, and plenty of ways to go. 2B is really looking like between Murphy/Turner/Tejada one of those guys might actually be workable there, at least in the sense of "we don't have to deal with this right now"

[Guest Edgy DC]

metirish wrote: I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap.

I think we'd be better slicing it business-wise a la Grimmy and staying away from that sort of speculative stuff. Let's not get ourselves too worked up. We're on a winning streak.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: metirish wrote: I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap. I think we'd be better slicing it business-wise a la Grimmy and staying away from that sort of speculative stuff. Let's not get ourselves too worked up. We're on a winning streak.

4-2 over the next 6 gets us back to .500 to play the Braves. Angel Pagan is your cleanup hitter. let's get this party started.

[Frayed Knot]

I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap.

I think that whole Wilponian rant in 'The New Yorker' was merely him just trying to impress writer Toobin that he wasn't just
some doddering owner, but rather an ex-player who knows baseball. 'Look, just because we hire a GM for this kind of
evaluation stuff that doesn't mean I'm incapable of reaching such decisions myself, he seems to be saying; 'I know the
difference between good players and superstars and also between those who deserve top-shelf contracts and not ... '

In short, I don't think what he said really has any bearing on what eventually happens.


The outside stories of why the Mets are going to deal Reyes are mostly based on several assumptions:

1) the team doesn't have the money -- logical, though largely speculative even if it does get passed off as hard fact by those
who have no hard facts

2) the Alderson crew are strict 'Moneyball' adherents who are going to look at Reyes's (usually) pedestrian OBA and run for the
hills -- stupidly and hopelessly uninformed

3) this team can't and won't be good for at least the next decade so blowing it up is the only choice -- Absurd. "Experts" read
teams incorrectly (both ways) all the time even within the season that's currently going on, so this notion that they know what's
going to occur even in the relatively short future is simply arrogant.

[soupcan]

Reyes is the player I had been waiting all of my Met fan life to arrive.

He is everything a fan could want. Good guy, great player, home-grown.

I've been so irritated at the prospect that that they may trade/not re-sign him. Especially seeing the numbers he's been putting up this year.

If he does get traded or they do not make a sincere effort to retain him, I could see myself walking away from the Mets unless and until there would be a new ownership structure in place.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It wasn't too many weeks ago that the going wisdom was that this Mets team was going to be historically terrible.

Wisdom is not in rushing to claim you know. Wisdom is siezing the unknown and humbly and carefully shaving away the nonsense to find the knowable within.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

If he does get traded or they do not make a sincere effort to retain him, I could see myself walking away from the Mets unless and until there would be a new ownership structure in place.

That's the referendum Olney's talking about. Whatever the facts are this is going to come down to that -- thanks largely to the Wilpons' ability to make a giant clusterfuck out of anything.

[soupcan]

That's a radical statement from me too.

I've been disappointed in a lot of things the Mets have done over the years but I never considered 86-ing them (see what I did there?).

Just the fact that I said it, is a huge deal. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool fan - as are we all, otherwise why the hell would we be 'here'? - and I spend a lot of money on that team. For me to consider this...? Well let's just say management should take what Olney said seriously.

[Gwreck]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't have all of the salaries at my fingertips, but I think there's a way to do the math that will make Jose affordable.

Player	2011 Salary	2012 Salary
Already Signed
Santana	$22.5M	$24M
Bay	$16M	$16M
Wright	$14M	$15M
Dickey	$2.25M	$4.25M
Carrasco	$1.2M	$1.2M
Arbitration
Pelfrey	$3.925M	$5.5M (?)
Pagan	$3.5M	$5M (?)
Cheap Returnees
Niese	$.452M	$.5M
Parnell	$.4335M	$.475M
Davis	$.432M	$.475M
Murphy	$.422M	$.475M
Thole	$.42M	$.475M
Beato	$.414M	$.475M
Gee	$.4M	$.45M
Turner	$.4M	$.45M
Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced
Capuano or Extra Starter	$1.5M	$2M
Paulino or Backup Catcher	$1.35	$1.5M
Hairston or Backup Outfielder	$1.1M	$1.25M
Byrdak or Lefty	$.9M	$1.2M
Harris or Backup	$.8M	$1M
Not Returning
Beltran	$18.5M	---
Igarashi	$1.75M	---
Young	$1.1M	---
Perez	$12M	---
Castillo	$6M	---
Matthews Jr.	$1M	---
Plus You'll Need To Fill
Another 4-5 Spots	---	$7M
TOTALS	$135.1485*	$82.85M
Which Leaves us to Consider
Reyes	$11M	???
Rodriguez	$11.5M	$17.5M

*includes Reyes and Rodriguez

[TransMonk]

Affordable Jose in 2012 is one thing, affordable Jose in 2016 or beyond is another...especially when we're having this same conversation about Wright in a year or so.

I'm not saying they can't afford him...I'm just saying it's not quite as simple as estimating a budget for next year.

I want him back like everyone else, but it certainly isn't as black and white as the figures above.

[Ceetar]

Extend Wright now* too and then announce them both as co-captains.

*when he returns.

[Fman99]

We're paying Gary Mathews Jr. a million dollars this year? Hope he kissed them first. Fucking A.

[Vic Sage]

It wasn't too many weeks ago that the going wisdom was that this Mets team was going to be historically terrible.

i don't know about historically terrible, but even after this little uptick, they're still not good. I think my prediction of 75 wins is still in the right ballpark.

Wisdom is not in rushing to claim you know. Wisdom is siezing the unknown and humbly and carefully shaving away the nonsense to find the knowable within

.

stop eating at chinese restaurants. the fortune cookies are getting to you.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're going to have to trust me then.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Marty Noble weighs in. (But I think he dozed off while typing the last paragraph.)

Reyes trade would impede Mets' recovery Shortstop could bring impressive haul, but value greatest in NY By Marty Noble / MLB.com NEW YORK -- As the Mets hover at or near .500, the chances of them finishing this thus-far schizophrenic season with Jose Reyes in their employ aren't half bad. Their mercurial shortstop has sped to the lead of the batting race and played his best baseball since 2006, forcing the club's GPS to recalculate. The Mets must determine his value and decide whether it is prudent to deal him for pieces of an unclear future. With little input from general manager Sandy Alderson, the rest of us concluded that Reyes would be joining the e-Mets -- erstwhile Mets -- at some point in July. The possibility existed for sure, but Alderson -- his poker face in a jar that he keeps by the door -- gave no indication of his leaning or whether he was leaning at all. This much we know: The general manager has witnessed such superlative performance for most of the team's 65 games that his perceptions of Reyes must have changed -- from whatever they were to something they were not. Again, we must speak vaguely because Alderson does. From this press-box perspective, Reyes, the Mets generally and Terry Collins unquestionably, have exceeded expectations. No Mets bandwagon has been built or occupied yet, and none should be at this point. The road separating the 32-33 record the team carries into its Monday night game against the Pirates and a 162-game record that represents genuine progress is long and potentially treacherous. But through all the injuries, growing pains, financial uncertainty and the general disorder inherited from the previous regime, a glimmer is visible. Perhaps these Dark Ages won't last quite as long as feared and won't be quite so dark. For every game David Wright and Ike Davis are unavailable, Ruben Tejada gains the best kind of experience -- on-the-job training. And for each inning Johan Santana misses, Dillon Gee polishes the notion that offspeed pitching works. And more conspicuously than any of that, Reyes, the ultimate triple threat, plays the game as if he embodies the skills of Rey Ordonez, Mookie Wilson and John Olerud, and the high-octane additive that fueled Wally Backman. He is a wonderful player again. His value to other clubs has seemingly increased; his value to the Mets has seemingly soared and added new elements to the "Do we deal him?" discussion. If Alderson and his band of vanguard evaluators see the performances of Tejada, Gee, Davis, Jon Niese, Josh Thole, Angel Pagan and Justin Turner as indications of genuine potential, and if they sense that Santana, Wright and Jason Bay can be the players they were, then the Mets are not the fourth-place contenders they appeared to be when Ollie Perez lockered among them. And Reyes can't be traded or allowed to leave. Davis, Tejada, Wright and Reyes make a nice infield, not great but certainly more than representative. As a foursome, they are young enough to have futures that extend beyond 2014, and enough differences in age exist among them that a four-at-once overhaul is unlikely. We don't yet know enough about Thole, Gee, Niese or Bobby Parnell. And to ask for all of them to reach their potential when Reyes, Wright, Santana and Bay are prospering is to ask for a encore of 1969. That summer was characterized as a Miracle. Moreover, we can't begin to know all the fiscal obstacles facing Alderson from the Wilpon family's diminished treasury. A future without Reyes would add to the obstacles. It will be a challenge with him. Going on without him -- notice it doesn't say moving forward without him -- seems implausible, a giant step backward for the sake of taking several smaller steps forward. The Mets could play for another 25 years and not have a player with such skills on their roster. Reyes, even more than Wright, is an attraction. The club ought to look to its past to see the impact of an attraction. The Mets have had precious few special attractions in their nearly 50 seasons -- Tom Seaver, Dave Kingman, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ordonez and Mike Piazza. Each of them provided a better-than-average chance for a spectators to see something extraordinary, something worth a dozen replays. Reyes warrants a place on that short list. In that regard, his value is greater to the Mets than to other clubs, even though his performance to date has to have enhanced his value to others. If the Reds had interest in mid-May, what do they think now? Imagine the Reds of Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips with a player as dynamic as Reyes added. How would the Mets read that added interest? What would their price be? How would other clubs regard Alderson's image of being an astute roster/payroll manager? No club wants to mortgage its future, even for a fleet, 28-year-old, switch-hitting shortstop with an exceptional arm, above average glove, untold and contagious energy and the ability to dominate an opponent. Perhaps none of that will develop. Perhaps the Mets will dismiss the notion of dealing the second-most-talented player -- to Strawberry -- they have developed and allow Reyes to be part, a focal point, of their next period of success. Perhaps the dynamo they know is...

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Gwreck wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't have all of the salaries at my fingertips, but I think there's a way to do the math that will make Jose affordable. Player 2011 Salary 2012 Salary Already Signed Santana $22.5M $24M Bay $16M $16M Wright $14M $15M Dickey $2.25M $4.25M Carrasco $1.2M $1.2M Arbitration Pelfrey $3.925M $5.5M (?) Pagan $3.5M $5M (?) Cheap Returnees Niese $.452M $.5M Parnell $.4335M $.475M Davis $.432M $.475M Murphy $.422M $.475M Thole $.42M $.475M Beato $.414M $.475M Gee $.4M $.45M Turner $.4M $.45M Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced Capuano or Extra Starter $1.5M $2M Paulino or Backup Catcher $1.35 $1.5M Hairston or Backup Outfielder $1.1M $1.25M Byrdak or Lefty $.9M $1.2M Harris or Backup $.8M $1M Not Returning Beltran $18.5M --- Igarashi $1.75M --- Young $1.1M --- Perez $12M --- Castillo $6M --- Matthews Jr. $1M --- Plus You'll Need To Fill Another 4-5 Spots --- $7M TOTALS $135.1485* $82.85M Which Leaves us to Consider Reyes $11M ??? Rodriguez $11.5M $17.5M *includes Reyes and Rodriguez

Didn't see this before, but the ways you remind me of Doug Pappas is scary.

[G-Fafif]

Marty Noble wrote: then the Mets are not the fourth-place contenders they appeared to be when Ollie Perez lockered among them.

Marvelous phrasing.

The Mets could play for another 25 years and not have a player with such skills on their roster.

Struck me as exaggeration until I realized they've played 25 years and not had a player with such skills on their roster.

[Frayed Knot]

Nice to see a writer say publicly - and right up top no less - that the inevitability of a mid-season Reyes trade has always been opinion passed off as fact even as it was never built on anything other than speculation.

[ashie62]

Have the Mets breathed even a hint of what they may do about Reyes? the end of July is not that far off..

[Ceetar]

Ashie62 wrote: Have the Mets breathed even a hint of what they may do about Reyes? the end of July is not that far off..

I think Alderson said yesterday they haven't not gotten to the point of talking or something wit hthe agent, who's overseas atm?

[Benjamin Grimm]

My hunch is that they may get the ball rolling once the Einhorn money is official. (Hope there's no "setback" on that front!)

[metirish]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My hunch is that they may get the ball rolling once the Einhorn money is official. (Hope there's no "setback" on that front!)

This deal should be official end of June right?

[Ceetar]

From a PR standpoint, how about Reyes just before the All-Star Game. Then on a national stage the Mets get talked about as being loyal to their fanbase, keeping one of the best players in the game, and on some level dispell some of the 'too broke to compete' stuff.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is on Jawge's box!") Getting it done for it's own sake is going to be hard enough.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is in Jawge's box!")

Too bad Rawjah isn't in Jawge's box right now.

[metsmarathon]

+1

[metirish]

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is in Jawge's box!") Too bad Rawjah isn't in Jawge's box right now.

damn .....lol

[ashie62]

That is hilarious!!!!

I'm hoping Einhorn squeezes Wilpon before signing the paper and says "Oh, this is predicated on making a real offer to Jose."

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is on Jawge's box!") Getting it done for it's own sake is going to be hard enough.

True. I just mean getting it done by the All-Star Game though, so we dont' have to sit through the trade rumors at the game whenever Reyes gets cozy with another star.

[Guest attgig]

Gwreck wrote: Player 2011 Salary 2012 Salary Already Signed Santana $22.5M $24M Bay $16M $16M Wright $14M $15M Dickey $2.25M $4.25M Carrasco $1.2M $1.2M Arbitration Pelfrey $3.925M $5.5M (?) Pagan $3.5M $5M (?) Cheap Returnees Niese $.452M $.5M Parnell $.4335M $.475M Davis $.432M $.475M Murphy $.422M $.475M Thole $.42M $.475M Beato $.414M $.475M Gee $.4M $.45M Turner $.4M $.45M Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced Capuano or Extra Starter $1.5M $2M Paulino or Backup Catcher $1.35 $1.5M Hairston or Backup Outfielder $1.1M $1.25M Byrdak or Lefty $.9M $1.2M Harris or Backup $.8M $1M Not Returning Beltran $18.5M --- Igarashi $1.75M --- Young $1.1M --- Perez $12M --- Castillo $6M --- Matthews Jr. $1M --- Plus You'll Need To Fill Another 4-5 Spots --- $7M TOTALS $135.1485* $82.85M Which Leaves us to Consider Reyes $11M ??? Rodriguez $11.5M $17.5M *includes Reyes and Rodriguez

interesting in that they can still sign krod, and still be at 100mil. I always assumed krod would take us to the max budget.