Takahashi to Whore Himself

[metirish]

2 years $7 million, club option for year 3

[Guest Edgy DC]

Two years, 4 miillion, plus:

[list:1347ru1f][*:1347ru1f]$500K if he starts 20 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f]
[*:1347ru1f]$1 million if he starts 40 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f]
[*:1347ru1f]$1 million if he finishes 40 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f]
[*:1347ru1f]$300K if he makes an All Star team.[/*:m:1347ru1f][/list:u:1347ru1f]

[Frayed Knot]

Years: no more than two - and if there's an option for a third thrown in it should be in the club's hands not the players or via some sort of vesting deal
Dollars: I'm usually less concerned about this but, if for two seasons, shouldn't exceed $10mil total and I'd prefer it under 8

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'd maybe go as high as 1/3... or 2/5.5.

He was VERY usable in relief, somewhat less so as a starter... and there are other options for a lefty reliever/swingman. (How much is Darren O charging, again?)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Frayed Knot wrote: Years: no more than two - and if there's an option for a third thrown in it should be in the club's hands not the players or via some sort of vesting deal Dollars: I'm usually less concerned about this but, if for two seasons, shouldn't exceed $10mil total and I'd prefer it under 8

Pretty impressive for a guy without a role.

[duan]

thanks for joining in folks.

[metirish]

duan wrote: thanks for joining in folks.

some free cheese might close this deal Duan

[Centerfield]

$10 million? Seriously?

I wouldn't go more than $5 million over 2 years for Tak.

[duan]

I'd maybe go as high as 1/3... or 2/5.5. He was VERY usable in relief, somewhat less so as a starter... and there are other options for a lefty reliever/swingman. (How much is Darren O charging, again?)

Good comp - Oliver's better track record perhaps undermined a little by his age and his inability to

Reliever Darren Oliver's perfect eighth inning in Wednesday's 11-7 win over Detroit earned him a nice little bonus: A $3.25 million contract for 2011. The outing was Oliver's 59th of the season and triggered the option year in his deal with the Rangers. He signed a one-year deal worth $3 million in the winter. The deal included a $3.25 million option if he reached 59 appearances, his average over the previous three years. Had he not reached the vesting option threshold, the Rangers could have bought out the deal for 2011 for $500,000.

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/09/darren-oliver-pitches-an-innin.html

[Frayed Knot]

Except that Oliver turned 40 last month and is a 60-70 IP/yr pitcher
Takahashi is 4-1/2 years younger, nearly doubled D.O.'s IPs this season, plus has his Japanese track record to sell.

The '10 & 8' guidelines I put up earlier are probably too high re-looking at them so maybe 8 & 6 are more like it.
I'd be surprised if he accepts below 6-for-2 in lieu of testing the waters - although having him walk isn't the worst thing either.

[Guest attgig]

1 year 3 mil.
vesting option for second year if he reaches 20+starts or 50+apperances at 3.5 mil.
club option for 3rd year. @ 5 mil with a 500k buyout.


reasoning:
he served a good role for us this year with the shakyness in our rotation & pen.
our rotation is bound to be just as shaky as we're not having johan to start, and have the same questionmarks with the other spots (can dickey be just as good, will pelf ever put in a whole solid year, will neise continue to progress. is ollie seriously our #5).
our pen is going to be lacking a loogy if feliciano isn't resigned. sure we can find someone else, but 1 reliable lefty in the pen isn't going to cut it.

he comes in for 1 year at a reasonable price.
second year kicks in with a raise considering he filling vital parts of the team, and at the minimum, can be an effective reliever.
third year. buyout makes it 1) a more attractive offer upping it to essentially a 4 mil 2nd year.
2) if he ends up being an effective #5, a $5mil back end guy isn't that bad of a deal.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: Except that Oliver turned 40 last month and is a 60-70 IP/yr pitcher Takahashi is 4-1/2 years younger, nearly doubled D.O.'s IPs this season, plus has his Japanese track record to sell.

He also put up an ERA a run-and-a-half higher, and let on a lot more baserunners. Oliver's put up similar numbers to those he posted in 2010 for 3-4 years running, and has a longer track record against better competition.

I'm not saying I'd rather have Oliver (necessarily); I'm just saying, it's a fair comp-- Oliver's age is a push with Takahashi's only having one year of performance at the Major League level as far as hedgeworthy traits go.

I wouldn't go above 6-for-2. I like him, but I wouldn't slit my wrists if he walked over that. Frankly, I think we've seen his ceiling.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Right now, I'm indifferent on whether Tak re-signs with the Mets.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

NY Times saying talks are done, and he's gone.

[G-Fafif]

Rubin confirms (though not what he means about Backman).

[G-Fafif]

From Waldstein:

Hisanori Takahashi�s time with the Mets is over after one successful season, and he will seek another team in free agency beginning Saturday. The Mets and Takahashi�s agent, Arn Tellem, were expected to announce later Friday that they could not come to an agreement on his contract, and the Mets will be obligated by the terms of his contract to release him. Takahashi was asking for a multi-year contract with a value of between $4 and $6 million annually, and the Mets were willing to give him only one year. The team�s initial offer was for $1.5 million, with incentives that could allow him to earn close to $3 million. The sides had until midnight Saturday morning to complete a deal. Without one, Takahashi becomes a free agent and, by rule, cannot re-sign with the Mets until May 15, ensuring that he will sign with another team.

BTW, Charlie Samuels bet this would happen.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I liked Takahashi as much as the next guy, maybe more, but I ain't into multiyear deals with finesse relievers.

[Fman99]

Good luck, we can always find another Takahashi.

[duan]

we'll probably never know know, but it looks like the Mets topped out at one year 3 million plus option and Takahashi bottomed at about 8 for two years.

Be interesting to see where he lands - the one weird thing about the process is it could well be that he gets a decent bit less in that the one team who had a real sense of him is now out of the game.

Anyway what's next on Sandy's list -
offering arb or not to free agentys?
tendering contracts?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I assume there's no reason Mets cannot go after him again, if either party grows disenchanted witht he alternatives.

[Frayed Knot]

I assume there's no reason Mets cannot go after him again, if either party grows disenchanted witht he alternatives.

Well, except for the rule that prevents the Mets - and only the Mets - from having to wait until after May 15th of next year to sign him again.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So I've read. But which rule is that, though? He's not arbitration eligible. And anyhow, I had understood that the May 15 rule on players denied an arbitraton offer was taken out in the last CBA.

This is a very unusuall situation, I'm gathering.

[Frayed Knot]

It starts with being unusual in that Taka was a rookie but at the same time had the power of a FA coming from Japan meaning he could have provisions put in his contract like the one where he couldn't be offered arbitration at the end of this season.

The May 15th provision apparently deals not with a team being unable to re-sign their lost FA until that date but with a team being unable to sign a player that they had, in effect, released prior to the FA period - a rule which probably exists to lessen the temptation for a team to release an arb-eligible player or one with an option strictly for purposes of inking him to a lesser contract than he was otherwise headed for.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the Mets are minus two players in the Sandy era.

[batmagadanleadoff]

According to the major leagues� Rule 8 (i) (2), any player who is released after midnight Aug. 31 and before the next opening day cannot sign a major league contract with the same team until May 15 the following year. He can sign a minor league contract, which Takahashi would probably not do, but cannot be called up to the majors until May 15.... The 8 (i) (2) rule, which has been in effect for many years, was designed to prevent teams from cutting players and then signing them back for less money.

The full article

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, the Mets are minurs two players in the Sandy era.

Stealth Contraction? is Alderson a sleeper agent of Selig?

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: According to the major leagues� Rule 8 (i) (2), any player who is released after midnight Aug. 31 and before the next opening day cannot sign a major league contract with the same team until May 15 the following year. He can sign a minor league contract, which Takahashi would probably not do, but cannot be called up to the majors until May 15.... The 8 (i) (2) rule, which has been in effect for many years, was designed to prevent teams from cutting players and then signing them back for less money. The full article

Right. There also used to be a rule that prevented a club who lost a FA from re-signing that player until the following May but that one was done away with. Taka's situation is different in that his ML service time alone doesn't get him FA status so he had the wording put into his deal where he could not be offered arb and, in effect, had to be released unless they came to some sort of immediate new contract. That release is what gets him his FA status this year and therefore the rule against his old team kicks in.
Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route.

[Ceetar]

I don't think they should've paid him 3 years, but I'm thinking maybe they should've considered is value not just as what he could bring to the Mets, but what he can't bring to the Phillies. A guy like Takahashi fits in perfectly there, and I just hope they don't realize it.

He also could end up on the Yankees, who he beat twice and probably have a slightly inflated opinion as to his worth.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route.

The Japanese imports are hybrids -- veterans really, but denominated as rookies because MLB defines a rookie by the amount of MLB experience only.

On a side note, I'm against incoming veteran imports like Ichiro and Hideo Nomo qualifying for the ROY award. It goes against the spirit of the award and the common-sense definition of "rookie". If it was up to me, I'd define "rookie", at least for purposes of the ROY award, based on professional rather than MLB experience.

[ashie62]

Is it time for a "Memories of Takahashi" Thread?