Re-Sign Reyes NOW!!!!

[Vic Sage]

I say well established because it's based, not only on his 2011 batting champ campaign, but on Reyes's last six seasons (06-11).

No it's not. Our "MVP" evaluation of his talent rests entirely on 2 great full seasons out of 9 years he's played to date: 2006 and 2008, with a great 2011 marred (to some extent) by missing 1/4 of season. These great years are supported by 2 other good (non-MVP type) full seasons in 2005 and 2007, and some decent and less-than-decent partial years, all well short of "MVP all-star caliber". So, no i don't think that its actually "established" that he's a perennial MVP all-star type player. I think he has been that intermittently, and there is no guarantee that paying him like one going forward will change his inconsistency. That's why i suggested a proposal that only paid him like a superstar when he was healthy enough to play every day.

He's still only 28 and won't turn 29 until about the middle of next season. And if you believe that a baseball player's prime begins at 30, as many do, well then Reyes' prime won't begin until ... ah, do the math.

i don't think chronological age is the risk factor here. sure, the next contract buys him from age 29-34 or 35, and those are (theoretically) still productive years, even if just past the prime ages of 25-29 (nobody thinks a player's prime begins at 30... at least not since the juice era ended). But insofar as his game is his legs, and legs are the first to go, and his have been going consistently, with his last 3 years all marred by injuries (to a greater or lesser degree), I don't think it's AGE that is at issue with him.

But while realizing the injuries shouldn't be "discounted", you then go on to do so, in effect, by blaming any potential met failure to resign him on a pre-ordained secret strategy to NOT sign him due to their poverty (or penuriousness), rather than a rational decision not to over-invest in a high-risk/high-reward player coming off 3 consecutive seasons of significant leg injuries, who has been a "superstar" in 3 years out of 9, but wants to be guaranteed superstar salary over many years to come.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Guest

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Please do less.

Moderate this. (Please).

[Edgy MD]

I don't know what that means. I guess "no" is the bottom line.

[ashie62]

Is Jose Reyes worth the pissing contest?

[smg58]

I'd argue that the prime of a player whose game revolves around speed is more likely to end at 30 than begin.

[ashie62]

Scroll on ESPN says Reyes not likely to give Mets a discount and wants to play for a contender.

[Ceetar]

That anyone is arguing that a legendary Met who's barely, if at all, middle-aged in baseball terms and who's one of the most exciting players to watch and extremely talented should _not_ be a Met is just ridiculous.

It's really very very simple. Either you're a professional baseball team that wants to build a winning team, or you're not. If there's a scenario where having Jose Reyes on your team is a bad idea..then I dunno that I can watch baseball anymore.


Even if Joker was holding Jose at gunpoint, I'd still say the chances of Reyes being healthy in 2012 are vastly greater than the chance that Ruben Tejada even gives us anything close to what Reyes does.

[Edgy MD]

The scenario is whether he's worth the price, or whether, on the other hand, if the money he'll cost is better invested elsewhere.

And that's not so simple.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: The scenario is whether he's worth the price, or whether, on the other hand, if the money he'll cost is better invested elsewhere. And that's not so simple.

I disagree. I'm no the GM/owner. I don't care how the finances are. They've been making a point of it not being impacted by Madoff..well fine, keep great/loved players.

[Edgy MD]

I didn't think you were the GM or the owner. But you're clearly speaking to the actions and choices of the management.

If the reality that teams can't always afford everybody we want them to sign is enough to make you quit, then it is. But it's nothing new.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: I disagree. I'm no the GM/owner. I don't care how the finances are. They've been making a point of it not being impacted by Madoff..well fine, keep great/loved players.

Going beyond 5 years guaranteed at the annual salary we're talking about is a BAD business move...no matter how exciting Jose is at 28. THAT is the deal breaker.

I think if Jose were looking for a short-term deal for the most $$$, the Mets would have him signed by now. But paying 34-35 year old shortstops ~$20M is going to handcuff whatever team offers that kind of deal down the line.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: I think if Jose were looking for a short-term deal for the most $$$, the Mets would have him signed by now. But paying 34-35 year old shortstops ~$20M is going to handcuff whatever team offers that kind of deal down the line.

Says who? I don't know if that's true. Especially for Reyes, who likely will still be a pretty damn good player. 35 isn't 55. And winning in the interim will raise payroll. ideally the Mets will only have ~40ish invested in what may be overpaid players in 2016, and Wright and Reyes should still be productive. building wisely _around_ them in the meantime, as well as being successful, makes it much less likely that it'll handcuff the Mets.

[ashie62]

Are you optimistic or just enjoy being stubborn?

[Benjamin Grimm]

He made the same vacuous argument about Frankie Rodriguez. Ceetar seems to think that if a player is good, it doesn't matter how much you pay him.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: Says who?

Me.

Ceetar wrote: I don't know if that's true. Especially for Reyes, who likely will still be a pretty damn good player.

His legs (and excitement) will be the first to go. There aren't a lot of 35 year old base stealers who leg out triples. His average (I know how you feel) defense will decline as his legs go, too.

Ceetar wrote: 35 isn't 55.

When you're comparing MLBers with average Joes, I would say they are mighty comparable.

Ceetar wrote: And winning in the interim will raise payroll. ideally the Mets will only have ~40ish invested in what may be overpaid players in 2016, and Wright and Reyes should still be productive. building wisely _around_ them in the meantime, as well as being successful, makes it much less likely that it'll handcuff the Mets.

But they have only been marginally successful with Wright and Reyes in the past 7 when they were underpaying them. They brought in Pedro and Carlos and Johan and Bay, but for what? Calling baseball personnel moves wise is usually only something you can do in the past tense.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He made the same vacuous argument about Frankie Rodriguez. Ceetar seems to think that if a player is good, it doesn't matter how much you pay him.

no i didn't, and for the most part, it doesn't matter.

[batmagadanleadoff]

smg58 wrote: I'd argue that the prime of a player whose game revolves around speed is more likely to end at 30 than begin.

Baseball players' overall peak (that's peak, not prime years) is at about 30; a tad earlier for triples; a tad later for walk rate, among other stats. Given this, it's not unreasonable for a player's prime years to be his early thirties: if his 31-32 years are closer in performance to his 30/peak than his 28-29 years, than his prime would be 30-32. Of course it'll be years before we can identify Reyes' peak or prime, or whether Reyes' next deal will have been worth it. I agree that Reyes might have already peaked, if that's what you're suggesting, not that I really know for sure.. All I'm saying is that I believe that some owner is going to lavish him with an amount of money that the Mets can't match. What I've been saying all along is that I believe that the Mets won't be able to retain Reyes even if they privately want to go all Mo Vaughn on him.

[dgwphotography]

I'm already sick of this - let's just shit or get off the pot.

If this off-season is going to be a daily dose of will he return or not, wake me up in April.

[MFS62]

We all have to remember what an emotional roller-coaster it means to be a Mets fan.
That tradition tells us two things will happen:
1) The Mets will re-sign Reyes.
2) The very next day, MLB will put his thyroid medication on the banned substances list.

Later

[Ceetar]

MFS62 wrote: We all have to remember what an emotional roller-coaster it means to be a Mets fan. That tradition tells us two things will happen: 1) The Mets will re-sign Reyes. 2) The very next day, MLB will put his thyroid medication on the banned substances list. Later

funny, but luckily he's not taking medication. :-D

dgwphotography wrote: I'm already sick of this - let's just shit or get off the pot. If this off-season is going to be a daily dose of will he return or not, wake me up in April.

yeah..while it could end tomorrow, seems unlikely to be a quick thing. I really hope afterwards they call up Wright and get that extension done too. Don't want to have to put up with this again next year.

[Centerfield]

Latest rumors have the Marlins threatening to go all Tom Hicks on Reyes.

I know these are just rumors, and writers want to make it seem like he is leaving, but this does not make me happy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm coming to accept that he'll be gone, and if it doesn't work out that way, I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

[metirish]

I keep opening this thread hoping that the latest poster is about to tell us that Jose has signed with the Mets.

[TransMonk]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm coming to accept that he'll be gone, and if it doesn't work out that way, I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

I adopted that line of thinking earlier this season. Now I'm just hoping that he'll leave the division so we don't have to see him 19 times a year.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: I keep opening this thread hoping that the latest poster is about to tell us that Jose has signed with the Mets.

That deserves it's own thread.


But that's the feeling i get everytime the Mets send me a press release.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And it's a bit of a letdown to find out that the press release is about blue paint.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And it's a bit of a letdown to find out that the press release is about blue paint.

holiday food drive this time.

[ashie62]

Heyman has the Brewers, Giants and Marlins pursuing Reyes. Thankfully its only Heyman.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Giants loading for bear. They traded for Melky F Cabrera yesterday

[Vic Sage]

TransMonk wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm coming to accept that he'll be gone, and if it doesn't work out that way, I'll be very pleasantly surprised. I adopted that line of thinking earlier this season. Now I'm just hoping that he'll leave the division so we don't have to see him 19 times a year.

well, that means he won't actually play against us more than 12-14 times a year. And if he's had a good season, we might not see him at all at the end.